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Skye wrote on 2011-01-11 02:00
I blame NYC's abortion rate on drunk after-party sex. Yep.
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Mama wrote on 2011-01-11 02:04
Quote from Cynic;285548:
No one (or at-least me/anyone else I can think of) is trying to make it an issue of morals. To me, it is only immoral when people use it as a quick way out of pregnancy due to their own stupidity.
In the case of women who really have no other way, it's different. Sure, the life of another human being, not to mention a child that doesn't even have a say in it's own life, is no small matter. But it isn't really an issue for morals.
Or at-least, it shouldn't be.
For in itself the sin of making a woman carry a child and ruin her AND the childs life is, in itself, immoral.
..But I'm going to stop now. I feel like a preacher. >_>
yeah you're right, that was my main point. I just hate it when people say ITS LIFE DONT KILL IT ABORTION SHOULD BE ILLEGAL!! without even thinking critically for a moment.
Of course it's a life, and I also do recognize the fact that a child's potential to live is also passing every time a woman menstruates. (I'm saying that because the line between life is so blurred, I don't see the difference especially when a fetus can not feel, learn or do anything other than develop and take nutrients from the mother until around the 18th week. Why shouldnt eggs get the same treatment? I see no valid difference between menstruation and early-term abortion.)
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Phunkie wrote on 2011-01-11 02:07
People need to learn better forms of birth control.
"Pulling out" works excellent when done correctly. It's like 2% less success rate than condoms, which is pretty fascinating really.
If you're not gonna use condoms or birth-control pills, pull out, but do it correctly. Most of the times, it'll avoid ya a pregnancy.
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Mama wrote on 2011-01-11 02:10
Quote from Phunkie;285605:
People need to learn better forms of birth control.
"Pulling out" works excellent when done correctly. It's like 2% less success rate than condoms, which is pretty fascinating really.
If you're not gonna use condoms or birth-control pills, pull out, but do it correctly. Most of the times, it'll avoid ya a pregnancy.
pulling out works best when it's only for one go. my rule is that after the first time in a session, a condom is a
must unless you urinate to get rid of the rest of the sperm in the tract. Kind of TMI, but it is possible to get pregnant if you don't take that precaution.
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Skye wrote on 2011-01-11 02:12
On the whole issue of abortion, I look at it this way: if you just randomly have unprotected sex and happen to end up pregnant, then you really don't have any right to abort the child. If you're raped or you're unable to carry a baby due to health risks to you or the child, then I think an abortion is also justifiable.
While a baby is in the womb, it's basically in the same state as any living adult who is in the hospital on life support. Without the life support (mother in a baby's case) then the person/baby would die anyway. But people don't see taking someone off life support as murder, now do they?
There are my two cents.
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Phunkie wrote on 2011-01-11 02:16
Quote from Mama;285606:
pulling out works best when it's only for one go. my rule is that after the first time in a session, a condom is a must unless you urinate to get rid of the rest of the sperm in the tract. Kind of TMI, but it is possible to get pregnant if you don't take that precaution.
Definitely, it is always advised to use a condom, but when you don't have one, something is better than nothing.
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Mama wrote on 2011-01-11 02:20
Quote from Skye;285611:
On the whole issue of abortion, I look at it this way: if you just randomly have unprotected sex and happen to end up pregnant, then you really don't have any right to abort the child. If you're raped or you're unable to carry a baby due to health risks to you or the child, then I think an abortion is also justifiable.
While a baby is in the womb, it's basically in the same state as any living adult who is in the hospital on life support. Without the life support (mother in a baby's case) then the person/baby would die anyway. But people don't see taking someone off life support as murder, now do they?
There are my two cents.
ironically, euthanasia and abortion have very similar issues, the bottom line being what constitutes as 'living'.
And phunks, I wish all men had your view on condom use. I swear half of them don't want their whole sex experience to be dampened by a bit of latex and take the risk. Those are the men I aim to castrate.
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Cynic wrote on 2011-01-11 02:29
Men seem to be too stupid to choose between
1- Using a condom, which honestly doesn't even affect sex that badly.
2- being stuck with a child. <-- this is just how I imagine they'd think of it.
And no offense, fellow men. But really. Some of us are just.. yeesh! Worse than these girls at times.
And euthanasia is indeed another good issue. Though if you think about it.. they're both pretty simple, I guess.
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Sunureu13 wrote on 2011-01-11 02:39
Don't think of it as "New York has a 41% abortion rate."
Think of it as:
"New York is 41% less overpopulated."
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Mama wrote on 2011-01-11 02:50
Quote from Cynic;285642:
Men seem to be too stupid to choose between
1- Using a condom, which honestly doesn't even affect sex that badly.
2- being stuck with a child. <-- this is just how I imagine they'd think of it.
And no offense, fellow men. But really. Some of us are just.. yeesh! Worse than these girls at times.
And euthanasia is indeed another good issue. Though if you think about it.. they're both pretty simple, I guess.
you pretty much hit on the most valid disadvantage to legalized abortion. When it's legal, men (and women) use it as an excuse to do whatever the hell they want, because they know the girl can just get it aborted if it looks like number 2 will come true. With free health care, it's as easy as making an appointment and investing 5 minutes, and you pretty much can say bye bye to all your responsibility.
and youre right that it doesn't even affect it that much. It should always be more about the love going in it, but then again this is north america, where the culture tells you otherwise.
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Cynic wrote on 2011-01-11 02:55
Mmhm. I would only approve of legalization with proper guidelines to it regardless.. not because of morals, but because to needlessly waste the life of such a precious thing should be a sin. Even as a guy I've learned to treasure it and I myself can't wait for the day I get to have kids.
It should be just as an important issue for men as it is to women, though for men it's usually just 'yeah, so I don't get stuck with a baby for being an idiot and not using protection!'. The issue with morals is that, honestly, you should feel morally moved for a woman who was raped or a woman who couldn't raise the child no matter how badly she wished she could. But instead, morals are only there in place because of how sacred life is, despite the hypocrisy of it.
Unless woman learn to leave their legs closed without proper protection and value for murdering an innocent child and men learn the same, we won't get anywhere, though..
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Selithia wrote on 2011-01-11 03:10
Fact of the matter is, if you don't want to be pregnant, and there's a way to stop it, and it's legal, why should we care? My personal beliefs don't override everyone elses, and despite what people might think, abortions aren't just all about people having sex a lot. There's tons of environmental and emotional factors involved, and not to mention the fact that even if they don't, it's their right to be able to do what they want with their bodies. Freaking out over abortion rates and morality and sins and whatnot is just a cheap way to keep enforcing this "women are whores if they enjoy pleasure at all" mentality that the US can't seem to escape from.
EDIT: Plus the article even mentions that it's mostly affecting minorities. Shouldn't that be a wake up call to the fact that they might be in less-than-ideal conditions compared to their posh, well-to-do white counterparts, rather than a call for condemnation of women who might enjoy sex?
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Mama wrote on 2011-01-11 03:19
Quote from Selithia;285714:
Fact of the matter is, if you don't want to be pregnant, and there's a way to stop it, and it's legal, why should we care? My personal beliefs don't override everyone elses, and despite what people might think, abortions aren't just all about people having sex a lot. There's tons of environmental and emotional factors involved, and not to mention the fact that even if they don't, it's their right to be able to do what they want with their bodies. Freaking out over abortion rates and morality and sins and whatnot is just a cheap way to keep enforcing this "women are whores if they enjoy pleasure at all" mentality that the US can't seem to escape from.
EDIT: Plus the article even mentions that it's mostly affecting minorities. Shouldn't that be a wake up call to the fact that they might be in less-than-ideal conditions compared to their posh, well-to-do white counterparts, rather than a call for condemnation of women who might enjoy sex?
yes. however it's not all about 'your body', it's the life who's right to live is being taken away because of some rather superficial reasons a lot of the time, mainly being ignorant, immediate-gratification teens and young adults ill-prepared for the consequences of sex. This is if you think of it on a statistical level.
I support legalized abortion, however I don't think it's right to get too emotional, since it means the death of any critical discussion.
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Lan wrote on 2011-01-11 03:26
An abortion may be killing a future Einstein, though it may also kill a future Hitler.
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Selithia wrote on 2011-01-11 03:36
That whole "you're killing a future ____" applies to condoms, too, so that's why I think it's a worthless argument. Besides, with adoption being kind of a crap-shoot in the US and with child bearing and rearing being expensive and possibly even dangerous (especially in a country where health care is managed by businesses), demanding these women "suffer the consequences" is a majorly mysoginistic thing to do.
Plus, again, this is a legal right they have that they fought and won for. I know we have a tendency in this country to put peoples' rights to a popular vote (looking at you California Prop 8), but come on.