Abortion

• Chillax wrote on 2010-07-04 20:39

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;81978:

  There is absolutely no justification for abortion. Let us look at some common ones and I will show you why they make no sense.
  
  1) What if the girl was raped? First of all, the vast majority of unwanted pregnancies are due to dumb people having sex when they're not ready for a baby. In that case, they ought to take responsibility for the baby. But back to the whole "rape" issue... Why must an innocent human (the fetus) being die because someone else (the rapist) did something wrong? And yes, the fetus is a human being, it has all 46 chromosomes.
  
  2) What if the girl can't take care of the baby? Put it up for adoption or have a relative or friend take care of it. It may be an inconvenience, but that doesn't justify killing it.
  
  3) What if it has down syndrome? Using that logic, I could justify going around and killing everyone that has down syndrome and saying that I'm being "merciful".
  
  4) Doesn't the girl have the right to decide for herself? Using that logic, the girl would also have the "right" to kill any children of hers that are already born as well.
  
  5) What if the fetus has no consciousness? That logic would justify murdering people in their sleep because sleeping people also lack consciousness.
  
  These are some of the major arguments favoring abortion. If I missed any, then please tell me and I will address them.

  
  
  1. Which is why the definition of life is hotly disputed.
  
  2. I don't think you know what it takes to raise a baby. There are bills to pay, documentation to fill out, and planning to be done. All while you're trying to make sure a squalling baby is fed, changed, and amused. You are trying to make sure your baby becomes a productive member of society, and that takes a good chunk of your lifetime to accomplish.
  
  3. I rarely see that being used as an excuse for abortion.
  
  4. That is why there are limits. Just because smoking is legalized doesn't mean you're allowed to smoke it anywhere you want.
  
  5. There is a difference between a momentary lack of consciousness and a complete lack of consciousness.
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-07-04 21:27

  Quote from Chillax;82077:

  1. Which is why the definition of life is hotly disputed.
  
  2. I don't think you know what it takes to raise a baby. There are bills to pay, documentation to fill out, and planning to be done. All while you're trying to make sure a squalling baby is fed, changed, and amused. You are trying to make sure your baby becomes a productive member of society, and that takes a good chunk of your lifetime to accomplish.
  
  3. I rarely see that being used as an excuse for abortion.
  
  4. That is why there are limits. Just because smoking is legalized doesn't mean you're allowed to smoke it anywhere you want.
  
  5. There is a difference between a momentary lack of consciousness and a complete lack of consciousness.

  
  
  1) I was discussing the definition of a human being, not the definition of life.
  
  2) So does a financial burden justify murder?
  
  3) I was just using down syndrome as an example, it could really be any birth defect.
  
  4) So if I understand you correctly... you say that there is a difference between killing someone inside the womb and killing someone outside the womb?
  
  5) The unconsciousness of the fetus is also temporary.
• Osayidan wrote on 2010-07-04 21:35

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;82125:

  
  5) The unconsciousness of the fetus is also temporary.

  
  
  Major point being that the fetus has not had any yet whereas someone sleeping did just a few hours ago, and will have it again in another few hours.
• Syrphid wrote on 2010-07-04 21:37

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;82125:

  1) I was discussing the definition of a human being, not the definition of life.
  
  2) So does a financial burden justify murder?
  
  3) I was just using down syndrome as an example, it could really be any birth defect.
  
  4) So if I understand you correctly... you say that there is a difference between killing someone inside the womb and killing someone outside the womb?
  
  5) The unconsciousness of the fetus is also temporary.

  
  
  /dramatically pulls out a strand of hair and waves it in your face
  
  Is this a human being? 46 chromosomes, I do believe.
  
  There is a difference between killing something in the womb and clearing away bodily excesses. Fyi your fourth question is inflammatory and misses the point of divergence between pro-life and pro-choice completely. Pro-life people are not anti-choice and pro-choice people are not anti-life, don't waste our time with that.
  
  The consciousness of the fetus does not yet exist.
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-07-04 21:44

  Quote from Syrphid;82139:

  /dramatically pulls out a strand of hair and waves it in your face
  
  Is this a human being? 46 chromosomes, I do believe.
  
  There is a difference between killing something in the womb and clearing away bodily excesses. Fyi your fourth question is inflammatory and misses the point of divergence between pro-life and pro-choice completely. Pro-life people are not anti-choice and pro-choice people are not anti-life, don't waste our time with that.
  
  The consciousness of the fetus does not yet exist.

  
  
  Yes, all cells of the human body do indeed have 46 chromosomes... however, hair isn't a full human being. Don't tell me that you don't know the difference between the different units of life... anyway, here's a review; from simplest to most complex: Cell, Tissue, Organ, Organ System, Body (I believe this is self explanatory in regards to this discussion) Also, the strand of hair has no potential to become anything other than a strand of hair whereas a fetus is less than a year away from becoming a functional CONSCIOUS human being just like you or me. I pose another question to you and all pro choice people, what if YOU had been aborted? Or what if a sibling or a cousin or a friend of yours had been aborted?
• Chillax wrote on 2010-07-04 21:54

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;82125:

  1) I was discussing the definition of a human being, not the definition of life.
  
  2) So does a financial burden justify murder?
  
  3) I was just using down syndrome as an example, it could really be any birth defect.
  
  4) So if I understand you correctly... you say that there is a difference between killing someone inside the womb and killing someone outside the womb?
  
  5) The unconsciousness of the fetus is also temporary.

  
  
  Can you kill something which has no life? That is what the definition of life determines, and which is why, as I said, it is disputed hotly.
  
  

  I pose another question to you and all pro choice people, what if YOU had been aborted? Or what if a sibling or a cousin or a friend of yours had been aborted?

  
  
  I wouldn't exist, neither would my cousin or my friend, and we wouldn't think about these things. But my parents and their parents wanted to have a baby, which is why we currently exist. This can't be said for everyone in the world.
  
  What would you say about killing animals for food?
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2010-07-04 21:59

  Quote from Chillax;82157:

  Can you kill something which has no life? That is what the definition of life determines, and which is why, as I said, it is disputed hotly.

  
  
  Ahh I see... to answer this matter, let us look at the Law of Biogenesis which states that life cannot come from nonliving things. Assuming that a grown human being is a living thing, does it not follow that a fetus is also a living thing because it turns into a grown human since life can only come from living things?
• User495 wrote on 2010-07-04 22:06

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;82161:

  Ahh I see... to answer this matter, let us look at the Law of Biogenesis which states that life cannot come from nonliving things. Assuming that a grown human being is a living thing, does it not follow that a fetus is also a living thing because it turns into a grown human since life can only come from living things?

  
  
  
  lol.. totally ignoring the other question (wonder why noone ever answers that or when they do the excuse is "they're not human"
• Chillax wrote on 2010-07-04 22:10

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;82161:

  Ahh I see... to answer this matter, let us look at the Law of Biogenesis which states that life cannot come from nonliving things. Assuming that a grown human being is a living thing, does it not follow that a fetus is also a living thing because it turns into a grown human since life can only come from living things?

  
  
  Would it also follow that the act of menstruation is murder, since the egg could potentially develop into a human?
  
  I should have made the disputed question clearer: When does life as a human begin? A human fetus is very similar to other mammalian fetuses as well while in the early stages of development.
• Seventy wrote on 2010-07-04 22:19
  Dang sen, you got everyone all worked up mang. xD
• Chillax wrote on 2010-07-04 22:21

  Quote from Seventy;82169:

  Dang sen, you got everyone all worked up mang. xD

  
  
  Well, it is quite a sensitive topic. I don't think anyone's temper is flaring up, though.
• User495 wrote on 2010-07-04 22:21

  Quote from Seventy;82169:

  Dang sen, you got everyone all worked up mang. xD

  
  
  lol this is the debate forums afterall,
  
  and this topic just happened to come up
• Seventy wrote on 2010-07-04 22:25
  Well then, my opinion is pro-choice.
• Kyouriharu wrote on 2010-07-04 22:31
  Believe me, don't assume that one can just throw about 9 months of their lives to support the life of a baby. In California, you're kicked out of a college after 4 to 6 months of non-schooling even with an excuse. With the economy in a slump, when you're out of college, you're really out of college for a while. If the mother is willing to give birth and then give the child to a family member or place it in adoption, the chances of the mother getting back in school would be slightly higher than none. On top of that, many schools don't even accept students in the middle of the year and students who just dropped out and still have that fresh on their record not to mention the social stigma.
  
  Beyond the problems the mother has to endure, the child also has to face some of them in the future. The stigma of being adopted is invisible to most people but it's there. Beyond that, there will always be a sense of malice between the parents and child. I know my parents weren't ready to have me, so they placed me with my cousins for six years. Fourteen years later, I can't bring myself to forgive them; hell, I can't consider them my parents anymore.
  
  Perhaps I'm being a little biased. I've been one who was abandoned by my parents when I was younger and I know a friend who had to go through an abortion and can't even look in the mirror anymore. Just saying that there's more than just giving birth then placing then putting the child aside.
• Zid wrote on 2010-07-04 22:42
  =|
  
  If only there was something better than abortion...
  
  (Is pro-life, but refuses to comment on position)