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Basdeth wrote on 2011-12-07 19:17
Meaning, tank, dps, healer pretty much. Those are the 3 staples in most traditional mmos.
I don't really feel that Vindictus characters follow that trend.
Fiona has a shield, sure, and Evie can heal, but I don't view them as a tank and a healer. Fiona can do some tanky things at times, as can some others, but its not like they have special agro generating abilities with other classes having agro reduction abilities. Bosses that aren't set to always attack the nearest target flip from one character to the next without anything Fiona can specially do to stop it. And Evies heals are an on the side thing, having only two heals that both take less than a second to cast and can't be cast frequently.
I feel like, if someone were to pick a class wanting to fill a special role other than "kill stuff, don't die," they'd find the amount of time they spend in their desired role lacking.
But those are just my thoughts. I'm curious to see others' views on the matter :)
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RebeccaBlack wrote on 2011-12-07 20:05
I had something written out but I felt like it would spark arguments and flaming so I don't feel like posting it.
But basically it depends on how you want to translate Vindictus into a standard MMO. Is the criteria simply damage, defense, and survivability? Then that's easy. Unfortunately that also means over half the classes are useless.
I figure I'll say it anyway, despite the arguments it may cause. Sword Fionas and Scythe Evies are inferior in every single way to at least one other class in Vindictus. One may also argue that Hammer Fionas are better than Sword Lanns at everything going by the criteria. I'm unsure of where Karok stands. Maybe he's good enough if you absorb shock everything that he has a place. I know it would be highly advantageous of him to solo, at the very least.
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Kollin wrote on 2011-12-07 21:48
That is because they were not designed to fit within the specified roles of most MMO characters today.
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Invertex wrote on 2011-12-07 21:55
As RebeccaBlack mentioned, it's not really just "Fiona, Lann, Evie, Karok".
It's probably better if we look at the weapon choices. That number of class doubles (or goes to 7 if you exclude the unreleased Blasters for Karok). Then it all gets really complicated, so I rather not go that far.
Vindi is more like an action game then a MMORPG to be honest, so traditional MMORPG roles don't work at all. Everyone just sort of falls into the role of "Do damage and don't die".
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TLCBonaparte wrote on 2011-12-07 22:28
Frankly I don't see Scythe Evie has anything in traditional rpg role.
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foreignreign wrote on 2011-12-07 23:42
Everyone is DPS.
Everyone is tank.
No one is a healer.
There we go.
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BizarreJuju wrote on 2011-12-08 00:54
Quote from foreignreign;684745:
Everyone is DPS.
Everyone is tank.
No one is a healer.
There we go.
Well staff Evie occasionally hands out Coronas to the
PARTY!!! \o/
[Image: http://www.hd-wallpapers.com/download/corona-on-ice_1920x1080_483-hd.jpg]
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RebeccaBlack wrote on 2011-12-08 01:42
Quote from foreignreign;684745:
Everyone is DPS.
Everyone is tank.
No one is a healer.
There we go.
Not the case at all.
Some characters are obviously better at DPS than others, and being that everything is relative, some characters
are DPS based. To say that all characters are DPS would be saying that all characters do a similar amount of damage with similar gear when played optimally. Go tell a 17K attack 10K defense sword Fiona the reason she got half the damage of a 17K attack 10K defense spear Lann is because she's a bad player.
Some characters are also better tanks than others.
And Staff Evie can heal.
Certainly some classes can both tank
and DPS (Hammer Fionas, others with certain gear etc), but that doesn't make the point any less valid. It just mean some classes have awful balancing issues. Anyone who plays a scythe Evie pretty much knows they're getting ****ed over but does it anyway because they enjoy the class.
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Oizen wrote on 2011-12-08 02:15
No.
There is no tank, everyone dies.
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foreignreign wrote on 2011-12-08 02:35
Quote from RebeccaBlack;684881:
Not the case at all.
Some characters are obviously better at DPS than others, and being that everything is relative, some characters are DPS based. To say that all characters are DPS would be saying that all characters do a similar amount of damage with similar gear when played optimally. Go tell a 17K attack 10K defense sword Fiona the reason she got half the damage of a 17K attack 10K defense spear Lann is because she's a bad player.
Some characters are also better tanks than others.
And Staff Evie can heal.
Certainly some classes can both tank and DPS (Hammer Fionas, others with certain gear etc), but that doesn't make the point any less valid. It just mean some classes have awful balancing issues. Anyone who plays a scythe Evie pretty much knows they're getting ****ed over but does it anyway because they enjoy the class.
Arguing how much damage each class does comparatively isn't really the line of discussion this topic is about though.
Of the three "MMO" roles, sword Fiona is not a tank (cannot hold aggro/threat). She cannot heal. She is able to deal consistent damage and it is her main function to do so. Therefore, DPS class.
Whether or not she's *good* at DPS is another discussion.
As for staff Evie, she *can* heal, but her primarily role is not healing. And in reality, if you were to throw an average DEF character at any boss and tell the Evie to try and outheal the boss' damage output against the character, it just wouldn't work. Only time it could arguably work is with a Fiona turtling, but in the case of an MMO, a lot of times a healer is going to need to heal everyone, which the staff Evie cannot since she's limited to 5 people with Corona, and can only get a Regen off once every like, 2 minutes due to SP constraints.
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TLCBonaparte wrote on 2011-12-08 02:53
It's weird because people would assume Karok is the tank but he's not... it's Fiona (mind blown)
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BizarreJuju wrote on 2011-12-08 03:04
Quote from TLCBonaparte;684948:
It's weird because people would assume Karok is the tank but he's not... it's Fiona (mind blown)
Well he does "tank" the damage then recover it back. A berserker class?
Karok - Mobility Tank (Absorb Shock)
Fiona - Stationary Tank (Heavy Guard)
Evie - Support Tank (RG + Amber)
Lann - Glass Tank (Successful Slipdash or get slammed)
But then again its based on your def + your knowledge and skill in evading bosses.
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RebeccaBlack wrote on 2011-12-08 03:19
Quote from foreignreign;684936:
Fiona is not a tank (cannot hold aggro/threat). She cannot heal. She is able to deal consistent damage and it is her main function to do so. Therefore, DPS class.
This is debatable. She
can tank and it's probably in her best interest to do so, putting DPS behind in favor of letting others do it. Just because she
can do DPS doesn't mean she should. I know it's kind of boring to sit spam and stay in heavy stander all day, but it allows everyone else to pretty much stand around and blast away, adding far more damage than she would have ever done by attacking.
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foreignreign wrote on 2011-12-08 03:52
Quote from RebeccaBlack;684966:
This is debatable. She can tank and it's probably in her best interest to do so, putting DPS behind in favor of letting others do it. Just because she can do DPS doesn't mean she should. I know it's kind of boring to sit spam and stay in heavy stander all day, but it allows everyone else to pretty much stand around and blast away, adding far more damage than she would have ever done by attacking.
The problem here is that Fiona cannot hold aggro. Therefore she cannot tank.
To be a tank in WoW terms means to be able to hold aggro. No character can do this. Fiona cannot do this. She is not a tank.
Just because she can nullify damage does not qualify her as a tank. If that were the case, staff Evie could be a tank. Sword Lann could be a tank.
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TLCBonaparte wrote on 2011-12-08 04:47
Quote from foreignreign;685013:
The problem here is that Fiona cannot hold aggro. Therefore she cannot tank.
To be a tank in WoW terms means to be able to hold aggro. No character can do this. Fiona cannot do this. She is not a tank.
Just because she can nullify damage does not qualify her as a tank. If that were the case, staff Evie could be a tank. Sword Lann could be a tank.
Why is wow our go to traditional class role template?