Amazon may become greenhouse gas emitter

• abc33kr wrote on 2012-01-25 09:41

  Quote from Chillax;748278:

  Like I said, Africa has much more rainforest than the Amazon, so if you want to save the rainforests, you should look there first. The Amazon is the poster child for rainforests because it's lush and green and thus easier to market to the public, although it still is very important. The solution to all this is having the world's nations pay subsidies to those that seek to deforest the Amazon, just like the US pays farmers not to sell crop surpluses. .-.

  
  
  :O like what i suggested?
  
  

  Quote from abc33kr;748079:

  • make major industrialist nations pay an amazon tax to brazil so brazil can use that money to invest on something other than argriculture
    

  
  

• Episkey wrote on 2012-01-25 10:06

  Quote from abc33kr;748280:

  
  From the other side,
  1. I've heard that ocean stores co2 too.
  2. ~75% of the earth's forests are already gone since industrial era, but still nothing happened.
  3. co2 makes up less than 1% of atmosphere, so how do they affect us?
  

  
  
  From a Chemistry perspective, This is what I can say about CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] ...
  I also can't answer number two and that's an interesting statement, some insight from others would be nice.
  
  Anyway. Oceans can "store" CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] but there are various issues with this.
  First, CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] is a gas and what really happens is that it dissolves in our oceans. When CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] is dissolved in water, it forms carbonic acid which decreases our oceans pH. The increased acidity is what destroys marine life shells and eggs because they are mainly composed of calcium carbonate/bicarbonate (a base). This phenomenon is called Ocean acidification and is exacerbated by our consumption of fossil fuels (generating more CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] in our atmosphere).
  
  However, as you are probably aware - the temperature of our Earth generally seems to be increasing on a global scale. Gases have decreased solubility when temperatures rise. That's why you put soda in the refrigerator, to keep it cool and from going "flat". If our oceans heat up, which they are, less CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] can be dissolved into ocean water - so it escapes.
  So the question becomes, how does CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] affect us?
  
  CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] is a Greenhouse gas and therefore traps more thermal energy within our Earth. You can think of it as a barrier that keeps the Earth warm. It's a necessary phenomenon, otherwise Earth would have a lot lower temperatures. The problem becomes that simply, there's an excess of CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] and other greenhouse gases now. And if there's more CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE], then the temperature of the Earth will rise - then oceans will get warmer. If oceans are warmer, less CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] is dissolved and some escapes ... I think you get the picture by now. Frankly, it's a never-ending cycle .
  
  In addition to increasing temperatures, CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] also is a factor in acid rain. So yeah, more acidic rain is not good for fish, water quality, infrastructure, etc.
  
  At higher concentrations CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] can become a health hazard, as well. It would require a high concentration (10%-20% of air) to become deadly, but people suffer symptoms from concentrations of a mere 1%.
  
  To summarize:
  
  1. Oceans dissolve CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] into the water
  2. CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] is a greenhouse gas and causes higher ocean temperature
  3. Higher Ocean temperature means less CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] is capable of dissolving
  4. CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] escapes from ocean
  5. Rinse and repeat.
  
  So yeah. More CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] ... No bueno :hot2:
• abc33kr wrote on 2012-01-25 10:16
  ;o good point from the other side.
  thanks for contributing to this thread episkey.
  
  hate it when people just regard stuff as common sense and not explain.
• Episkey wrote on 2012-01-25 10:23

  Quote from abc33kr;748326:

  ;o good point from the other side.
  thanks for contributing to this thread episkey.
  
  hate it when people just regard stuff as common sense and not explain.

  
  
  We all come from different education backgrounds, so I try to explain everything in great detail.
  Sometimes it's a bit ... too ... much though :p
  
  I really don't think this issue is two sided, to be honest. The Amazon rainforest (all trees, in general) needs to exist because plants are one of the easiest ways to get rid of CO[SIZE="1"]2[/SIZE] in our atmosphere. I mean easy by availability, resourcefulness is another story D:
  
  I guess the issue is how to deal with said problem, without causing irreversible damage to the surrounding ecosystem. It's difficult to come up with such an answer, if it was easy - We wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.
• Chillax wrote on 2012-01-25 10:42

  Quote from abc33kr;748280:

  From the other side,
  1. I've heard that ocean stores co2 too.
  2. ~75% of the earth's forests are already gone since industrial era, but still nothing happened.
  3. co2 makes up less than 1% of atmosphere, so how do they affect us?
  Those are what I read from articles others have posted. Now I want your side of the story to counter those arguments. Preferably, I want articles for each point so that it's not just made up bs.
  
  I'm not trying to antagonize you on this post, just want to know more about ur side of the argument. I've stopped antagonizing you ever since we threw out genocide out of this thread.

  
  
  1. The CO2 is stored in mostly phytoplankton and other marine organisms as well. The problem with depending on the ocean as a carbon sink is the high turnover rate of phytoplankton (short life and being eaten) and overfishing. Animals, like fish, are carbon sinks, and when they die, they usually fall to the bottom of the ocean or are eaten by other fish that in turn fall to the bottom of the ocean and enrich underwater communities, preventing carbon from going back to the surface. The problem is, assuming the whale is eaten, pooped out, and treated by wastewater treatment plants, when the treated sewage is dumped into the ocean, it still contains nutrients that usually lead to phytoplankton blooms and consequently, oxygen dead zones. That kills marine life in those dead zones, which means less carbon sinks.
  
  2. I wouldn't say nothing happened, it's just that we don't fully understand the consequences. I don't know too much about this subject, so I'm not going to comment on it.
  
  3. Adding on to what Episkey wrote about how CO2 and SO3 form acid when they react with water, most water goes to the ocean from runoff , but not all of the water that evaporates from lakes and ponds is replaced. With constant evaporation, the concentration of carbonic acid and sulfuric acid increases in these lakes and ponds, and they become incredibly acidic and unable to support life.
  
  

  Quote from abc33kr;748284:

  :O like what i suggested?

  
  
  Perhaps, but I wouldn't call it a tax.
• Taycat wrote on 2012-01-25 19:20
  I thought this thread was talking about the website at first...