Is Alchemy better at PvE than Giant Melee?

• radionoise wrote on 2011-01-03 07:20

  Quote from Shanghai;274261:

  :x How about we talk of something that Golem requires? Preparation. It's annoying to create crystals, and you have to spam Cullin SMs to get crystals if you're lazy to make them. Unlike the Alchemist, all a Meleer needs is a one-time commitment to proffing up a weapon, and after that it's just repairs.

  
  
  It's not really as easy as a one-time commitment, though... like Jovo posted earlier, in order for a giant to match a golem it will take thousands of AP, skill-ranking, enchants and effort. Even after a few years of playing and maxing out everything, more enchants and skills will come out and you still have to maintain your current endgame gear despite natural decay.
  
  Endgame melee and range is something that requires utmost dedication... I understand mining and making snow golems isn't easy, but you can't discard a whole character's effort and build as a one-time payment either.
• User495 wrote on 2011-01-03 07:22
  Giant > Golem
  
  Main reason should be giants have no time limit
• jking012 wrote on 2011-01-03 09:05

  Quote from gentrone;274092:

  Alchemy is cheap (crystals) and really strong. However, it takes a lot of AP.
  
  I am yet to see a newbie Alchemist succeeding early in game, though. Most of the Alchemists I know have a melee or range background, so they provide enough AP to become proficient Alchemists. It drains Stam like hell, so I can see the relation there. I would say it's an end game build.
  
  However, watercannon is fairly strong against mid lvl SM's and dungeons, but as I said, you need something to back it up.

  
  
  In tarlach I saw a lvl 400 total human alchemist destroy a total 2000 ranger... :/
• Kenero wrote on 2011-01-03 15:05
  Golem's defense is a problem. It's sort of irritating and wonderous when a snow golem survives 2 non crit fireballs (1 crit fireball) or 1-2 thunders from Peaca Ghost before they die. 90% protection and mana pd helps a lot apparently. Of course if you're wmling, the problem is moot, but it's interesting to see them survive those.
• Zid wrote on 2011-01-03 15:21
  Argument would fall flat without golems.
  
  Saying golems taking the fun out of Mabinogi combat is really just because your character has very little risk of being in harm's way. Which... can be said of any endgame character, really. Doesn't need a golem.
  
  Sure, golems are imbalanced, but so are many things in Mabinogi. That being said, it is ridiculous to see a character under lvl 1k solo pretty much anything with Golem Summoning.
• gentrone wrote on 2011-01-03 15:36

  Quote from jking012;274338:

  In tarlach I saw a lvl 400 total human alchemist destroy a total 2000 ranger... :/

  
  
  I thought this was PvE not PvP o.O
  
  and what Zid said.
• Kenero wrote on 2011-01-03 15:57

  Quote from gentrone;274481:

  I thought this was PvE not PvP o.O
  
  and what Zid said.

  
  
  I think he's talking how when they are in a party, the golems seem to outkill the level 2k archer.
• Raj wrote on 2011-01-03 23:26

  Quote from Offspring;274221:

  I'll be up front. I hate alchemy. I grinded my teeth through g9-g12. Despite hating alchemy, I realize that it's easier to obtain higher damage and enchants. Heck they even have their own "special" category where they can bend the rules and gain exponential EXP off of those less experienced and having trouble with generation quests.
  
  I'm not saying that alchemist are bad, just the idea of crushing my entire character's build in such a short period is heart breaking. Honestly, I see alchemy as what gunpowder did to knights in armor. Stuffing spheres into tubes, sound familiar? Actually, now that I think about it alchemy really is like gun powder because it allows someone less experienced to defeat someone who's trained their whole life in the ways of the sword. Remember the Ending of last Samurai?
  
  If you want to soil your race with alchemy then go ahead. I've always admired giants because of their abilities and as creatures. Flaws an all. Giant alchemist are dead to me.
  :smoke:

  
  
  I didn't say I was doing to leave Krish. >:O
  There seem to be a lot of different opinions in this thread.
  One says that Alchemy will always outclass giants, the other says that giants are amazing, and then we have the neutral people.
  
  I think it's time to add a poll.
• radionoise wrote on 2011-01-03 23:40

  Quote from Kenero;274493:

  I think he's talking how when they are in a party, the golems seem to outkill the level 2k archer.

  
  
  If anything, that only happens because the highest damaging skills for an archer depend on not being interrupted by golems :I
  
  Elf Magnum can kill a single target much faster than a golem, but if you have the golem constantly pushing the target away from you (lower aim speed) or keeping it in smash animation (unable to shoot) the golem will obviously have all the fun and you can't do anything at all.
  
  Same for Crash Shot... it has higher potential DPS for dense clusters of enemies, but then the golem can load windmill a lot faster and disperse all the enemies across the map, making the skill completely useless.
  
  Any decent golem master knows how not to get his/her partymates killed, or hinder them from fully contributing to the party. If you're seeing a party where a golem is making everyone else underperform, then it is not a very efficient party in terms of damage output and the golem summoner is very inexperienced.
• Kenero wrote on 2011-01-03 23:44

  Quote from radionoise;274904:

  If anything, that only happens because the highest damaging skills for an archer depend on not being interrupted by golems :I
  
  Elf Magnum can kill a single target much faster than a golem, but if you have the golem constantly pushing the target away from you (lower aim speed) or keeping it in smash animation (unable to shoot) the golem will obviously have all the fun and you can't do anything at all.
  
  Same for Crash Shot... it has higher potential DPS for dense clusters of enemies, but then the golem can load windmill a lot faster and disperse all the enemies across the map, making the skill completely useless.
  
  Any decent golem master knows how not to get his/her partymates killed, or hinder them from fully contributing to the party. If you're seeing a party where a golem is making everyone else underperform, then it is not a very efficient party in terms of damage output and the golem summoner is very inexperienced.

  
  
  The same limitations also apply to people who mindlessly windmill as well. In the case with Flame Burst.
• radionoise wrote on 2011-01-03 23:51

  Quote from Kenero;274909:

  The same limitations also apply to people who mindlessly windmill as well. In the case with Flame Burst.

  
  
  Bad parties will also have people who mindlessly windmill, but unless they follow you around like a bodyguard... their model sizes aren't large enough to interrupt you if you keep a reasonable amount of personal space. Golems are so large that the summoner must take his/her party into consideration... sometimes an enemy on the opposite side of the room will aggro you, and a careless golem summoner will windmill it right on top of you when you're already busy dealing with another enemy.
• Kenero wrote on 2011-01-03 23:53

  Quote from radionoise;274918:

  Bad parties will also have people who mindlessly windmill, but unless they follow you around like a bodyguard... their model sizes aren't large enough to interrupt you if you keep a reasonable amount of personal space. Golems are so large that the summoner must take his/her party into consideration... sometimes an enemy on the opposite side of the room will aggro you, and a careless golem summoner will windmill it right on top of you when you're already busy dealing with another enemy.

  
  
  I'll give you that.
  
  However with the implemention of g13 and earth mastery, it will be harder for golem summoners to not windmill anything. Then again, with a golem that bad, you don't really need a party, as you can pin everything to the wall.
• radionoise wrote on 2011-01-04 00:00

  Quote from Kenero;274920:

  I'll give you that.
  
  However with the implemention of g13 and earth mastery, it will be harder for golem summoners to not windmill anything. Then again, with a golem that bad, you don't really need a party, as you can pin everything to the wall.

  
  
  In that case, however, the golem becomes far more party-friendly against enemies with high hp/prot since a walled enemy = magnum/smash/blaze free for all :D
  
  The problem is really when golems are large enough to disperse mobs, but not large enough to keep them all walled.
• Kenero wrote on 2011-01-04 00:06

  Quote from radionoise;274931:

  In that case, however, the golem becomes far more party-friendly against enemies with high hp/prot since a walled enemy = magnum/smash/blaze free for all :D
  
  The problem is really when golems are large enough to disperse mobs, but not large enough to keep them all walled.

  
  
  In dungeon play, that's really possible. I believe there was a video before that had a golem that was soo massive, it kept everything in provocation pinned against the wall.
• abc33kr wrote on 2011-01-04 00:10

  Quote from Kenero;274940:

  In dungeon play, that's really possible. I believe there was a video before that had a golem that was soo massive, it kept everything in provocation pinned against the wall.

  
  
  That's using a glitch that was recently fixed in korea. :D