Are we too powerful?

• sakraycore wrote on 2011-01-23 21:47
  I started mabinogi because when I started you needed to spend time and effort to learn how to do ice counter, fire counter, ice/fire counter etc in order to have a chance in hard dungeons like rabbie normal. I liked how you would die if you actually get hit and you can't just "tank" everything.
  
  Really sad that no strategy is needed anymore, and brute strength is the only thing you need.
  
  Something like golem makes it so the user is completely safe since he can use it outside the room =/
• frozenwilderness wrote on 2011-01-23 22:03
  Well that's how all mmorpgs go over time.. Mabinogi is no exception.
  
  If you don't keep advancing the game and creating greater goals for the veterans to achieve, they'll max out their skills, get bored, and quit the game. On the other hand, by adding more content in terms of skills, dungeons, quests/missions to the game, you are also alienating the new players who join because they might find themselves overwhelmed by the amount of content to catch up with to be on a "decent" relative to the general population. There's no real solution to this problem; at the end you'll just have to find a middle ground and compromise if you want to keep your revenue stream steady.
• Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-23 22:14
  I completed g2 on my alt on his first life, when he was total level 20-25. Granted, being my second time going through g1 and having the wiki as a resource helped a lot, and knowing a lot of people to get ideals done in less than 24 hours helped. As well as having Cosmic around for the final...
  
  Yeah, nevermind.
• frozenwilderness wrote on 2011-01-23 22:21
  However, I have to disagree with you when you say that the game only requires brute force/pot-spamming to get through dungeons and missions. While it is true that you can probably get through just about anything by pot-spamming and/or having high character stats in terms of dmg/hp/def, this has been true since the beginning of the game. I remember when I spammed ciar beginner/normal when I first began in g2, all I did to fight the golem at the end was hp pot spam because I didn't know how to use skills nor did I know what they were for.
  
  I think the case now is about the same - although you can pot spam your way through difficult dungeons or missions, there's usually a smarter and more efficient way to go about it without using pots as frequently as you claim. Note that when I'm referring to pots, I'm only really referring to hp pots as stamina pots and mana pots are pretty much a given if you're heavy melee or mage. Those have always been an essential part of the game, especially after a player has ranked most of their melee/magic skills to or near 1, and I don't really classify that as a new development. I'd like to think of pots more of as "supplies" than anything else really.
• Fracture wrote on 2011-01-23 22:40

  Quote from Cuathal;302010:

  EDIT: Also, to you idiot noobs (not the people that just posted here, mind you) that want to be spoonfed and say G2 is too hard, I did it about almost all of it before my total hit 100. Proof that it's easy if you just LEARN!

  
  
  I didn't do mine until around total 300, but that's just because that was when mainstreams became free to play. I later did G2 on my total 34 alt.
• Chiyuri wrote on 2011-01-23 22:46

  Quote from frozenwilderness;302048:

  
  I think the case now is about the same - although you can pot spam your way through difficult dungeons or missions, there's usually a smarter and more efficient way to go about it without using pots as frequently as you claim. Note that when I'm referring to pots, I'm only really referring to hp pots as stamina pots and mana pots are pretty much a given if you're heavy melee or mage. Those have always been an essential part of the game, especially after a player has ranked most of their melee/magic skills to or near 1, and I don't really classify that as a new development. I'd like to think of pots more of as "supplies" than anything else really.

  
  
  Actually.. if a mage would to use their skill more wisely. you can avoid the need of mana pots. But most magic user just prefer to spam them and brute force their way into the game..
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2011-01-23 22:53

  Quote from Cuathal;300590:

  
  
  Nexon realized this with Maple, so what did they do? Pull the 2x EXP cards. People raged left and right. Many a quitting sale was had. But Maple's still going strong.

  
  
  Actually, they pull the 2x Exp cards because after level 120 and Big Bang, it is like having 2x Exp all the time. The experience needed was cut in half. Before level 120, the experience was cut anywhere from 90% to 50%.
  
  

  Quote from Chiyuri;302073:

  Actually.. if a mage would to use their skill more wisely. you can avoid the need of mana pots. But most magic user just prefer to spam them and brute force their way into the game..

  
  
  If you are fighting enough enemies, you will eventually need to use some pots unless you are like leveling constantly.
• frozenwilderness wrote on 2011-01-23 22:56

  Quote from Chiyuri;302073:

  Actually.. if a mage would to use their skill more wisely. you can avoid the need of mana pots. But most magic user just prefer to spam them and brute force their way into the game..

  I don't think there's a way to avoid spamming mana pots when grinding difficult dungeons/sms/rafting when you rely on mainly magic to deal damage -- I'm referring to pretty much pure mages though of course.
• Shizuo wrote on 2011-01-23 22:57
  @OP:
  Yeah, I can kind of see what you mean. I often run into situations where people won't help me because they don't want to be fighting with a "noob". However, when I do manage to get in a party, I find that people do use teamwork. Even I do, since I use almost every skill set, I try to do what I can to help my partymembers out. I always heal them if they need it.
  I haven't always been on Alexina. I used to be in Ruairi back in the days of G1, so I'm not new to the game at all. And comparing back then to now, I can see where you're coming from. There are lots of pros running around, but as mentioned before, that happens in a lot of games.
  The only thing I wish for would be more people willing to help newer players out. Sure, there may not be much in it for you, but it doesn't hurt. I guess I just don't like the attitude that some veteran players have toward newer players :/
• Chiyuri wrote on 2011-01-23 23:10

  Quote from frozenwilderness;302079:

  I don't think there's a way to avoid spamming mana pots when grinding difficult dungeons/sms/rafting when you rely on mainly magic to deal damage -- I'm referring to pretty much pure mages though of course.

  
  
  There is.. I do it all the time. It's just more simple for our simple minded mage to spam their mana potions and do all on their own.
• Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-23 23:23

  Quote from muyo;302080:

  @OP:
  Yeah, I can kind of see what you mean. I often run into situations where people won't help me because they don't want to be fighting with a "noob". However, when I do manage to get in a party, I find that people do use teamwork. Even I do, since I use almost every skill set, I try to do what I can to help my partymembers out. I always heal them if they need it.
  I haven't always been on Alexina. I used to be in Ruairi back in the days of G1, so I'm not new to the game at all. And comparing back then to now, I can see where you're coming from. There are lots of pros running around, but as mentioned before, that happens in a lot of games.
  The only thing I wish for would be more people willing to help newer players out. Sure, there may not be much in it for you, but it doesn't hurt. I guess I just don't like the attitude that some veteran players have toward newer players :/

  
  
  As a veteran player of over 2 years, and as one referred to as "pro" by newbies (though by no means anywhere near the top or players I consider pro), I still remember my days as a newbie. I recall joining random parties of other newbies, and finding I did better solo. I had many opportunities to go through dungeons with players far above me in levels and skill, and did my best to keep up... but that often turned to mostly staying out of the way because it would take me longer to kill even on thing than for them to kill everything else in the room and my mob too. Now being on the other side of the coin... it can often be hard to tell the difference between a player that is trying their best and is just new/weak or one that doesn't try at all. I used to help new players out a lot. I'd sit with them and explain things like N+1, how to use bolt counter, or how balance and crit work. So much so that I was often given nicknames like sensei or sage.
  
  All too often though, I see those players I help end up quitting, or just not putting the information I taught them to use. It's really hard to tell which newbies will actually be worth the time and effort to teach and help, and which ones will just be a waste of your time.
  
  And there will always be more newbies... until the game dies off and Nexon shuts it down. There will never be an end to people asking for help (need it or not is irrelevant), and trying to help every newbie would turn the game into a chore. Helping newbies, as you pointed out, often involves very little reward. Part of the reason why I am as high a level and have the nice things I have now is because I did focus on myself, my character, and meeting my goals and attaining rewards for myself. Yes, I had help along the way here and there, like the above post about g2 (for my alt). But the vast majority of my accomplishments were done either solo, or working as partners with other strong friends.
  
  back on main topic though. the game isn't really any different than it used to be. People spammed potions and tried to brute force content from day one. There were always players that would grind hours on end to get a few more levels than the casual players, get to capped ranks in things like Wm and smash, and brute force their way through whatever content required a lot of "strategy" to beat for casual players.
  
  As for their being smarter enemies, or things that are different to fight that you can't just spam attacks on... I think there are more of those now than there were in c1. We have Iria giant field bosses that have their own unique patterns that work on (hint to all the teeming masses that show up to red dragon... stop WMing so much, you're making it harder). The Final fights for c3 were all pretty unique. there are also the secret missions, or whatever they're called that you get a grade on completing.
  
  The game has gotten better, more diverse, and includes far more opportunity for different styles of play and different experiences to be had. There is nothing c1 offered that can make that claim, and all the problems brought up in this thread to that idea were present back then too. What is needed is for people to be more open minded about the changes that have happened over time, and recognize the good things for what they are.
• Shizuo wrote on 2011-01-23 23:55
  I don't know. Maybe it's just me then. If I've got time, I don't see any harm in helping a new player out if they need it. I mean, not helping someone just because they're new doesn't make much sense to me D: And whenever I help them out, I let them kill the monsters they're working on unless they're like...getting slaughtered. and I also try to teach them strategies and stuff.
  In the case of whether they're "worth it" or not, maybe I'm just too optimistic :x But most of the new people I've helped out in the past ended up sticking around, so...
• frozenwilderness wrote on 2011-01-24 00:39

  Quote from Chiyuri;302089:

  There is.. I do it all the time. It's just more simple for our simple minded mage to spam their mana potions and do all on their own.

  Then you'll have to show me a vid or something because I can't imagine a pure mage grinding, say, SCC (or w/e exp efficient SM/dungeon) for several hours without having to pot a few times per run and still run it in an efficient manner.
• Juno wrote on 2011-01-24 00:48

  Quote from Cryosite:

  The game has gotten better, more diverse, and includes far more opportunity for different styles of play and different experiences to be had. There is nothing c1 offered that can make that claim, and all the problems brought up in this thread to that idea were present back then too. What is needed is for people to be more open minded about the changes that have happened over time, and recognize the good things for what they are.

  
  
  In many ways yes, but I can't deny that if AI was in general better/more diverse and mobs had less hp...that it'd be much better than it is now.
• Ryoko wrote on 2011-01-24 01:13

  Quote from muyo;302144:

  I don't know. Maybe it's just me then. If I've got time, I don't see any harm in helping a new player out if they need it. I mean, not helping someone just because they're new doesn't make much sense to me D: And whenever I help them out, I let them kill the monsters they're working on unless they're like...getting slaughtered. and I also try to teach them strategies and stuff.
  In the case of whether they're "worth it" or not, maybe I'm just too optimistic :x But most of the new people I've helped out in the past ended up sticking around, so...

  
  
  When I'm away..
  
  I get a help request note, and then think.. When I come back, that is.
  "Why must it always give me the worse times for it ?"
  
  And also, it somewhat applies to the Tara PTJ as well. Why not help the people get their Falias Fragments..?