Golem Exp Nerf

• Koishi wrote on 2011-02-11 00:45

  Quote from Sunureu13;329666:

  ... Are you for real? You're jumping through hoops to try and twist words and actions. You need to either drop your ridiculously biased anti-golem attitude or leave.
  
  It was nerfed, not buffed. EVERY. OTHER. (damage) SKILL. Has a mastery now. (sans x/bow until g14) Do you understand that? Sword mastery gives +20 max. Ice Mastery gives +15% damage. Etc. You understand that right? Please tell me you do. Because of the new int formula, Int Magic got nerfed and does 15% less damage. With the new masteries, you can do more damage than pre-g13. Int Magic was still nerfed. The same. damn. thing. with. golem. Because of the new size adjustment, golem size got nerfed. With the new Clay Mastery (Yeah, that thing, one of those new masteries I was talking about, k?), you can get bigger golems than you could pre-g13.
  
  Get it? Please reply with some sort of statement attempting to disprove what I just said. PLEASE DO. I want to see how far you will go :)
  
  

  
  
  
  Here is Wikipedia's definition of a nerf.
  
  

  In video gaming a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element. The term is also used as a verb for the act of making such a change.[1][2] The opposite of nerf is buff (in one of that term's two usages).

  .
  
  Are Golems less effective or less desirable than before? Maybe in comparison to what they are in KR, but they did not actually DECREASE in power. If you charted the power of the North American golem, it would show an upward curve from G12 to G13. Any reasonable, unbiased observer could conclude that the addition of Clay Mastery and the EQ Cylinder amounts to a BUFF of Golems. How could you argue that a SLIGHT, yes SLIGHT lag in the power curve between NA and KR amounts to a NERF?
  
  Are golems stronger then in g12? Yes they are. Are they slightly stronger (and it speaks to how all the golemers at least in this thread are entitled spoiled brats, seeing they're complaining about not being able to hit all the walls in Provocation) in KR? Yes. But does that matter? No. Not to mention that we play in NA, and in NA, Golems NEVER hit all the Provocation walls. So what were our golems nerfed from? You might as well say Humans are nerfed because we don't get Shadow Bunshin.
• sakraycore wrote on 2011-02-11 01:16
  Are they honestly complaining about not being able to hit the walls in provocation?
  
  XD
• Fracture wrote on 2011-02-11 01:26
  I'm too lazy to write a full post, so I'll summarize what I think of this crap: Tautology.
• Zeo wrote on 2011-02-11 01:27
  Guys, calm down with the insults, please.
  
  And yes, golems does get more stronger after G13.
• Xemnas wrote on 2011-02-11 01:59
  Hey does anyone have the link to the video of the giant magic golem that has a wm radius of the whole provocation arena(and is in the provocation arena spamming wm)?
• Sunureu13 wrote on 2011-02-11 03:40

  Quote from Koishi;329735:

  Are Golems less effective or less desirable than before? Maybe in comparison to what they are in KR, but they did not actually DECREASE in power. If you charted the power of the North American golem, it would show an upward curve from G12 to G13. Any reasonable, unbiased observer could conclude that the addition of Clay Mastery and the EQ Cylinder amounts to a BUFF of Golems. However, you, and most of the other golemers are NOT unbiased observers. Otherwise, how could you argue that a SLIGHT, yes SLIGHT lag in the power curve between NA and KR amounts to a NERF?
  
  Are golems stronger then in g12? Yes they are. Are they slightly stronger (and it speaks to how all the golemers at least in this thread are entitled spoiled brats, seeing they're complaining about not being able to hit all the walls in Provocation) in KR? Yes. But does that matter? No. Not to mention that we play in NA, and in NA, Golems NEVER hit all the Provocation walls. So what were our golems nerfed from? You might as well say Humans are nerfed because we don't get Shadow Bunshin.
  
  I am a very politically minded person, enough to know that you are engaging in a CLASSIC trick of political deception. When a political party gets elected on promise to cut spending, they do not cut spending, they simply cut the yearly GROWTH of spending, and refer to it as a spending cut. So instead of a 5% growth in the budget, there is a 3% growth in the budget. By using the word "nerf", you are implying that golems are weaker. By using the term "spending cut", politicians imply that spending was actually cut.
  
  In other words, you're full of crap.

  
  
  You're serious aren't you. You absolutely believe that even though it was nerfed, it wasn't? g13 decreased the size of the golem. With the addition of Clay Mastery and an Earthquake Cylinder, the size and damage increased. Do you hear that? With the addition of a new skill, which might I remind you, EVERY. OTHER. ATTACK. GOT. AN. INCREASE. IN. POWER. FROM. THEIR. RESPECTIVE. MASTERIES. Every. Single. One. of. Them. Yes, you could say that Golem was "buffed," but everything else was "buffed." So, in essence, nothing was buffed. Everything got an equal increase in effectiveness. EXCEPT GOLEM. You know why? The size was nerfed in g13, so it wouldn't compound the "buffing" of every skill. Would you like a picture? Sure, here's one:
  
  

  [Image: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/Dimitri13/golemgraph.jpg]

  
  
  In other words, you're full of crap.
• Kenero wrote on 2011-02-11 03:48

  Quote from Sunureu13;330220:

  snipped
  
  

  
  
  You mean this?:
  
  

  [Image: http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7416/mabigolemsize.jpg]
• Sunureu13 wrote on 2011-02-11 03:49
  That too, but I wanted something simpler that even Koishi could understand.
• sakraycore wrote on 2011-02-11 03:53
  We understand that the size was reduced but none of that matters because overall the size still increased. When you nerf something you don't introduce another synergy which makes it overall better.
  
  That's like trying to nerf blessed hammers by reducing its damage by 50% but adding another synergy skill which triples its damage and calling that a nerf.
  
  The only argument that could potentially work for you guys is claiming that somehow all other branches of combat got a bigger increase in offensive potential than golem, which imo is not true at all.
  
  Golem got clay mastery and got a size reduction. However, the effects of the clay mastery is so much greater than the size reduction that even tho other branches of combat got a buff, this didn't reduce golem's effectiveness at all, the only thing it did was make golem much more OP.
  
  Buffing golem's size is THE worst way to nerf it.
• Joker wrote on 2011-02-11 03:54

  Quote from Koishi;329735:

  Here is Wikipedia's definition of a nerf.
  
  .
  
  Are Golems less effective or less desirable than before? Maybe in comparison to what they are in KR, but they did not actually DECREASE in power. If you charted the power of the North American golem, it would show an upward curve from G12 to G13. Any reasonable, unbiased observer could conclude that the addition of Clay Mastery and the EQ Cylinder amounts to a BUFF of Golems. How could you argue that a SLIGHT, yes SLIGHT lag in the power curve between NA and KR amounts to a NERF?
  
  Are golems stronger then in g12? Yes they are. Are they slightly stronger (and it speaks to how all the golemers at least in this thread are entitled spoiled brats, seeing they're complaining about not being able to hit all the walls in Provocation) in KR? Yes. But does that matter? No. Not to mention that we play in NA, and in NA, Golems NEVER hit all the Provocation walls. So what were our golems nerfed from? You might as well say Humans are nerfed because we don't get Shadow Bunshin.

  
  
  THIS ^
• arklian wrote on 2011-02-11 04:40
  I would prefer 1.3x or so wm radius > 50+ more wm damage.
  Clay mastery + EQ cylinder >>>>> Sword mastery.
  
  OP wm radius x 1.3 = Way more OP wm.
• Justified wrote on 2011-02-11 04:41
  If you're gonna nitpick on what nerf means...
  
  I want magic unnerfed. Golems were nerfed only in size, and only by like 15%, while magic damage was nerfed 20%.
  
  Give me my 20% back so I can Fireball for 6000 non-crit non-element damage, and then you can keep your golems.
• sakraycore wrote on 2011-02-11 05:01

  Quote from Justified;330433:

  If you're gonna nitpick on what nerf means...
  
  I want magic unnerfed. Golems were nerfed only in size, and only by like 15%, while magic damage was nerfed 20%.
  
  Give me my 20% back so I can Fireball for 6000 non-crit non-element damage, and then you can keep your golems.

  
  
  Hey now magic and alchemy are both great already. Archery and melee needs the boost right now imo ;_;
  
  The more HP mobs have, the crappier melee and archery seem to become.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2011-02-11 05:02

  Quote from Sunureu13;330220:

  You're serious aren't you. You absolutely believe that even though it was nerfed, it wasn't? g13 decreased the size of the golem. With the addition of Clay Mastery and an Earthquake Cylinder, the size and damage increased. Do you hear that? With the addition of a new skill, which might I remind you, EVERY. OTHER. ATTACK. GOT. AN. INCREASE. IN. POWER. FROM. THEIR. RESPECTIVE. MASTERIES. Every. Single. One. of. Them. Yes, you could say that Golem was "buffed," but everything else was "buffed." So, in essence, nothing was buffed. Everything got an equal increase in effectiveness. EXCEPT GOLEM. You know why? The size was nerfed in g13, so it wouldn't compound the "buffing" of every skill. Would you like a picture? Sure, here's one:
  
  In other words, you're full of crap.

  
  
  The only thing that was "nerfed" was the size. The end result was much stronger and larger.
  
  A subset of skills from one combat tier shouldn't come even remotely close to outclassing an entire combat tier. Summoned Golems might not completely replace the melee skills that you may already have but they definitely remove any reason to use melee from the start.
  
  In the thread, "What skills should I rank?" I asked for character build advice. I'm a Human ranger with little interest in Alchemy other than support. Instead of suggesting that I delve into melee, it was suggested that I rank Summon Golem in order to obtain end-game melee without actually working for end-game melee.
  
  Nothing against those who gave me advice. I appreciate it. As far as this topic is concerned, it highlights a broken skill.
  
  The solution? I wouldn't nerf Summon Golem. However, it would be wise for DevCat to stop releasing content which further buffs Summon Golem. Also, Koreans hate the skill and want it further nerfed. Good luck with that.
• Shanghai wrote on 2011-02-11 09:32
  This may be unrelated, but we have to take account into the general knowledge of new players and those that don't go on these resources(which is about half of the population, give or take 10%). Say if some random new player showed up to Mabinogi, would he instantly know to rank Golem all the way to 1? Would he know that it was Easy-modo to get up there in the ranks of end-game players with little effort? No, the player doesn't even know about Alchemy unless a random person or friend showed it to him before he even got the initiating cutscene for G9. Even then, it would take awhile for the player to actually understand the uses and advantages Summon Golem has over any other Alchemy skill. He's also probably offset by the cost to get the skill, which is 30k, something the budget of a low-leveled player cannot afford if he isn't funded by a friend. Even then, there's a low chance of him actually wanting to rank the skill due to how boring the requirements are(Who wants to sit in front of some stones and click on them all day? I'd rather hunt monsters in SMs.). He does not know he needs to max Alchemy Mastery or Clay Mastery to get Golem to it's full potential, and even then he probably wouldn't know how to rank the 2 since he doesn't know how to get Frozen Blast or Intermediate magic to easily rank it. It's not at all possible for a new player to get Golem/AlchM/Clay to 1/1/1 right away from the start, unless the person was an intermediate player who had knowledge of all of this through 600 levels of playing, and even then he'd stick to Golem Summoning on his main and not a mule unless he wanted to multi-client. He doesn't know the nerfs/buffs(whatever you call it) that toke place within Golem Summoning since he just started. Unless you were some high-end player with funds into an alt, you wouldn't be able to get 1/1/1 by whatever level the AP it requires to get them all to 1/1/1, making it an end-game(maybe intermediate) skill.
  
  I don't know about some of you, but ranting about all these numbers, nerfs, and buffs does not sound like fun to me. The goal of a game is to have fun, not talk about mechanics that make the game fun. By doing so, you're making the game un-fun and making it lose the entire point of why the game was created. I know some people might, but the majority won't. So they don't bother with all this knowledge of Golem Summoning, thus they won't rank it in the first place.
  
  This post doesn't feel like it's supporting Golem or not, maybe it is. But then again, I just want to get this point out here after reading through this.