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Archibald wrote on 2011-02-16 05:53
Quote from MSZShadow;337206:
I personally like using the Staff in the first place. Maybe it has to do with some strange hidden function, but my damage is significantly increased with an upgraded staff, when compared to an upgraded wand. I also find myself seriously out-damaging fusion-users that I come across. Obviously, Hailstorm is the one for me.
another mage on Alexina cool. If you get an elite pass let me know and I'll show you how useful hailstorm can be in one.
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Omegatronic wrote on 2011-02-16 07:18
Quote from NotAnElf;334359:
It would save 4 MP per full charge
That's not significant enough.
When you are comparing dmg per mana point and are talking damage in the 10's of thousands, 4 mana points is significant. Do the math with 4 less mana. it changes his conclusions, and that is significant.
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MSZShadow wrote on 2011-02-16 16:09
Quote from Archibald;337690:
another mage on Alexina cool. If you get an elite pass let me know and I'll show you how useful hailstorm can be in one.
Will do. xD
I've actualy gotten rank 2 Hailstorm recently. The only reason I don't use it insanely frequently is because I've been doing Theater Missions, which are currently infested with Ice-Element monsters. :l
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Justified wrote on 2011-02-18 05:46
So I decided to throw Chaincast Firebolt into the mix.
Surprisingly, even using MP10s it doesn't beat Hailstorm in terms of Damage/MP Cost. That's saying a lot for Hailstorm right there.
Although, it does come a bit ahead of Bolt Fusion (10%) and far ahead of Hailstorm (30%) in terms of Damage/second.
I've still decided not to include Ice Mastery into Bolt Fusion calculations. It does boost up the figures for Bolt Fusion a bit, but my main reason is the AP cost shouldn't be too much more than Hailstorm. This is not an optimal comparison (though it's close), more like a plausible one, so Rosemary Gloves are left out as well.
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MSZShadow wrote on 2011-02-18 21:56
Quote from Justified;340042:
So I decided to throw Chaincast Firebolt into the mix.
Surprisingly, even using MP10s it doesn't beat Hailstorm in terms of Damage/MP Cost. That's saying a lot for Hailstorm right there.
Although, it does come a bit ahead of Bolt Fusion (10%) and far ahead of Hailstorm (30%) in terms of Damage/second.
I've still decided not to include Ice Mastery into Bolt Fusion calculations. It does boost up the figures for Bolt Fusion a bit, but my main reason is the AP cost shouldn't be too much more than Hailstorm. This is not an optimal comparison (though it's close), more like a plausible one, so Rosemary Gloves are left out as well.
Chaincast Firebolt kills Wand Durability ungodly fast, as well.
Still, I find Hailstorm to be more useful in practice, in serious combat. Numbers don't always tell the whole truth.
Also, Rosemary Gloves? I wasn't aware they had any effect other than allowing you to hold the Flaming Sword/Sword of Elsinore.
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Justified wrote on 2011-02-18 22:06
Quote from MSZShadow;340591:
Chaincast Firebolt kills Wand Durability ungodly fast, as well.
Still, I find Hailstorm to be more useful in practice, in serious combat. Numbers don't always tell the whole truth.
Also, Rosemary Gloves? I wasn't aware they had any effect other than allowing you to hold the Flaming Sword/Sword of Elsinore.
I find it very hard to use in comparison to Bolt Fusion, although I'll reserve my final decision for rank 1. CC+4 Firebolt may actually use less durability than Bolt Fusion, but it should be about equal. The problem is the large MP Cost or dependence on MP10s, which can be annoying to gather.
Rosemary Gloves boost Ice attribute by 15%. It's a noteworthy boost, but as far as legitimacy goes it's not practical to include as very few Hailstorm users will get one.
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Archibald wrote on 2011-02-18 23:32
I don;t think they are apples to apples really. The use of the skills is very different. I use bolt fusion as a support skill while using inter magics. And I use hailstorm all on its own when doing elite missions.
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Rozel wrote on 2011-02-21 03:46
Me, I'm going with Trinity. A wand should be suggested to full mages, but I'm an ice-blade - I'm mostly trained in ice magic like icespear, icebolt, etc. Still working on getting Hailstorm though. And I also like to switch my weapons a lot for a variety of combat rather then be stuck to one weapon for a long time. Trinity allows me to change to melee with ease, and back again when I need it. Plus, I'm fine with spamming a couple icebolts in order to use Ice Spear. R1 ice is fun to spam when I'm lazy xD But yeah, hailstorm for me, I guess. I love using my trinity a lot, and I'll be ready to cast hailstorm when needed. Plus, the animations rock when smashing and windmilling with it! :P Oh, and don't forget repairs... I hate repairing. I don't care how much it costs, I'm always nervous repairing and sometimes I'd rather just spam dungeons all day then take trips to Dunby for a repair or two.
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Justified wrote on 2011-02-21 05:58
^ A couple other problems found with Trinity magic is that Advanced Magic may have shorter range (meaning Ice Spear will be as short as bolt magic) and that using any other bolt even just once will completely deplete your charge, so your magic selection is extremely restricted.
These are two things I've found so far that bug me while using a Staff. I've never had the need to swap between melee and Staff so far, so the evap thing hasn't been exploited by me yet.
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MSZShadow wrote on 2011-02-21 16:39
Quote from Justified;343734:
^ A couple other problems found with Trinity magic is that Advanced Magic may have shorter range (meaning Ice Spear will be as short as bolt magic) and that using any other bolt even just once will completely deplete your charge, so your magic selection is extremely restricted.
These are two things I've found so far that bug me while using a Staff. I've never had the need to swap between melee and Staff so far, so the evap thing hasn't been exploited by me yet.
I've never experienced a shortening of Intermediate spell range while using the Trinity Staff. The spell range increase that wands provide only applies to Bolts, so only Bolts will have shorter range.
Yes, and no. The staff provides a significant amount of flexibility for Intermediate spells, as that's what it's designed for (As well as Advanced spells). I rarely use bolts, but when I do, it's the bolt I want to use anyway. I don't know about you, but I usually fight with spells that can exploit the weaknesses of my enemy.
Also keep in mind that Advanced spells such as Hailstorm have no such elemental restrictions.
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Rozel wrote on 2011-02-21 17:23
Quote from Justified;343734:
^ A couple other problems found with Trinity magic is that Advanced Magic may have shorter range (meaning Ice Spear will be as short as bolt magic) and that using any other bolt even just once will completely deplete your charge, so your magic selection is extremely restricted.
These are two things I've found so far that bug me while using a Staff. I've never had the need to swap between melee and Staff so far, so the evap thing hasn't been exploited by me yet.
I'm mainly an ice mage, so I rarely switch to a different bolt magic unless I know I'm specifically wanting to train it or use it for certain enemies. Usually I don't use icebolt and firebolt random together. And my icespear isn't that great at the moment either, so I don't mind not using it. Also, when I'm rafting, I have no need to use firebolt or lightning bolt. R1 ice easily kills goblins while I can't use icespear. When I do need to use icespear and don't want to use icebolt a lot I can just take out my ice wand for things like Falias Fragment, but sense I'm a melee mage I enjoy switching between staff and gladius in an instant without mana loss. I mostly just use the staff for spamming, good skill exp and with every few bolts it becomes more and more powerful<3
Plus, I get a smexy pose!
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Justified wrote on 2011-02-22 03:49
Quote from MSZShadow;344102:
I've never experienced a shortening of Intermediate spell range while using the Trinity Staff. The spell range increase that wands provide only applies to Bolts, so only Bolts will have shorter range.
You obviously don't pay enough attention then. [s]I will post a video demonstration in a minute after I finish uploading.[/s]
[video=youtube;U3_eVF-7tH0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3_eVF-7tH0[/video]
Excuse the low quality. You'll notice that the wand icon has the [RANGE OUT] tag (or in this case, a blur) underneath the gate with a Staff, but reaches past the shadow with a Wand.
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Rozel wrote on 2011-02-22 05:15
Ah, so a wand IS slightly further, however the difference isn't much, and if you were in a small dungeon room I think that wouldn't matter too much.
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EndlessDreams wrote on 2011-02-22 05:21
Quote from Rozel;345602:
Ah, so a wand IS slightly further, however the difference isn't much, and if you were in a small dungeon room I think that wouldn't matter too much.
It should be a 200 range difference, which most people can't tell anyways. IS range is short anyways.
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Justified wrote on 2011-02-22 06:13
Quote from Rozel;345602:
Ah, so a wand IS slightly further, however the difference isn't much, and if you were in a small dungeon room I think that wouldn't matter too much.
200 range is the difference between rF and r1 Windmill. It's almost a 15% drop in range.
Quote from EndlessDreams;345619:
It should be a 200 range difference, which most people can't tell anyways. IS range is short anyways.
On the contrary, it is significant
because the range is already short. Another example is the width of Ice Spear is 200 at F and 300 at 1, yet that 100 distance makes a very noticeable difference in practice.