General Melee Discussion - WM is not being nerfed in G14

• Koishi wrote on 2011-04-08 17:34
  http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Windmill
  
  "Following the G14S2 Patch, Windmill's damage will be halved while in Deadly status."
  
  Windmill-based melee combat was obsolete as it is, offering marginally less damage per hit for significantly more risk. It only dominated when there were low HP/high damage mobs with predictable aggro patterns. Without the ability to spam it at any time, and without the addition of further options to melee combat (other than Lance Mastery, and we don't know whether that's not a gimmick yet), there is absolutely no practical reason to specialize in melee.
  
  The only way to avoid having your damage gimped after 10 WMs is:
  
  1: have a high rank healer in the party
  2: spam LOTS of HP pots.
  
  So, barring this, how is melee supposed to deal consistent damage? To take advantage of their most powerful skill, they essentially have to consume potions like mages, except that mages deal more damage with greater distance. Or they can rely on Smash/combos and be dead weight in most parties.
  
  Windmill needed to be buffed, not significantly nerfed.
  
  (incidentally, this nerfs Golems FAR beyond what an appropriate nerf would be. Rank 6 WM for non magic ones is acceptable. Rank 6 for non magic ones PLUS being only able to WM 10 times at max before becoming relatively useless is not.)
• MikeHo wrote on 2011-04-08 17:39
  hahaha ya i saw this awhile ago. Kind of dumb because the risk we take for doing high damage and spamming wm is being in the deadly status where a rock can kill us. I mean all this really does is force us to carry HP pots and never go into deadly. which is kind of annoying.
• Cynic wrote on 2011-04-08 17:40
  That's pretty stupid.
  The Devs aren't a big fan of WM lately, are they?
• NotAnElf wrote on 2011-04-08 17:42
  You got trolled by kentngo.
• Yanm wrote on 2011-04-08 17:42
  I have two things to say to this.
  
  1. I'm not surprised at all. Everyone did agree that windmill was a very good skill, probably the best in the game. Not surprised at all by this.
  
  2. Now it'll be mandatory for a windmiller to rank up Life Drain. Expect Life Drain crystals to skyrocket in price heh....
• Sumpfkraut wrote on 2011-04-08 17:45
  Aren't there any other melee playstyles?
  
  
  It's pretty sad if the most elegant of fighting styles only revolves around a single ridiculously overpowered alteration of a Capoeira move. That's what Windmill looks like on YT-videos at any rate~
• Worldend wrote on 2011-04-08 17:46
  I can think of several reasons:
  
  1. Most people don't Windmill spam in deadly unless you're dealing with things like zombies, or unless **** really hits the fan and you have several aggro'd mobs coming at you at the same time. Halved damage doesn't change anything except for the number of Windmills you have to do.
  2. Smash to AS to WM to Smash is usually good enough to kill most things with end game melee
  3. Melee is still fun.
  
  AS was a real boon for melee, and since lances ignore up to 14% prot, windmill's ability to ignore prot when calculating crit is less important.
  
  tl;dr [video=youtube;gvdf5n-zI14]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14[/video]
• Koishi wrote on 2011-04-08 17:46

  Quote from Yanm;401582:

  I have two things to say to this.
  
  1. I'm not surprised at all. Everyone did agree that windmill was a very good skill, probably the best in the game. Not surprised at all by this.

  
  
  No, Windmill was a good skill when all the mobs could be oneshotted by endgame melee. It's not a good skill when the mobs need 3 or 4 WMs to go down by an endgame meleer.
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2011-04-08 17:48
  For real?
• qaccy wrote on 2011-04-08 17:49

  Quote from Koishi;401576:

  http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Windmill
  
  "Following the G14S2 Patch, Windmill's damage will be halved while in Deadly status."
  
  Windmill-based melee combat was obsolete as it is, offering marginally less damage per hit for significantly more risk. It only dominated when there were low HP/high damage mobs with predictable aggro patterns. Without the ability to spam it at any time, and without the addition of further options to melee combat (other than Lance Mastery, and we don't know whether that's not a gimmick yet), there is absolutely no practical reason to specialize in melee.
  
  The only way to avoid having your damage gimped after 10 WMs is:
  
  1: have a high rank healer in the party
  2: spam LOTS of HP pots.
  
  So, barring this, how is melee supposed to deal consistent damage? To take advantage of their most powerful skill, they essentially have to consume potions like mages, except that mages deal more damage with greater distance. Or they can rely on Smash/combos and be dead weight in most parties.
  
  [B]Windmill needed to be buffed, not significantly nerfed.
  
  (incidentally, this nerfs Golems FAR beyond what an appropriate nerf would be. Rank 6 WM for non magic ones is acceptable. Rank 6 for non magic ones PLUS being only able to WM 10 times at max before becoming relatively useless is not.)

  
  
  You're joking, right? The invincibility ALONE made WM a godly skill, even before factoring in how it can hit a limitless amount of targets, and ignores protection for critical (the only melee skill to do so, I might add). A buff? I lol'd hard.
  
  As for me, I love it. Sucks for all the people who built their characters around WM though. And people who use Avenger. :x
• RicochetOrange wrote on 2011-04-08 17:52
  But I like regular melee. :(
  
  As in, not spamming WM.
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2011-04-08 17:52
  Actually, people who use Avenger and other deadly-related enchants might probably restore the damage to what the original WM should be doing without Avenger.
  
  Which actually makes the enchant still fairly relevant even after such a nerf. (Though no one has numbers yet.)
• Koishi wrote on 2011-04-08 17:52

  Quote from qaccy;401593:

  [B]
  
  You're joking, right? The invincibility ALONE made WM a godly skill

  
  
  And if you fail to drop the mob, you're dead unless you can pet swipe. Stop assuming everyone can pet swipe.
  
  

  , even before factoring in how it can hit a limitless amount of targets

  
  
  I rarely hit more than 4 targets with a given WM.
  
  

  and ignores protection for critical (the only melee skill to do so, I might add).

  
  
  So we should nerf Thunder, Crash, IS, FB, skills with much bigger multipliers that you can use from a distance?
• NotAnElf wrote on 2011-04-08 17:53

  Quote from NotAnElf;401581:

  You got trolled by kentngo.

  
  Do de do.
• Worldend wrote on 2011-04-08 17:58
  Actually, I see two possibilities here. Either:
  
  1. everyone starts enchanting **** with Moment
  
  or
  
  

  Quote from NotAnElf;401581:

  You got trolled by kentngo.

  
  
  2. Everyone here just got trolled hard.
  
  Considering the fact that this is the first time we heard about it, and the fact that it's a wiki we're talking about here. I would say, don't count on making a fortune off of Moments. Just Saiyan