Guild Loot Systems

• Aubog007 wrote on 2010-05-31 14:58

  Quote from Justified;51330:

  Guilds gain new members. Do you instantly trust this member?
  
  It's not just about stealing either. Everybody in the guild has something they need/want money for. Personally, I'm ranking enchant, trying to recover items I lost from the server chaos, and feeding my new ego. I need money for everything I'm currently doing in game, and if I don't want to spend months doing it then amassing 1mil a day doesn't cut it. I need as much gold as I can from the run, but I don't want to shaft the other people in my party.
  
  Selling and splitting evenly brings up the base questions again.
  Does everybody deserve an equal cut? Even if most of the work was handled by 1 or 2 people out of the entire 8? I sure as hell wouldn't be entirely happy with that.
  And what if we actually want the item worth 5mil+ and don't want to sell it? The point of dungeoning guilds is having people to run with so that you can get the best stuff, why run the dungeon and sell the item just so you can buy that same item later down the line? Having a system to distribute these things fairly can be extremely useful.

  
  
  Your opinions and my opinions are different. Neither one is right nor wrong.
  My system states that if someone needs an expensive item that they should let the guild know days in advance. If someone states in the middle of the run they need something. They are SOL.
  
  And for the whole money thing. I bought a lot of herbs back in my Ruairian days to get rank 1 potion making before 2nd place got rank 3. I hoarded enough money and spent enough money to have 25m in gold in G3. Everyone gets and uses money in their own ways. This is why I don't understand how people use up so much money so fast. Simple dungeons replenish that gold. Alby inter for 4, Fiodh Inter for 4.
  Although I guess that's because I have loads more patience in this game than ANYONE I know.
• Justified wrote on 2010-05-31 15:14

  Quote from Aubog007;51342:

  Your opinions and my opinions are different. Neither one is right nor wrong.
  
  Everyone gets and uses money in their own ways. This is why I don't understand how people use up so much money so fast. Simple dungeons replenish that gold. Alby inter for 4, Fiodh Inter for 4.

  
  
  Not asserting that I'm right or that you're wrong, just that your system may not work for my guild in particular.
  
  As far as I can tell, Hardmode dungeons are much more profitable than A4/F4. It can take 10+ of those runs just to snag a single page worth 1-2mil (which is still needed for guild members, so we wouldn't be selling it anyways), while a good Hardmode prize worth 2mil+ can usually be found in fewer runs. They're more fun and provide more exp as well.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2010-05-31 15:30
  Wasn't saying you asserted. Sorry for the implication. I said that because our opinions always seem to clash.
  

  Quote from Justified;51356:

  Not asserting that I'm right or that you're wrong, just that your system may not work for my guild in particular.
  
  As far as I can tell, Hardmode dungeons are much more profitable than A4/F4. It can take 10+ of those runs just to snag a single page worth 1-2mil (which is still needed for guild members, so we wouldn't be selling it anyways), while a good Hardmode prize worth 2mil+ can usually be found in fewer runs. They're more fun and provide more exp as well.

  
  
  Not everyone though is over total level 250
  This account is freshly made and it's only 180.
  I don't have experience in HM drop rates or profit rates so I can't really comment on that.
  I can only comment on what I personally have done.
  
  And I personally find A4/F4 to be a good learning experience for newer guildmates.
• Hiccup wrote on 2010-05-31 17:20

  Quote from Aubog007;51322:

  Wow. Everyone here doesn't trust a soul at all in their guilds.
  
  Never realized everyone here was paranoid that people might be screwing you.
  You do know if they sell it behind your back that means they fail the system and trust...
  

  
  You got screwed over yourself, even though it was once still shows how easily trust can vanish. Besides in the larger guilds 100+ where members are coming and going (mostly newer members leaving) you can't exactly keep up with everything. If they stay for a month or so and earn the respect of the guild/me then I will give em a little. Recently in my guild we had to kick out one of the founding members because they kept instigating fights with the regular guildies. The regulars didn't really do anything wrong but this guy was just stuck on pissing at everyone, so we said goodbye.
  
  Classic case of people turning on ya. :L Which is why trust is a huge issue.
  
  

  My Answer to that? Sell them. Good god if i'm going to run a hellish dungeon with a large group and give away an equip when it can be sold and split evenly.
  I was under the impression it was pages and enchants.

  
  This seems the most practical and safe out of anything. If the guild leader sells it and splits the money then their is no chance of corruption/"theft" (Outside of the fact your giving away a mill or so.) But if your going after an item you could always have the guild leader pick a number and those who want it Dice Roll, whoever gets the number gets it. In case of a tie a new number is chosen and those left duke it out again.
• User495 wrote on 2010-05-31 17:36
  I stopped reading after awhile because all the comments are pretty much filled with greed,
  
  ideally it's "fair to split the reward" but that's only effective if noone in the party really needs it (the item being sold)
  
  but when someone does need it, and you force them to "buy it" after running the dungeon with you, that just isn't fair
  the reason people do dungeons for items is because they can't afford to actually buy them, it's especially not fair if they were the one that had the pass and put alot of effort into getting it.(also telling people they needed it first) but a good deal is when it comes to dungeons, the person that had the pass should be able to decide what happens to it, without him/her noone would be in that specific dungeon
  
  also if the item is so important you shouldn't even be taking strangers with you
  and if you're a real guild there wouldn't really be any distrust between members, unless the guild is just a bunch of people put into a guild not because they're friends but just to be a large guild
  
  and I hate writing long posts cause at the end I'm not totally sure I make sense to people that read it <.<
  
  cause if it doesn't require a pass, general it shouldn't be too difficult to spam it unless it's like Peaca, but then <_< Dragon Blades aren't that rare nowadays
• Intex wrote on 2010-05-31 17:58

  I stopped reading after awhile because all the comments are pretty much filled with greed

  
  We want our fair share, sorry for wanting some money.
  Curare and Justin have helped me out a lot for free, I'd hardly describe them as greedy people.
  I think you should describe this thread as cynical, not greedy.
  
  

  the reason people do dungeons for items is because they can't afford to actually buy them

  
  I don't know about you, but I dungeon for money.
  When I run a dungeon with a friend and he gets the wooden needle blade, do I just give it to him for keeps so that he can sell it himself.
  
  

  but when someone does need it, and you force them to "buy it" after running the dungeon with you, that just isn't fair

  
  If the whole guild toils through a dungeon just so one person who needs it gets it, what about others who needed it?
  What about all the repair costs and potion money? Yeah sure I'll let the guy keep his EJ3 page but if I died 15 times then I'd like SOME compensation.
  
  Also
  

  Quote from Zatrox:

  What is stopping a player from "needing" the rarest item in the loot pile, then moving it to a mule and pawning off the money? :v Untraceable.

  
  
  

  also if the item is so important you shouldn't even be taking strangers with you

  
  Not everyone has a lot of friends who will dungeon with them.
  There's also urgency with pass time and tuesday bonus, if my pass is about to expire then I'll run with whatever help I can find.
  
  

  and if you're a real guild there wouldn't really be any distrust between members

  
  Growing guild need to recruit, there are new members people might not really know well.
  If I don't trust him should I isolate him from our weekly guild run?
  I will let him run to BUILD TRUST but that doesn't mean I trust him completely.
  
  

  cause if it doesn't require a pass, general it shouldn't be too difficult to spam it unless it's like Peaca

  
  ???
  Most rare loots require a pass.
• Zatrox wrote on 2010-05-31 17:58
  Our comments "pertain" to greed because neither I nor my guild members want to be lulled into a false sense of security, only to be duped by another player :awesome:
  
  ===
  
  

  the reason people do dungeons for items is because they can't afford to actually buy them, it's especially not fair if they were the one that had the pass and put alot of effort into getting it.(also telling people they needed it first) but a good deal is when it comes to dungeons, the person that had the pass should be able to decide what happens to it, without him/her noone would be in that specific dungeon

  
  
  This is completely wrong. I don't run Rabbie Adv. because I can't afford IS2; I run the dungeon so I can profit. The system we wish to establish is one that will evenly distribute "big game" profits so that there are no disputes when it comes time to cash out.
  
  

  and if you're a real guild there wouldn't really be any distrust between members, unless the guild is just a bunch of people put into a guild not because they're friends but just to be a large guild

  
  
  Another bout of naivete. Sure, our guild is tight knit, but how well do we /actually/ know eachother? Very few of us are connected outside of the game, and though we'd all like to believe that people are good, many players change once they get their hands on some serious loot.
  
  This is why we wish to implement a drop system, so there is no room for disputing how the drops are split, whether or not to split, etc.
  Saves lots of headaches especially when dealing with end-game drops.
• Intex wrote on 2010-05-31 18:02
  We're all so cynical :D
• Aubog007 wrote on 2010-05-31 18:26
  And why does noone KNOW what to do with the items or enchants or pages in this thread until AFTER it drops.
  Assign who gets what if said item drops BEFORE the run occurs. Not during or after. (unless i am misunderstanding.)
  Or else rampant complaining and moaning will occur. People complain the MOST after a dungeon is over because of the cost of dungeoning... You knew what you were going into before hand... Don't complain about potions or repair costs... I never do.
  
  People always say harsh things at the end of a dungeon because of rage or anger from dying or using too many potions.
  
  I used 30 Dura and 400 Hp 30's and 150 SP 30's from rabbie adv spam yesterday and i was killed over and over.
  Didn't care in the bit after it was over. The game is made to be a time occupier and to have fun. Not to fret over.
  
  
  

  Quote from bradstrt;51436:

  You got screwed over yourself, even though it was once still shows how easily trust can vanish. Besides in the larger guilds 100+ where members are coming and going (mostly newer members leaving) you can't exactly keep up with everything. If they stay for a month or so and earn the respect of the guild/me then I will give em a little. Recently in my guild we had to kick out one of the founding members because they kept instigating fights with the regular guildies. The regulars didn't really do anything wrong but this guy was just stuck on pissing at everyone, so we said goodbye.
  
  Classic case of people turning on ya. :L Which is why trust is a huge issue.
  
  
  This seems the most practical and safe out of anything. If the guild leader sells it and splits the money then their is no chance of corruption/"theft" (Outside of the fact your giving away a mill or so.) But if your going after an item you could always have the guild leader pick a number and those who want it Dice Roll, whoever gets the number gets it. In case of a tie a new number is chosen and those left duke it out again.

  
  
  That incident made everyone else in the guild grew together ironically.
  
  
  Oh i apologize if i sounded brash or rude. Was not my intention.
• Arrionso wrote on 2010-05-31 20:12
  For us it's always been whoever kills the monster/opens the chest with the item keeps it. Luck of the draw. This person can then decide if they want to hand it to another guild member, split its profit, or just use it for themselves. No hard feelings either way.
  
  There are situations where we do specific dungeons for a certain item though. In these instances we all agree to give the item we're looking for (EJ, IS, AR8, etc etc) to the person who needs it or has been looking for it for some time. If no one needs it then we just sell it and split the profit amongst the folks who ran the dungeon or agree to hand it to a fellow guildie who needs it but didn't have a chance to run with us.
  
  We've never run into situations where a member would "steal" the item we were looking for either. Everyone's always been pretty laid back about these things. Though if it were to ever occur, we'd be down one member. It all comes down to trust and maturity.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2010-05-31 20:15

  Quote from Arrionso;51592:

  For us it's always been whoever kills the monster/opens the chest with the item keeps it. Luck of the draw. This person can then decide if they want to hand it to another guild member, split its profit, or just use it for themselves. No hard feelings either way.
  
  There are situations where we do specific dungeons for a certain item though. In these instances we all agree to give the item we're looking for (EJ, IS, AR8, etc etc) to the person who needs it or has been looking for it for some time. If no one needs it then we just sell it and split the profit amongst the folks who ran the dungeon or agree to hand it to a fellow guildie who needs it but didn't have a chance to run with us.
  We've never run into situations where a member would "steal" the item we were looking for either. Everyone's always been pretty laid back about these things.

  
  
  Pretty much how it is. If i don't make a rule the drop is FFA. Unless it's worth more than 1m
• Creampuff wrote on 2010-05-31 20:33
  I've never really had a problem with looting; that being said, I don't run very many dungeons where the drops are potentially worth over 1 million. In the one case where I've had help running A4 for AR8, I was able to get the page for no cost since I had already indicated that I was looking to complete my AR book (I trained range before melee). The help + the free page was definitely much appreciated, and I am very grateful to the guildmates and one stranger who ran with me.
  
  When it comes to more expensive drops, I'm pretty laid back about the money split, but to me it would make sense to split any items that no one intended for personal use. If they ran the dungeon with the intention of keeping one of the potential drops, then ideally they should make that known to all the runners well beforehand.
  
  @Zat: I think last week worked out okay; Bun was able to keep a little more of the cash since it was from his chest, but the other runners still got more or less an even share. =) I'm pretty happy about how the whole thing ended.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-05-31 21:42
  This is partially why players like Trigger and myself solo dungeons when we really want something from it. Generally we are the strongest member and do most of the hard work in party runs. Pretty much most of the runs I do I kill more than half the mobs even when there is 8 people running. But at the end normally we just let whoever gets it keep it because you look like a jerk saying "Look, I did the heavy lifting pass me the rare item." This is why I created the Mana Master in the first place. Not because I don't like running with friends (still do if they are strong) but because I needed a way for me to get out what I put in in effort. I can't handle running normal dungeons anymore unless I am teaching a player how to do something. They are just too easy and I basically end up soloing with a tag along unless I consciously sit in a corner in some rooms to let them play.
• Justified wrote on 2010-05-31 22:15

  Quote from Archibald;51666:

  This is partially why players like Trigger and myself solo dungeons when we really want something from it.

  
  
  I saw this coming when Archi had the last post. xD
  
  But anyways, in the long term where guild members are constantly running with each other, it makes sense to have a system that fairly distributes gold or items to each person. "Splitting equally" can work in single finds or when nobody wants the item, but if you continuously split equally with somebody who you think doesn't deserve it for whatever reason then resentment grows. The scales are also tipped when somebody claims they want an item - I could easily say I "need/want" Lion Hunter every time it drops. People commonly have more than 1 weapon, what's my limit on how many I should get?
  
  
  iirc - Zyrus has a dungeon running partner. He has a very simple 2-man system on what happens to the loot. A guild system is the same thing, but has considerations for more people, and for people who aren't currently in the run.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-05-31 22:21
  I've type casted myself into the selfish soloing higher level player. ouch.
  
  KISS Method: Keep it simple stupid. 2 man run (predetermine) 5-8 FFA.