New weapon, skills, items, and tweaks you'd like to see!~

• Zeo wrote on 2015-08-08 11:38

  Quote from Kaeporo;1283814:

  It doesn't sound like he's really "forcing" the mini-game on bard skills. Playing a music buff skill would activate the mini-game which I imagine you would be able to cancel immediately. Playing the mini-game instead of cancelling would improve music buff effect and music buff duration.
  
  Sounds pretty fair and trust me - it wouldn't kill music buff skills. Nobody is going to give up Battlefield Overture, especially in a party. If anything, diva and bard did a pretty good job of that; ensuring nobody would hold an instrument during battle longer than three seconds.

  
  
  Oh, is that the case? That seem bit more reasonable to me now. Maybe we should have the option to disable the minigame if we don't want to do it as well.
• Kapra wrote on 2015-08-08 20:15

  Quote from Kaeporo;1283814:

  It doesn't sound like he's really "forcing" the mini-game on bard skills. Playing a music buff skill would activate the mini-game which I imagine you would be able to cancel immediately. Playing the mini-game instead of cancelling would improve music buff effect and music buff duration.
  
  Sounds pretty fair and trust me - it wouldn't kill music buff skills. Nobody is going to give up Battlefield Overture, especially in a party. If anything, diva and bard did a pretty good job of that; ensuring nobody would hold an instrument during battle longer than three seconds.

  
  I might of misunderstood but from what I understand, doing bad at the minigame yields a -1 penalty, so it is possible to reach 0 MBE if you get all 15 notes wrong (assuming you don't have any other sources of MBE on).
• Tropa wrote on 2015-08-09 02:04

  Quote from Kaeporo;1283814:

  It doesn't sound like he's really "forcing" the mini-game on bard skills. Playing a music buff skill would activate the mini-game which I imagine you would be able to cancel immediately. Playing the mini-game instead of cancelling would improve music buff effect and music buff duration.

  
  
  Pretty much this, the mini-game is optional and will grant extra MBE and duration(if completed).
  
  

  Quote from Kapra;1283825:

  I might of misunderstood but from what I understand, doing bad at the minigame yields a -1 penalty, so it is possible to reach 0 MBE if you get all 15 notes wrong (assuming you don't have any other sources of MBE on).

  
  
  The penalty only effects the additional MBE from the mini-game itself, enchants, titles and such are not effected.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-08-09 02:11

  Quote from Zeo;1283815:

  Oh, is that the case? That seem bit more reasonable to me now. Maybe we should have the option to disable the minigame if we don't want to do it as well.

  
  
  You wouldn't need to disable the minigame.
  
  1. Equip instrument
  2. Select Battlefield Overture
  3. Minigame activates
  4a. Press WASD with proper timing to improve music buff effect, receive 60 second duration bonus upon clear
  4b. Press X to cancel the minigame and end the skill.
  
  Literally nothing would change for people who don't want to play the minigame.
  
  That said, it would be a good move to heavily increase the cooldowns of music buff skills.
• Twin wrote on 2015-08-09 05:47

  Quote from Tropa;1283840:

  Pretty much this, the mini-game is optional and will grant extra MBE and duration(if completed).
  
  
  
  The penalty only effects the additional MBE from the mini-game itself, enchants, titles and such are not effected.

  
  
  Was this your

  [Image: http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/images/d/df/Inspiration.png]

  for that idea?
  
  [video=youtube;j5oQBsBLn8s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5oQBsBLn8s[/video]
• Zeo wrote on 2015-08-10 13:13

  Quote from Kaeporo;1283841:

  You wouldn't need to disable the minigame.
  
  1. Equip instrument
  2. Select Battlefield Overture
  3. Minigame activates
  4a. Press WASD with proper timing to improve music buff effect, receive 60 second duration bonus upon clear
  4b. Press X to cancel the minigame and end the skill.
  
  Literally nothing would change for people who don't want to play the minigame.
  
  That said, it would be a good move to heavily increase the cooldowns of music buff skills.

  
  
  Well, what if I don't want to see the mini game pop-up for every time I use the skill? I support having the option to disable the mini game as well.
  
  Some of us also stated a while ago that forcing a lengthy cool down on bard skills are a terrible idea and the cool down any Bard skills (except for Encore and Fantastic Chorus) should be no longer than 20 seconds.
• Tropa wrote on 2015-08-10 18:41

  Quote from Zeo;1283912:

  Some of us also stated a while ago that forcing a lengthy cool down on bard skills are a terrible idea and the cool down any Bard skills (except for Encore and Fantastic Chorus) should be no longer than 20 seconds.

  
  
  How come? besides death and perhaps a troll party memeber, I really dont see a problem with buff skills having a cooldown of 30~60 seconds.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-08-11 02:48

  Quote from Zeo;1283912:

  Well, what if I don't want to see the mini game pop-up for every time I use the skill? I support having the option to disable the mini game as well.
  
  Some of us also stated a while ago that forcing a lengthy cool down on bard skills are a terrible idea and the cool down any Bard skills (except for Encore and Fantastic Chorus) should be no longer than 20 seconds.

  
  
  I have a hard time believing that "some of you" have any idea what you're talking about.
  
  You, specifically, have a vastly different approach to game balance and would likely be the first person to recommend another Final Hit buff on top of the one we already have because "Mabinogi is too hard for newbies" or some comparable argument.
  
  Anyway, could you at least provide us with the argument against "meaningful" cooldowns?
• Zeo wrote on 2015-08-11 11:34

  Quote from Kaeporo;1283944:

  I have a hard time believing that "some of you" have any idea what you're talking about.
  
  You, specifically, have a vastly different approach to game balance and would likely be the first person to recommend another Final Hit buff on top of the one we already have because "Mabinogi is too hard for newbies" or some comparable argument.
  
  Anyway, could you at least provide us with the argument against "meaningful" cooldowns?

  
  
  You are a kind of person that have a very easy time to throw in an excuse saying I have 'no idea' just because you disagreed with my perspective which IS NOT the way to go with the discussion. I could do the same with you but I don't, why? I prefer to have the civil discussion unlike some of you who tried to throw all of my opinions and perspectives into the trash and I DO NOT APPRECIATE THAT... I am sorry for coming off very aggressive but that's kinda rude for you to say I have no idea and put my opinions and perspectives into the trash just because you think your perspectives are better than mine.
  
  The reason I am against longer cooldown? It'll make the whole skillset not as usable as they are now thus killing what made Mabinogi unique and even the Bard special as well. The only thing that Bard need some tweaking would be the micless singing and Encore. I support Tropa's new changes in term of buff for the Bard skills but I strongly disagree with forcing the absurdly long cooldown for Bard skills, it shouldn't have no more than 20 seconds long for cooldown. The reason bard skills are fine the way they are because they actually help a bit with very challenging contents as of recent.
  
  I understand that you guys want a challenging content but the director have been putting them out for a while now and you guys should be grateful for that. It does get really tiresome having to listen to you guys whine and moan about how easy Mabinogi is for last few years now.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-08-11 13:03

  Quote from Zeo;1283956:

  You are a kind of person that have a very easy time to throw in an excuse saying I have 'no idea' just because you disagreed with my perspective which IS NOT the way to go with the discussion. I could do the same with you but I don't, why? I prefer to have the civil discussion unlike some of you who tried to throw all of my opinions and perspectives into the trash and I DO NOT APPRECIATE THAT... I am sorry for coming off very aggressive but that's kinda rude for you to say I have no idea and put my opinions and perspectives into the trash just because you think your perspectives are better than mine.
  
  The reason I am against longer cooldown? It'll make the whole skillset not as usable as they are now thus killing what made Mabinogi unique and even the Bard special as well. The only thing that Bard need some tweaking would be the micless singing and Encore. I support Tropa's new changes in term of buff for the Bard skills but I strongly disagree with forcing the absurdly long cooldown for Bard skills, it shouldn't have no more than 20 seconds long for cooldown. The reason bard skills are fine the way they are because they actually help a bit with very challenging contents as of recent.
  
  I understand that you guys want a challenging content but the director have been putting them out for a while now and you guys should be grateful for that. It does get really tiresome having to listen to you guys whine and moan about how easy Mabinogi is for last few years now.

  
  
  Please explain how increased cooldown periods for specific and highly centralizing skills would "make the whole skillset not as usable as they are now". To that end, explain how making something "less usable" would kill "what made Mabinogi unique".
  
  I want to see things from your perspective but you need to stop asking us to consider a meritless argument that's grounded to the foundation of an emotional appeal. Provide us with some semblance of an accurate metric tied to game mechanics instead of falling back on the community blame game.
  
  tropacat's mini-game would encourage the use of music as something beyond a permanent passive bonus; your immediate reaction was the outright rejection of any sort of change to that end. Increasing the cooldown of Battlefield Overture would incentivize use of other Music Buff Skills (which, combined, see less use comparatively - it's effectively a one-skill talent [two if you factor in Fantastic Chorus]), the ranking of Encore (preferably alongside a buff of some sort), and general investment in other music related areas of character development (use of instruments/enchantments/etc).
  
  Music, at present, serves as little more than a single-long "blah" that confers a bonus to party effectiveness more significant than all life-related skills combined. Does that constitute your idea of a good music system?
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2015-08-11 14:49

  Quote from Kaeporo;1283841:

  You wouldn't need to disable the minigame.
  
  1. Equip instrument
  2. Select Battlefield Overture
  3. Minigame activates
  4a. Press WASD with proper timing to improve music buff effect, receive 60 second duration bonus upon clear
  4b. Press X to cancel the minigame and end the skill.
  
  Literally nothing would change for people who don't want to play the minigame.
  
  That said, it would be a good move to heavily increase the cooldowns of music buff skills.

  
  
  What about music skills that have a long startup time before the effect actually happens such as Harvest Song?
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-08-11 15:51

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1283959:

  What about music skills that have a long startup time before the effect actually happens such as Harvest Song?

  
  
  Shorten them.
  
  There's no reason why Harvest Song should have a five second activation period. Combat presents a sort of opportunity cost that's not present when gathering. Ultimately, the usefulness of Harvest Song declines as the player ranks gathering skills to the point where its impact is nil. The same declination never happens with a skill like Battlefield Overture.
  
  Change is never inherently a bad thing but it's best issued in baby steps. Sometimes that's not possible but when you're talking about game balance, it's the ideal solution. DevCat tends to fuck half the player base with each update through their abhorrent design philosophy and lack of vision.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2015-08-11 16:00

  Quote from Kaeporo;1283961:

  Ultimately, the usefulness of Harvest Song declines as the player ranks gathering skills to the point where its impact is nil.

  
  
  Most of what you said makes sense except this here. Is a 5 - 10% increase in success rate something to scoff up for making items that never cap to 100%? Such as is the case for all high ranked production skills.
  
  Of course that's just me nitpicking at this point.
  
  You're last point awakened a mini rant about devcat and how crappy they are compared to other game companies so I'm going off on a massive tangent here.
  
  Devcat really is terrible when it comes to designing good high quality and long lasting updates to Mabinogi. Companies like Areanet and Jagex do a far better job maintaining good game balance.
  
  The reason why they so well at that? They actively engage the players in update discussions! Something devcat fails to do over and over and over again! It's mind boggling. They have this test server for player feedback, fucking use it!
  
  Areanet for example does Beta Weekends when they are working on a big update and actively get player feedback from these events to improve upon what they designed. Jagex uses forums and player polls for feedback to get their information on how they can improve updates or what changes players might like.
  
  All it really takes is to actively talk to the players. It's becoming more and more common place these days and if devcat continues to do what they do, they're going to get left behind in the dust eventually.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-08-11 19:16

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1283962:

  Devcat really is terrible when it comes to designing good high quality and long lasting updates to Mabinogi. Companies like Areanet and Jagex do a far better job maintaining good game balance.

  
  
  The irony of how Devcat actually knows what they're doing in Vindictus... most of the time.
• Kapra wrote on 2015-08-11 19:18
  If you're going to add the music minigame to music buff skills, I'd like to see a similar version for playing instrument when used with a magical music scroll.
  
  If music had yet to come out and we could change things in a test server before it does, I would've made the MBE from Playing Instrument only apply after a rhythm game, reduced the effects of existing buff skills and increase the influence of MBE, and after you finish the rhythm game, you will continuously play the song (even if there's no music) until you run out of stamina. And given the ability to walk around, in addition to the option to turn off the minigame.
  
  I'd also add the rhythm game as a toggleable feature for playing instrument that lets you manually have great/good/etc successes/failures depending on the player's skills rather than chance.
  
  I'd have music buffs cancel if you stop playing the instrument, unless you use some skill similar to phantasmal chorus that lets it play on its own after you stop for a limited duration, which lets you use another buff skill without overriding the chorus (and without overriding other party members, different buff types stacking but not more of the same buff type stacking).
  
  I would also add similar skills for combating monsters, that'd require you to not stop playing music. When I first heard of Dischord/Melody Strike, I kind of imagined a skill that'd lock you in place unable to move, require you to select a target and play a rhythm game similar to the Fashion Contest, which would do a degree of Damage over Time depending on how successful you are.