Mod vs hacks?

• Mystickskye wrote on 2011-01-17 12:58

  Quote from Chromatic;293657:

  And i'll gladly use one autoclicker when i want to rank playing instrument. There's ppl around hacking accounts, doing 1 charge fireballs, scamming others, etc. And getting away with it.
  Why would i be worse than the others when i use one macro to rank a skill or getting exploration? And macros are so easy you can make them yourself

  Because you're still cheating? Just a thought. I don't really mind if you do it or not but it's silly trying to justify yourself.
  
  As a couple of other notes, the "chest disappearing bug" isn't really a bug. I'd have thought that ridiculous idea would have been stamped out by now. That and even with everything, Cor artifacts are actually faster than perfectly restored fossils. This too, was shown a while ago.
• Justified wrote on 2011-01-17 13:10
  Mabinogi isn't a game about how good your hand-eye coordination is, and it's not a test of how accurate your mouse/touchpad/trackball/whatever is either. The benefit from a well restored fossil and a perfectly restored fossil isn't that great, and in general fossils are a pretty lousy waste of time compared to other things you can do. All of that makes me not care about the macro.
  
  Likewise for modding auto-instrument/auto-heal for wand prof, these are two things that are completely detached from the environment (meaning you're not interacting with anything outside of your character - like killing mobs) so I see that as okay too. But things like botting mobs, active combat skills, production minigames, fashion contest, and other complex things would be over the line.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2011-01-17 13:17

  Quote from Justified;293665:

  Mabinogi isn't a game about how good your hand-eye coordination is, and it's not a test of how accurate your mouse/touchpad/trackball/whatever is either. The benefit from a well restored fossil and a perfectly restored fossil isn't that great, and in general fossils are a pretty lousy waste of time compared to other things you can do. All of that makes me not care about the macro.
  
  Likewise for modding auto-instrument/auto-heal for wand prof, these are two things that are completely detached from the environment (meaning you're not interacting with anything outside of your character - like killing mobs) so I see that as okay too. But things like botting mobs, active combat skills, production minigames, fashion contest, and other complex things would be over the line.

  
  
  I run into botting instrumentalists in the strangest places...like on top of the Emain Macha observatory or in Solea.
• Justified wrote on 2011-01-17 13:21

  Quote from Kaeporo;293666:

  I run into botting instrumentalists in the strangest places...like on top of the Emain Macha observatory or in Solea.

  
  
  It's fun to carry ticking quiz bombs for when you find people who do it in obvious places.
  It's even more fun knowing that the more times they fail the bomb, the lock penalty gets longer and longer.
• Chromatic wrote on 2011-01-17 13:33

  Quote from Mystickskye;293664:

  Because you're still cheating? Just a thought. I don't really mind if you do it or not but it's silly trying to justify yourself.
  
  As a couple of other notes, the "chest disappearing bug" isn't really a bug. I'd have thought that ridiculous idea would have been stamped out by now. That and even with everything, Cor artifacts are actually faster than perfectly restored fossils. This too, was shown a while ago.

  
  
  It's a bug if we compare rano and connous chests with cor chests. Regardless that is annoying as hell kill the chest guardians and when you go open the chest it vanishes
  Also at cheating. I still had to get the fossils and i wasnt going easy mode with elf hiding crap. I always got my fossils with human through golem mining, i still had to open each one, i still had to redeem each one. It's not like im pulling my credit card, empty the bots dry, and buy the mats for every skill/thing i want to rank/make
  
  @my justification, that was directed for OP. It's unreasonable to lose the trust you have for someone when the reasoning of someone using a macro or not can be as simple as that. Thats why i took my time to justify my reason why i used to use them.
  
  Now with crash shot i just raft :D
• Koishi wrote on 2011-01-17 13:42
  tl;dr, there are too many moralfags on Mabinogi who epeen by calling everything "hacks" and whiteknighting by universally condemning all of them
  
  Also, considering what life skills take, I'm not going to whine too much if people cheat a bit to get good results on blacksmithing or the like.
  
  Gamebreaking is something that gives a person a material advantage over other players beyond being able to simulate not having a life at all.
• Chromatic wrote on 2011-01-17 13:49

  Quote from Koishi;293674:

  tl;dr, there are too many moralfags on Mabinogi who epeen by calling everything "hacks" and whiteknighting by universally condemning all of them

  
  
  /thread
• TinyMo wrote on 2011-01-17 14:04
  I don't think you should hate on someone for having a higher moral code than you. Or a lower one for that matter. :what:
  
  Anyway, I see it as cheating but it doesn't really get you anywhere. I have a friend who uses it but he's still my friend. Artifact hunting in the swamp is faster than fossils I think even with a macro, and the lava cat robe is still rare.
• Mystickskye wrote on 2011-01-17 14:48

  Quote from Chromatic;293671:

  It's a bug if we compare rano and connous chests with cor chests

  And and all chests can disappear regardless of where they are. It's simply to do with how the system works.

  Quote from Chromatic;293671:

  Also at cheating. I still had to get the fossils and i wasnt going easy mode with elf hiding crap. I always got my fossils with human through golem mining, i still had to open each one, i still had to redeem each one. It's not like im pulling my credit card, empty the bots dry, and buy the mats for every skill/thing i want to rank/make

  A difference in severity doesn't really change the fact that you're going around the game system. It could be argued that people who packet edit in Tir to fish up fishing boat chests still need to buy the bait, still need to maintain their rods, still need to open the chests and so forth. It distracts from the original point. I've said before, I don't really mind myself if you choose to use the fossil macro or not but you should at the least be able to see that some people will take issue with it for the reason of it being "unfair" via out-of-game advantage.
  
  @Koishi; well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I will say again though, I don't care what you do. I just think it's silly to try and justify it. Trying to ridicule others only demeans your own views though. It doesn't do you any favours, it burns bridges and worst of all doesn't actually say anything.
  
  To put things into perspective, I disable the vector rendering and allow far zooming when I can be bothered (if it's there, I'll enable CCing to the same channel for personal preference). I understand the implications of what doing so means to others and I'm not going to justify myself. I understand it goes against the rules and I understand I can be punished for doing so (even if the track record suggests the latter is unlikely). I'm not going to complain.
• Chromatic wrote on 2011-01-17 15:03

  Quote from Mystickskye;293713:

  And and all chests can disappear regardless of where they are.

  
  
  If you're not aware, connous and rano chests have a timer for each chest, while cor chests have a general timer. System is different in cor
  
  For example (and for example because i dont know precisely the time chests take to vanish, using 1min as example), while connous/rano chests have 1 min timer after you find them while cor chests have a general 1 min timer. If you find a chest in connous, after you find it it will have 1 min timer for you to do wtv you want to the guardians. While if you find a chest in cor at 0:59 secs, it will vanish before you can even think in opening it. And if you find it at 0:01 and take 58 secs to kill the mob. When you pick the key and go open the chest, it will vanish before you can open it
  
  Glitch, bug, developer intention. It's annoying regardless the motive
  
  

  Quote from Mystickskye;293713:

  A difference in severity doesn't really change the fact that you're going around the game system. It could be argued that people who packet edit in Tir to fish up fishing boat chests still need to buy the bait, still need to maintain their rods, still need to open the chests and so forth. It distracts from the original point. I've said before, I don't really mind myself if you choose to use the fossil macro or not but you should at the least be able to see that some people will take issue with it for the reason of it being "unfair" via out-of-game advantage.

  
  
  Packet editing. You're editing the game files to be able to fish anywhere. You dont even need to fish near the water with it
  To get fossils you still need to go to zardine, get poisoned with sulfur, get beaten up by golems, repair the pickaxe, restore your hp/mp/stamina with pots, rebless your equips incase you die.
  Your point is moot, get a better example
• Mystickskye wrote on 2011-01-17 15:09
  So you're saying that all the people who say they have had rano/connous chests disappear immediately after finding them are liars? Across all the servers? For the years since G4 has been out?
  
  And yes, it is annoying.
• Chromatic wrote on 2011-01-17 15:29

  Quote from Mystickskye;293724:

  So you're saying that all the people who say they have had rano/connous chests disappear immediately after finding them are liars? Across all the servers? For the years since G4 has been out?
  
  And yes, it is annoying.

  
  
  Considering these
  

  [Image: http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3408/mabinogi20100415002.jpg]

  
  

  [Image: http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2209/mabinogi20100328008.jpg]

  
  I could be one ass and use the experience i have from multiple lizard ES hunts and say "yes lol". However it's mabi, tons of weird crap happen
• Mystickskye wrote on 2011-01-17 16:18

  Quote from Chromatic;293721:

  Packet editing. You're editing the game files to be able to fish anywhere. You dont even need to fish near the water with it
  To get fossils you still need to go to zardine, get poisoned with sulfur, get beaten up by golems, repair the pickaxe, restore your hp/mp/stamina with pots, rebless your equips incase you die.
  Your point is moot, get a better example

  I'm not entirely sure how you've shown the point is moot given the context of my post (ignoring that packet editing isn't editing game files). You seem to be confusing the severity/magnitude of the offence with whether or not it's an offence at all as well as "offsetting" the offence. Arguably, you don't need to get beat up by golems. You don't need to restore hp/mp/stam. You don't need to rebless your equipment. This is irrelevant to my point though. My point is that cheating is cheating no matter what you have to do and there are repercussions from it. I don't care if you do but there's no "work credit" system. In the end, you are cheating regardless of the magnitude. You can fossil macro till the sun goes down and I really don't care that you break the rules like that. It's a rule a lot of us disregard but a lot of people simply refuse to accept that it is cheating in the end, no matter what we say or do. It's not justifiable. Now if Nexon had something to say on the matter, that might change things. I doubt they'd look kindly on any sort of gameplay modification though.
  
  And yes, I know how the chests work. This is why I say it's not a bug. Design flaw perhaps but not a bug.
  
  As a side note, rookie move there quoting your own experience.
• Zid wrote on 2011-01-17 16:20

  Quote from Cryosite;293625:

  a "hack" as I understand the term to be properly used, involves bypassing the security of the servers and gaining access to the data therein. Either just to read it, or to insert your own program (virus). Nothing I know of that has been done in mabi falls under this category, though I hear accusations all the time that player A hacked player B. Most of the time Player A got the login info of Player B either directly from Player B telling them, or from Player C telling them.
  
  a mod is some alteration or hook into the client that modifies the client-side data. It affects only your own computer directly. Graphics replacements, font replacement, zoom, cutscene removal, mimics, dungeon maps, and so on all fall under this category. While considerably more "game breaking" things like .dll edits fall under this category, as .dll files are part of the client/package and contained on the user's computer.
  
  a bot is something that inputs commands to your client without your needing to even be present. the fossil restore macro thing falls under this program, as does dyelite, autoclickers, the spam bots and various forms of gold farming, metallurgy, and assorted other sorts of farming bots, ego feeding bots, etc.
  
  A gray area between modding and hacking is packet editing: taking the packets of data your client sends legitimately to the server and rewriting what they say to change the outcome of things.

  
  
  Answers that question.
  
  

  Quote from Mystickskye;293713:

  I understand the implications of what doing so means to others and I'm not going to justify myself. I understand it goes against the rules and I understand I can be punished for doing so (even if the track record suggests the latter is unlikely). I'm not going to complain.

  
  
  Decent way to describe how I feel about it.
  
  

  Quote from Chromatic;293721:

  Glitch, bug, developer intention. It's annoying regardless the motive

  
  
  Developer's intention.
  
  Using a personalized stopwatch and Demigod help with the Expl EXP/second a lot. But you have rafting, so you wouldn't see the point of that.
• Chromatic wrote on 2011-01-17 16:45

  Quote from Mystickskye;293756:

  As a side note, rookie move there quoting your own experience.

  
  
  Yep let's all not login and make assumptions based on what others said. Really smart move there