Guild Loot Systems

• BobYoMeowMeow wrote on 2010-05-31 22:25
  Put the diablo loot system
  but they're gonna have to redo the naming and triggers of all the equipment
  and the item system itself
• pataterose wrote on 2010-05-31 22:55
  when i hunt for money im usualy doing so alone.
  
  when i go into a dungeon because someone needs something in it, we all decide what drops goes to who before going in it (if someone doesn't agree, he can leave), as most valuable (all in most case) are known.
  
  i think its important to do dungeons that are of your level. don't try ciar adv hm when you just got your lvl250, odds are you will be leeching off of someone (if all the party is around 250, sure, but its gonna be hella long xD). As long as you dont bring underpowered people, nobody should whine about doing all the work.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-05-31 23:00
  I don't whine about underpowered people its underpowered dungeons I hate. And I only run dungeons with others for fun not for items (unless I'm helping a friend get a specific item). I do typically avoid going into dungeons with people less than 1k as it usually ends up with the pre-formentioned results.
• User495 wrote on 2010-06-01 05:16
  <_< like I said I don't like long posts, at least me making them- I don't mind reading them at all,
  
  anyways while reading the reply keep in mind, I was sorta thinking of runs where, people that needed the specific item, got the pass/ is the one that has the pass (thus having more right to get the item in the end)
  
  
  
  

  Quote from Intex;51459:

  We want our fair share, sorry for wanting some money.
  Curare and Justin have helped me out a lot for free, I'd hardly describe them as greedy people.
  I think you should describe this thread as cynical, not greedy.

  
  
  I guess I did use the wrong word, but that was the what I thought off the top of my head at the time
  and I'm not sure if I mentioned (cause I had to retype the post) I usually keep in mind to get at least enough gold to be able to repair my stuff from the run,
  
  and I typed that with the idea that usually you're not killing anything if you're not making sufficient amount of money in the dungeon,that and the end chest should give a good amount of money enough for repairs and etc (so if you didn't lose any dura, or exp what exactly did you lose? and how is it "your fair share" if you're just sitting around (I understand people might die before being able to kill something or they get "KS-ed" but if that's the case you shouldn't be in the dungeon, and if you get KS'd might as well let them do the work
  
  

  I don't know about you, but I dungeon for money.
  When I run a dungeon with a friend and he gets the wooden needle blade, do I just give it to him for keeps so that he can sell it himself.

  
  
  I dungeon for money, but I don't necessarily do the harder dungeons for money, (actually I barely do anything above Intermediate, counting hardmode as above regular Intermediate) I tend to do dungeons only if I can have a casual time doing them xD
  
  
  

  If the whole guild toils through a dungeon just so one person who needs it gets it, what about others who needed it?
  What about all the repair costs and potion money? Yeah sure I'll let the guy keep his EJ3 page but if I died 15 times then I'd like SOME compensation.
  

  
  
  I think I've answered that with my first quote, but also you decided to go in to his run, and this is also assuming HE was the reason you're even able to get in (cause he had the pass, and could easily have asked someone else, if you didn't volunteer) all of that isn't dependent on the person just because you could've just said no
  
  

  Not everyone has a lot of friends who will dungeon with them.
  There's also urgency with pass time and tuesday bonus, if my pass is about to expire then I'll run with whatever help I can find.

  
  
  I suppose I also don't fully understand that because I usually am able to get friends to help, and if not so be it, no big deal (and I think this thread was sorta geared towards the idea that people are in a guild, and thus they DO have the people for it)
  
  

  Growing guild need to recruit, there are new members people might not really know well.
  If I don't trust him should I isolate him from our weekly guild run?
  I will let him run to BUILD TRUST but that doesn't mean I trust him completely.

  
  
  also as I've said to not bring strangers to important dungeon runs/(if the the item is that important to get)
  
  
  

  ???
  Most rare loots require a pass.

  
  
  ... that was sorta the point of me saying that (but also considering Shadow Missions, cause they don't really require any passes, and they sometimes do drop something good)
  
  ok, yeah I really don't like long posts (last time you'll see me in this thread xD, not looking back so sorry if some of it does sound stupid)
• Syrphid wrote on 2010-06-01 05:48

  Quote from Sevian;51445:

  I stopped reading after awhile because all the comments are pretty much filled with greed,
  
  ideally it's "fair to split the reward" but that's only effective if noone in the party really needs it (the item being sold)
  
  but when someone does need it, and you force them to "buy it" after running the dungeon with you, that just isn't fair
  the reason people do dungeons for items is because they can't afford to actually buy them, it's especially not fair if they were the one that had the pass and put alot of effort into getting it.(also telling people they needed it first) but a good deal is when it comes to dungeons, the person that had the pass should be able to decide what happens to it, without him/her noone would be in that specific dungeon
  
  also if the item is so important you shouldn't even be taking strangers with you
  and if you're a real guild there wouldn't really be any distrust between members, unless the guild is just a bunch of people put into a guild not because they're friends but just to be a large guild
  
  and I hate writing long posts cause at the end I'm not totally sure I make sense to people that read it <.<
  
  cause if it doesn't require a pass, general it shouldn't be too difficult to spam it unless it's like Peaca, but then <_< Dragon Blades aren't that rare nowadays

  
  
  I am currently hunting destruction es to complete my demi lich 2hander. This es drops in siren hard mode, a dungeon I definitely need help with. So I get a bunch of guildies together and run through siren a few times until destruction drops. They give it to me since I was working for it. The next day we run an f4 together and fb10 drops. We cut and sell. Should I get a cut?
  
  Under the normal cut & sell + donate to the needy system that everyone is so used to, yes I would be entitled to my cut. But wouldn't it be more fair if I seceded my portion, since in a way, the others gave me theirs on the previous siren hunt? The others are not in a position to ask me to do so. I normally would not.
  
  You see, by implementing a loot system we actually protect the selfless from those who are more needy.
  
  I am unsure why we are being accused of greed. The whole point of a loot distribution system is just to hand out loot in the most equitable way possible.
• SkyWyvern wrote on 2010-06-01 09:56

  Quote from Sevian;51445:

  I stopped reading after awhile because all the comments are pretty much filled with greed,
  
  ideally it's "fair to split the reward" but that's only effective if noone in the party really needs it (the item being sold)
  
  but when someone does need it, and you force them to "buy it" after running the dungeon with you, that just isn't fair
  the reason people do dungeons for items is because they can't afford to actually buy them, it's especially not fair if they were the one that had the pass and put alot of effort into getting it.(also telling people they needed it first) but a good deal is when it comes to dungeons, the person that had the pass should be able to decide what happens to it, without him/her noone would be in that specific dungeon
  
  also if the item is so important you shouldn't even be taking strangers with you
  and if you're a real guild there wouldn't really be any distrust between members, unless the guild is just a bunch of people put into a guild not because they're friends but just to be a large guild
  
  and I hate writing long posts cause at the end I'm not totally sure I make sense to people that read it <.<
  
  cause if it doesn't require a pass, general it shouldn't be too difficult to spam it unless it's like Peaca, but then <_< Dragon Blades aren't that rare nowadays

  
  
  This man deserves an award. Listen to him.
• Tedio wrote on 2010-06-01 11:01
  I would just designate who gets the item, when it drops, the person could just trade it to whoever needs it.
  I doubt alot of people would just screw a entire guild over, If they wanter the item they could just ask them for another few runs or something....
• Justified wrote on 2010-06-01 13:53
  Consider another hypothetical then.
  
  A wants several items.
  B is in a run where item drops, but it goes to A.
  B is offline, and the guild runs several more dungeons with A.
  B gets on and joins another run where an item A wants is found, it goes to A.
  B again misses more runs because s/he isn't as active as everybody else.
  B gets on again. An item drops that both s/he and A want. Because of the several runs A was in where B wasn't, they decide to give it to A.
  
  B gets upset that A gets everything. Guild is confused because A participated in several runs where loot was shared with other members. They call B paranoid. B gets angry and leaves the guild.
  
  
  Often times, people aren't aware how discontented people are with how splits are handled. When 6 of your guildmates agree to give somebody an item, most people would just stay silent even if they don't think it's fair - and it may not be. If you take every run on an individual run-by-run basis, you may be shafting somebody similar to the above scenario without intending to do so.
  A good system would eliminate the spur judgement in designating who gets what. Since parties don't always consist of the same people, effort vs reward can be extremely high for some and abysmally low for others.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2010-06-01 13:59

  Quote from Justified;52100:

  Consider another hypothetical then.
  
  A wants several items.
  B is in a run where item drops, but it goes to A.
  B is offline, and the guild runs several more dungeons with A.
  B gets on and joins another run where an item A wants is found, it goes to A.
  B again misses more runs because s/he isn't as active as everybody else.
  B gets on again. An item drops that both s/he and A want. Because of the several runs A was in where B wasn't, they decide to give it to A.
  
  B gets upset that A gets everything. Guild is confused because A participated in several runs where loot was shared with other members. They call B paranoid. B gets angry and leaves the guild.
  
  
  Often times, people aren't aware how discontented people are with how splits are handled. When 6 of your guildmates agree to give somebody an item, most people would just stay silent even if they don't think it's fair - and it may not be. If you take every run on an individual run-by-run basis, you may be shafting somebody similar to the above scenario without intending to do so.
  A good system would eliminate the spur judgement in designating who gets what. Since parties don't always consist of the same people, effort vs reward can be extremely high for some and abysmally low for others.

  
  
  Which is why i enjoy my system.
  Gotta figure it out before-hand of the run.
  I've been in this situation where someone couldn't do something because their computer was unable to actually function there. Guild gets the item that person needs but someone at the last second wanted it and then the guild gave said item to person who wanted it at the last second. Is it the first person's fault their computer could not handle it? I left the guild that i was in for a year and a half...Can't stand it when people change their mind because the item of value actually drops.
  I swore never to let that happen with any guild i ran or had large authority in. (This was in a different game)
  
  
  I'm actually not immune to greed. When i get the item that someone called for before the run began... I IMMEDIATELY trade it to them before the greed in me sets in.
• Ekaterin wrote on 2010-06-01 14:25
  If you're running a dungeon for a page for a skill for a specific member, they get the page. Usually, they provide the pass as well.
  
  If you're running for profit (often glowing, rabbie adv, or fiodh 4), sell the page and split the money evenly, after accounting for expenses to statue provider and designated seller.
  
  If you run a very difficult dungeon and get a high-value (say 3M+) drop to sell, I split with the party, but the lucky person who got the drop gets the lion's share. If it's a good but lower value item, chest opener gets the item.
  
  I don't generally run with leeches. My new guild was made of people about my level so none of us is really ever leeching off the stronger members. We all kick ass.
• Syrphid wrote on 2010-06-01 15:41
  Here is yet another scenario which is not handled well by the current cut and share system.
  
  Player A helps out in many guild runs, giving away cuts in ar8, fb10, etc., so that his guildies can use them.
  
  Player A logs on 2 minutes before a super rare page hunt is about to take place for profit, and does less than his share of the work (for reasons like rl afk and lag). That super rare page drops, and player A could use it, but is not in a position to ask for it, even though he deserves it because of his previous generosity.
  
  

  Quote from SkyWyvern;52062:

  This man deserves an award. Listen to him.

  
  
  That dude's already been rebutted multiple times. Until he or you or someone else steps up to defend his words, I think it's fair to say he doesn't know what he's talking about.
  
  In any event, I feel like a lot of people in this thread don't understand how resentment can build up even among close guildies who are not particularly materialistic.
  
  The question isn't, does the current cut and sell system function, but, is it the best system?
• Justified wrote on 2010-06-01 15:54

  Quote from Ekaterin;52114:

  If you run a very difficult dungeon and get a high-value (say 3M+) drop to sell, I split with the party, but the lucky person who got the drop gets the lion's share. If it's a good but lower value item, chest opener gets the item.

  
  
  Say a guild finds an item they're looking to sell for big bucks on the 20th run. A person who attended the first 19 runs didn't make it for the 20th, so a different person took the spot. According to the common policy, they earned in one run what everybody else took 20 runs to get. Maybe it even ended up in their chest, meaning they get an even larger cut while doing less than 5% of the work. Meanwhile, the original person ends up with nothing despite all their hard work.
  
  I wouldn't be very happy if somebody else got a lot for nothing while I got nothing for a lot.
  They didn't leech or anything, but the distribution is still imbalanced.
• Syrphid wrote on 2010-06-01 18:21
  I ran a siren hm dungeon with guildies back when I was in BANANA. A destruction es dropped at the end for one of my guildies, who didn't want it. I asked if I could buy it from him, but he chose to give it to another friend, who was one of the founding members, and I guess more popular than I was.
  
  I don't resent either of them personally, I mean, gifting wasn't against the rules. Whoever the es dropped for owned it, and could do whatever they wanted with it. I just felt that, since I worked as hard as my friend did, am I not equally entitled to it?
  
  In the end, after moving on to another guild, I'm still looking for destruction es. I got none of the loot, while my friend received all of it, because I was less popular. I don't feel like popularity should be a factor in loot distribution. I'm not really into endgame equips and all, but I honestly feel some resentment about that. It shouldn't've been that way, and I feel it can be better.
• Bankai231 wrote on 2010-06-01 20:22

  Quote from Syrphid;52173:

  I ran a siren hm dungeon with guildies back when I was in BANANA. A destruction es dropped at the end for one of my guildies, who didn't want it. I asked if I could buy it from him, but he chose to give it to another friend, who was one of the founding members, and I guess more popular than I was.
  
  I don't resent either of them personally, I mean, gifting wasn't against the rules. Whoever the es dropped for owned it, and could do whatever they wanted with it. I just felt that, since I worked as hard as my friend did, am I not equally entitled to it?
  
  In the end, after moving on to another guild, I'm still looking for destruction es. I got none of the loot, while my friend received all of it, because I was less popular. I don't feel like popularity should be a factor in loot distribution. I'm not really into endgame equips and all, but I honestly feel some resentment about that. It shouldn't've been that way, and I feel it can be better.

  
  
  This is so true. Im kind of a guild hopper. I dont stay in the same place often. Sometimes people will just forget about me because "So and so" Is so cool and great.
  
  But yeah I think if the person spent the time to hunt the pass down and then asked his guildies to run it with him to get a item he should have the right for it.
  Its different if you were just leeching off a random pass.
• Kurezan wrote on 2010-06-02 08:39

  Quote from Ekaterin;52114:

  If you're running a dungeon for a page for a skill for a specific member, they get the page. Usually, they provide the pass as well.
  
  If you're running for profit (often glowing, rabbie adv, or fiodh 4), sell the page and split the money evenly, after accounting for expenses to statue provider and designated seller.
  
  If you run a very difficult dungeon and get a high-value (say 3M+) drop to sell, I split with the party, but the lucky person who got the drop gets the lion's share. If it's a good but lower value item, chest opener gets the item.
  
  

  
  
  Thats pretty much how I like things in dungeons. And how I share out the loot.