Oklahoma Senate Passes Personhood Act, Bans All Abortion and Contraception

• Claudia wrote on 2012-02-22 03:45
  So we've back to the pro-life vs. pro-choice argument, huh?
  
  Awesome. >_>
• Kueh wrote on 2012-02-22 03:50

  Quote from Claudia;781885:

  So we've back to the pro-life vs. pro-choice argument, huh?
  
  Awesome. >_>

  
  
  I don't see why the fact that everyone else has said their piece about it has anything to do with my own opinions, or whether or not I should say them.
• Kollin wrote on 2012-02-22 03:51

  Quote from Kueh;781867:

  Like I said, I disagree with the bill, but your definition of what is a human is quite poor. You apparently need fully functional organs and a respiratory system to be considered human? Then people with organ damage, or diseases that affect the organs including the respiratory system are not human.
  
  The shape and form of the body should be irrelevant when considering that status of human. Short people are just as human as tall people, mentally impaired people are just as human as exceptionally bright people. People born missing organs or limbs are not only part human because they were born with part of what you believe is the ideal human body.

  
  
  Not once did I say they had to be fully functional, I stated that they had to have formed. Regarding birth defects (missing limbs/organs/etc.), once everything but the affected (limb/organ/etc.) has formed and the babe is soon to prepare for birth, I consider it a human being. I do not consider a formless mass of cells incapable of any sort of coherent thought (disregarding mental retardation) or function necessary to survive a human being.
• TheKartheus wrote on 2012-02-22 06:16
  Arguing this is pointless. All the facts have been given, and most are true. But the fact remains that the point you are arguing is purely of opinion. Arguing this is like arguing what the best color is. The only difference in being pro-abortion or anti-abortion is when we believe life begins. Personally, I think abortion is morally wrong. But we all have our preconceived ideas about it. No matter how many facts I say, or what arguments you make, we aren't going to change our minds.
  
  Since both sides believe they are the morally superior and correct, however, they will continue to argue this forever, and ignorantly look down on everyone who doesn't believe the same way they do.
  
  
  
  On a side note: What is this talk about some people being pro-life? It seems like a bad way to term it, seeing as if your not pro-life that would make you...pro-death?
• Kueh wrote on 2012-02-22 06:23

  Quote from Kollin;781892:

  Not once did I say they had to be fully functional, I stated that they had to have formed. Regarding birth defects (missing limbs/organs/etc.), once everything but the affected (limb/organ/etc.) has formed and the babe is soon to prepare for birth, I consider it a human being. I do not consider a formless mass of cells incapable of any sort of coherent thought (disregarding mental retardation) or function necessary to survive a human being.

  
  
  Many people are born without the organs ever forming. Most times, they die, but sometimes there is enough warning for doctors to intervene and administer various remedies. What is the difference between these people and healthy people? I'll give you a hint that the difference is very small (to the point of non-existence.)
  
  For that matter, when is it that it stops being a formless (and I use that word loosely, because even in the stages of the zygote, the cells have form) mass of cells and becomes a human? When the first liver cell develops? When the first six thousand liver cells develop? When the liver starts working? Almost all the organs can be fully functional by 5 weeks after conception, with full organ systems working at around 7 weeks.
  
  Ironically, even by your standards, abortion is still killing a fully formed human. Since having an abortion before 7 weeks is considered high risk, the majority of abortions take place after the fetus has the noticeable features of a human (those being organs, apparently.)
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-02-22 06:39

  Quote from TheKartheus;782046:

  But the fact remains that the point you are arguing is purely of opinion. Arguing this is like arguing what the best color is. The only difference in being pro-abortion or anti-abortion is when we believe life begins.
  
  Since both sides believe they are the morally superior and correct, however, they will continue to argue this forever, and ignorantly look down on everyone who doesn't believe the same way they do.

  
  This is basically what I've been trying to say, and why I dropped out of the thread for a bit.
  
  By the way, it's a fact that red is the best color.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2012-02-22 07:03
  *reads TA's post*
  
  What exactly did these people say dear lord O.o
  
  Better that I don't know >.>
  
  Anyways, even though I'm pro life, I think this goes a bit too far. I personally feel contraception should be used and employed to prevent pregnecies in the first place. I mean if you're horny and want to have sex, contraception is a much. Trying to fight human sex drives is pointless.
  
  Also, I think anything after the 2nd trimester should only be if the woman's life is in danger. You have plenty of time to choose during the 1st trimester wither you want an abortion or not.
  
  The pro choice peeps here will probably rip me a new one for this but I've conceded a lot from my original opinions on the matter. Don't expect me to budge another inch.
• Chiyuri wrote on 2012-02-22 08:00

  Quote from Kueh;781855:

  I don't support the way this bill deals with contraception and natural miscarriages, but I am against abortion.
  
  Also, some of the posts here make is sound like life doesn't begin with conception, which it does.
  
  Once the sperm and egg cells combine, the resulting zygote is a complete and individual human, as far as biological systems are concerned.

  
  
  If "Life" is importent.. why are animals been grown only to be murdered and ate by people?
  The second the sperm and the egg colide, can you take it out of the female host and throw it in society for it to survive on it's own?
  
  
  Personaly, I'm Pro-Soul. If it doesn't have a soul, it doesn't have rights. So that include unborn humans and human baby till the age of 1.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2012-02-22 08:04

  Quote from Chiyuri;782224:

  If "Life" is importent.. why are animals been grown only to be murdered and ate by people?
  The second the sperm and the egg colide, can you take it out of the female host and throw it in society for it to survive on it's own?
  
  
  Personaly, I'm Pro-Soul. If it doesn't have a soul, it doesn't have rights. So that include unborn humans and human baby till the age of 1.

  
  
  Are you a soul expert? I highly doubt it. I feel that souls are gained at the moment of consciousness it not before then.
  
  This is going beyond the topic at hand though so I won't be counter arguing this. Just saying.
• Claudia wrote on 2012-02-22 08:36

  Quote from Kingofrunes;782127:

  *reads TA's post*
  
  What exactly did these people say dear lord O.o
  

  
  
  Unfortunately it doesn't take much imagination to guess what was said/who said it. Honestly, surprised they're not banned atm but whatever.
  
  

  Also, I think anything after the 2nd trimester should only be if the woman's life is in danger. You have plenty of time to choose during the 1st trimester wither you want an abortion or not.

  
  
  I think any reasonable person would agree. (I agree with this as well.)
  
  Now, I hate to sound like a moderator, but i'm kinda tired of people ripping each other because they're pro-life/pro-choice. The thread is about this bill, which essentially makes getting an abortion illegal, as well as potentially making birth control illegal. And Virginia is not the only state considering this.
  
  Can we talk about that instead?
• Hazeri wrote on 2012-02-22 08:39

  Quote from TheKartheus;782046:

  Arguing this is pointless. All the facts have been given, and most are true. But the fact remains that the point you are arguing is purely of opinion. Arguing this is like arguing what the best color is. The only difference in being pro-abortion or anti-abortion is when we believe life begins. Personally, I think abortion is morally wrong. But we all have our preconceived ideas about it. No matter how many facts I say, or what arguments you make, we aren't going to change our minds.
  
  Since both sides believe they are the morally superior and correct, however, they will continue to argue this forever, and ignorantly look down on everyone who doesn't believe the same way they do.
  
  
  
  On a side note: What is this talk about some people being pro-life? It seems like a bad way to term it, seeing as if your not pro-life that would make you...pro-death?

  
  
  Well,[SIZE="7"] IN MY OPINION[/SIZE] they're technically supporting the bloody murder of a human being, so yeah, you could call them pro-death as well.
• Kollin wrote on 2012-02-22 08:43

  Quote from Hazeri;782314:

  Well, they're technically supporting the bloody murder of a human being, so yeah, you could call them pro-death as well.

  
  
  That is your opinion.
• Hazeri wrote on 2012-02-22 08:49

  Quote from Kollin;782326:

  That is your opinion.

  
  
  Your point being...?
• Kollin wrote on 2012-02-22 08:51

  Quote from Hazeri;782342:

  Your point being...?

  
  
  It is invalid unless you have something to support your side of the argument, which us "pro-deathers" have done. You have nothing to backup your side of the argument.
• Hazeri wrote on 2012-02-22 08:56

  Quote from Kollin;782348:

  It is invalid unless you have something to support your side of the argument, which us "pro-deathers" have done. You have nothing to backup your side of the argument.

  
  
  Never did once said my statement was a fact, if you're going to be such an ass about it I'll go an add "IN MY OPINION" all bolded and maximum size to my original post for your convenience.
  
  [SIZE="7"]IN MY OPINION[/SIZE] Anyone who supports bloody murder of a human being can be also called Pro-death. Happy now?