[Egos] 1H vs. 2H?

• Aubog007 wrote on 2010-05-12 05:02

  Quote from Mentosftw;34100:

  ^ I did some calculations with average damage and balance is a more affecting factor than min damage.
  All of this is irrevelent. Anything will die eventually provided you hit it enough.

  
  
  i don't want to hit the min damage 1/100 times if it means that i dont 1-2 hit the mob im fighting.
  I'm a consistent soloing grinder.
  
  Speed and efficiency using the least amount of power possible is how i make my money.
• Jahrakal wrote on 2010-05-12 18:41

  Quote from Justified;32930:

  
  Dual-wield windmill is overrated. Especially as your base strength and non-weapon enchants get higher and higher.

  
  
  Overrated is not the word you want to use there.
  
  I have a 2-handed Ego weapon as well (Masamune). I'm not saying 2h is week, and you don't need too much stun time as 2-hit slow weapons(Broadsword) already give you enough time to spam Windmill. The only occasion I can think of why you'd want longer stun time is if you have a very slow connection and have no pets at all.
  
  High level Ego Gladius surpasses any enchanted/upgraded weapon (this is a fact) by quite a huge margin.
  
  And for Windmill, dual-wielding with Ego Gladius and a high-end enchanted upgraded Broadsword always produces the best damage output compared to similar level Ego 2h weapons.
  
  I'll say again that 2h weapons are not designed for Windmill, but for Smash (much more so after the 600% update).
• Justified wrote on 2010-05-12 19:01

  Quote from Jahrakal;34376:

  I have a 2-handed Ego weapon as well (Masamune). I'm not saying 2h is week, and you don't need too much stun time as 2-hit slow weapons(Broadsword) already give you enough time to spam Windmill. The only occasion I can think of why you'd want longer stun time is if you have a very slow connection and have no pets at all.

  
  
  Masamune falls short compared to 2Hander by about 20 damage at similar Str levels. It's quite significant.
  As for the stun time, I tend to run around a lot when (IE. Hit one, move, hit second, move, hit third, windmill all 3) and that extra half second or so matters to me. I'm not a fan of solely windmill spamming unless multi-aggro forces it, because adding in smashes will almost always get the job done faster (in harder dungeons with high-HP, high-def mobs). Smashmill is also much safer with a 2H weapon, and splash is nifty too.
  
  My style greatly favors 2H weapons over dual wielding.
• Syrphid wrote on 2010-05-12 19:02

  Quote from Jahrakal;34376:

  Overrated is not the word you want to use there.
  
  I have a 2-handed Ego weapon as well (Masamune). I'm not saying 2h is week, and you don't need too much stun time as 2-hit slow weapons(Broadsword) already give you enough time to spam Windmill. The only occasion I can think of why you'd want longer stun time is if you have a very slow connection and have no pets at all.
  
  High level Ego Gladius surpasses any enchanted/upgraded weapon (this is a fact) by quite a huge margin.
  
  And for Windmill, dual-wielding with Ego Gladius and a high-end enchanted upgraded Broadsword always produces the best damage output compared to similar level Ego 2h weapons.
  
  I'll say again that 2h weapons are not designed for Windmill, but for Smash (much more so after the 600% update).

  
  
  Optimizing dmg against single and double aggro might be your cup of tea. Justified seems more interested in heavy aggro handling. Higher stun gives you more time to position yourself and your pets more time to play. I find the latter objective far more interesting. Higher stun also has applications in party play.
  
  High level ego 2hander also surpasses any enchanted/upgraded weapon, no?
• Archibald wrote on 2010-05-12 19:03
  Someone run the calculations of a level 50 dustin sword (240 max) vs a shadow hunter spike Blue Flashy dyed(cause flashy adds damage) 114 max + level 50 ego glad (175 max i think) for wm.
• Jahrakal wrote on 2010-05-12 20:52
  My Ego was made soley for looks till Wing Bow becomes Ego-able, so I understand the flaw of Ego Masamune.
  
  I prefer dual-wielding due to the fact that I can simply add in FH to the mix for agro handling (expecially in Defeat Fomor Commander II which I run daily).
  
  I'm not saying 2h Ego is bad, but I focus my build around highest maximum damage obtainable alongside with high critical, which 2h Ego just doesn't deliver.
  
  

  Quote from Archibald;34385:

  Someone run the calculations of a level 50 dustin sword (240 max) vs a shadow hunter spike Blue Flashy dyed(cause flashy adds damage) 114 max + level 50 ego glad (175 max i think) for wm.

  
  
  [Bare hand damage + weapon damage] * skill multiplier
  [(Bare hand damage) + (first weapon damage) + (second weapon damage)] * skill multiplier
  
  Let's say you have 100 bare hand damage for the sake of calculation.
  
  DSKS: 340 * 2.5 * 2.5 = 2125
  Dual: 389 * 2.5 * 2.5 = 2431.25
  
  So unless you care about that 300 damage difference like me, DSKS still is a good Ego weapon.
  
  Edit:
  
  I never had any problems with multi-agro situations with dual-wielding. Barely any of the monsters are more than 2v1 in Hard level Shadow Missions, and Ciar Advanced doesn't need "heavy" agro handling when you can kill everything in 1 Windmill/Smash.
• Raj wrote on 2010-05-12 22:11

  Quote from Chocklitshop;33855:

  First thing that comes into my head when someone mentions 2h is the 2hand sword Dx.

  
  xP Meh. I should make that clearer next time.
  

  Quote from Aubog007;34097:

  Which one of the 2H'ed weapons has really low min damage?
  Can't stand low min damage... No amount of balance can fix low min damage.

  
  What're you asking?
  Well, if you're human, Claymore has an EXCELLENT minimum damage of 28. o.o
• Fumy wrote on 2010-05-12 22:17

  Quote from Jahrakal;34493:

  [Bare hand damage + weapon damage] * skill multiplier
  [(Bare hand damage) + (first weapon damage) + (second weapon damage)] * skill multiplier
  
  Let's say you have 100 bare hand damage for the sake of calculation.
  
  DSKS: 340 * 2.5 * 2.5 = 2125
  Dual: 389 * 2.5 * 2.5 = 2431.25
  
  So unless you care about that 300 damage difference like me, DSKS still is a good Ego weapon.
  

  
  
  
  DSKS: 340 * 6 * 2.5 = 5100
  Dual: 389 * 5 * 2.5 = 4862.5
  
  only 237 Smash dmg difference D:
• Aubog007 wrote on 2010-05-12 23:56

  Quote from Raj;34594:

  xP Meh. I should make that clearer next time.
  
  What're you asking?
  Well, if you're human, Claymore has an EXCELLENT minimum damage of 28. o.o

  
  
  wasn't asking anything.
  I hate weapons that have a HUGE damage range. (Broad swords that are upgraded. Maces. Things like that.)
  I once had a bipennis with more min than max... that thing was stable as hell.
• Justified wrote on 2010-05-13 00:08

  Quote from Fumy;34600:

  DSKS: 340 * 6 * 2.5 = 5100
  Dual: 389 * 5 * 2.5 = 4862.5
  
  only 237 Smash dmg difference D:

  
  
  The difference in Smash damage gets bigger as your base gets stronger.
  The difference in Windmill damage will stay constant, due to the same multipliers.
  
  DSKS : 440 * 6 * 2.5 = 6,600
  Dual : 489 * 5 * 2.5 = 6,112.5
  
  487 damage difference when your base is 200.
• Syrphid wrote on 2010-05-13 00:11

  Quote from Jahrakal;34493:

  I never had any problems with multi-agro situations with dual-wielding. Barely any of the monsters are more than 2v1 in Hard level Shadow Missions, and Ciar Advanced doesn't need "heavy" agro handling when you can kill everything in 1 Windmill/Smash.

  
  
  Indeed, we have different goals. I just wanted you to recognize that 2hander stun is useful in many situations, even if you do not pursue them regularly.
• Syrion wrote on 2010-05-13 05:42
  yay math =D
  dual wield weapon dmg: 114+175=289
  DSKS weapon dmg:240
  let x be barehanded dmg
  
  smash damage difference=6(240+x)-5(289+x)
  =x-5
  so essentially ur losing ur barehanded dmg with smash
  
  while with windmill u lose 2.5*(289-240)=122.5
  
  so in terms of pure efficiency, a DSKS would be better if your barehanded damage exceeds 214.375 times your average number of targets with windmill (assuming u use both skills equally as often) , which would probably be 2 or 3. (535.9375?)
  
  tho honestly, i think most people bust our their egos when thing get rough and they wanna win rather than for grinding. For those situations, the stun time of a 2 handed ego would likely be more helpful.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-05-13 06:23
  You forgot to add in the secret bonus damage from having a blue flashy on the warsword.
• Jahrakal wrote on 2010-05-13 07:23

  Quote from Archibald;34938:

  You forgot to add in the secret bonus damage from having a blue flashy on the warsword.

  
  
  Oops!!
  
  389 + lim x^x as x->inf
• Raj wrote on 2010-05-14 09:08

  Quote from Aubog007;34682:

  wasn't asking anything.
  I hate weapons that have a HUGE damage range. (Broad swords that are upgraded. Maces. Things like that.)
  I once had a bipennis with more min than max... that thing was stable as hell.

  
  
  Meh. Make your statements clear. >.>