Oklahoma Supreme Court rejects embryo 'personhood' measure

• Sinsie wrote on 2012-05-10 00:28
  I'm kind of impressed this happens. Haven't been giving our country enough credit when it comes to progression.
  
  Rape victims are always the ones that get the short end of the stick. There really should be more emphasis put on helping them out. I try not to worry about it too much though. The more time passes on, the less hold ideas of old will have on the newer generations of people. And science/truth keeps on spreading thanks to society's progression and how freely information is able to pass in our world now.
  
  It's really not a matter of "what side will win", but rather, "when will this side finally fade away for good?"
• Xxazurekitex wrote on 2012-05-10 00:29

  Quote from TA;859786:

  It would be so emotionally scarring having that filth growing inside of you for 9 months, even if you did give it away... I would want it dead right then and there. I would want every bit of that person dead, and to have a part of them growing inside of me... that would be added insult to injury.
  
  The emotional distress from that is catastrophic. You don't ask a rape victim to bring their attacker's seed into the world. That's just beyond cruel.

  
  :srsly?:
  I actually think that's a much better explanation then what I had despite both of us thinking almost the same thing. :ghost: being a ghost doesn't help.
  
  I'm loosing my mind with multi-tasking. :fail:
  
  (EDIT: Took to long in posting didn't want mixups)
• Drizzit wrote on 2012-05-10 03:22

  Quote from TA;859786:

  It would be so emotionally scarring having that filth growing inside of you for 9 months, even if you did give it away... I would want it dead right then and there. I would want every bit of that person dead, and to have a part of them growing inside of me... that would be added insult to injury.
  
  The emotional distress from that is catastrophic. You don't ask a rape victim to bring their attacker's seed into the world. That's just beyond cruel.

  
  89% of women who had abortions because of rape reported feeling guilty and emotionally traumatized because of the abortion (admittedly in a survey conducted by a pro-life organization). Creating a second victim never undoes the damage to the first.
• Xxazurekitex wrote on 2012-05-10 03:27

  Quote from Drizzit;859923:

  89% of women who had abortions because of rape reported feeling guilty and emotionally traumatized because of the abortion.

  
  
  Okay and? That's normal. It doesn't change the fact the rapist's kid won't get to grow up. A child made from an evil act by an evil person. If they get the abortion, good for them it doesn't let the rapist win anymore then he has.
  
  I would also like the source of your statistics.
• Drizzit wrote on 2012-05-10 03:34
  Well, as I stated, it was a survey conducted by a pro-life group, bbut obviously you wouldn't expect a pro-abortion group to conduct such a study. I could probably find it online if I look. I'll post it if I do.
  Edit: Here and here
  But your logic is flawed. It's not "letting the rapist win" to allow his child to come into the world, and just because the child was concieved by an evil act does act make the child evil, No matter how it was conceived, the baby is completely innocent. In the case of rape, the victim is seeking revenge on her rapist which often times is done vicariously through an abortion. The unborn child is not able to give his or her consent and we do not have the right to choose his or her fate. It is never morally acceptable to inflict harm on an innocent person in an attempt to alleviate one's own suffering. We should not minimize our sympathy for rape victims; however, we also should not let rape justify the brutality of killing a life that is completely innocent of crime.
• Xxazurekitex wrote on 2012-05-10 03:42

  Quote from Drizzit;859930:

  
  
  But your logic is flawed. It's not "letting the rapist win" to allow his child to come into the world, and just because the child was concieved by an evil act does act make the child evil, No matter how it was conceived, the baby is completely innocent.

  In a way it is...at least the way I see it.
  
  Anyway I think that if you're raped and get pregnant as a result morals be damned, it should be aborted.
  
  In a way, the baby of the rapist is like having half that person grow and fester inside your body. A ghastly thought.
• User495 wrote on 2012-05-10 03:50
  it has been proven that genetics do affect your personality
  
  however that does not mean it is the only thing to
  
  which is why either way you are allowing that specific gene to continue to exist
  
  [SIZE="1"]also because I have been seperated from my father for 12 years, and I practically know nothing about him till I moved back here, and my relatives tell me about how my personality is very much like his even though we haven't had any contact for 12 years[/SIZE]
• Xxazurekitex wrote on 2012-05-10 03:55

  Quote from Seviraph;859945:

  it has been proven that genes do affect your personality
  
  however that does not mean it is the only thing to
  
  which is why either way you are allowing that specific gene to continue to exist
  
  [SIZE="1"]also because I have been seperated from my father for 12 years, and I practically know nothing about him till I moved back here, and my relatives tell me about how my personality is very much like his even though we haven't had any contact for 12 years[/SIZE]

  
  I wanted to bring that up but I wasn't 100% sure about that, especially since it's late xD;
  Thanks for confirming my thought...
• User495 wrote on 2012-05-10 04:01

  Quote from Xxazurekitex;859951:

  I wanted to bring that up but I wasn't 100% sure about that, especially since it's late xD;
  Thanks for confirming my thought...

  
  
  yeah I looked it up once, cause of the situation that I mentioned
  
  but do correct me if I am wrong, cause I am no scientist
• Episkey wrote on 2012-05-10 04:13
  I can honestly tell you that that's not how it works.
  
  When it comes to genetic traits, it's not that you have 50% from Mom and 50% from Dad.
  
  What you get from Mom and Dad are alleles. Those alleles come together to form a trait - that trait can be recessive or dominant. Since a "rapist gene" (which is quite silly and probably does not exist) would be a phenotype - it follows the same Punnet square pattern.
  
  Assuming that it's something simple - like in the case of flower color. (Which it isn't!)
  
  

  [Image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Punnett_square_mendel_flowers.svg]

  
  
  It would also make sense for a "rapist gene" to be recessive - if it were dominant, then most members of the population would have said rapist gene.
  
  Meaning, as long as the mother didn't have a recessive rapist allele ... it would be impossible for the child to become like his rapist father (in this example).
  
  
  Now, this would "rapist gene" is theoretical. But it shows you that having a child that came from a rapist, isn't half of the rapist.
  Neither does that child necessarily inherit the negative attributes from his father. To say that the child is tainted because of the rapist is silly. It's just like any other child - deserving of a chance to live.
• User495 wrote on 2012-05-10 04:16

  Quote from Episkey;859974:

  I can honestly tell you that that's not how it works.
  
  When it comes to genetic traits, it's not that you have 50% from Mom and 50% from Dad.
  
  What you get from Mom and Dad are alleles. Those alleles come together to form a trait - that trait can be recessive or dominant. Since a "rapist gene" (which is quite silly and probably does not exist) would be a phenotype - it follows the same Punnet square pattern.
  
  Assuming that it's something simple - like in the case of flower color. (Which it isn't!)
  
  

  [Image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Punnett_square_mendel_flowers.svg]

  
  
  It would also make sense for a "rapist gene" to be recessive - if it were dominant, then most members of the population would have said rapist gene.
  
  Meaning, as long as the mother didn't have a recessive rapist allele ... it would be impossible for the child to become like his rapist father (in this example).
  
  
  Now, this would "rapist gene" is theoretical. But it shows you that having a child that came from a rapist, isn't half of the rapist.
  Neither does that child necessarily inherit the negative attributes from his father. To say that the child is tainted because of the rapist is silly. It's just like any other child - deserving of a chance to live.

  
  
  
  excuse me ,if I may professor
  
  

  Quote from Seviraph;859945:

  it has been proven that genetics do affect your personality
  
  [SIZE="7"]however that does not mean it is the only thing to[/SIZE]
  
  which is why either way you are allowing that specific gene to continue to exist
  

• Episkey wrote on 2012-05-10 04:20

  Quote from Seviraph;859976:

  excuse me ,if I may professor

  
  
  But of course, oh wise student. Perhaps I should re-direct you here?
  
  

  l
  v

  
  
  

  Quote from Episkey;859974:

  
  Assuming that it's something simple - like in the case of flower color. (Which it isn't!)

  
  
  
  I just wanted to say all of that - since your view may not be everyone else's.
  It was just something general, not specifically targeted at to you :L
• Xxazurekitex wrote on 2012-05-10 04:20

  Quote from Seviraph;859960:

  yeah I looked it up once, cause of the situation that I mentioned
  
  but do correct me if I am wrong, cause I am no scientist

  
  
  Neither am I but I do believe you're spot on.
  Also if I may ask...and I've been wondering for a while now.
  
  Whats the picture of your avatar of?
• User495 wrote on 2012-05-10 04:34

  Quote from Episkey;859979:

  But of course, oh wise student. Perhaps I should re-direct you here?
  
  

  l
  v

  
  
  
  
  
  I just wanted to say all of that - since your view may not be everyone else's.
  It was just something general, not specifically targeted at to you :L

  
  
  there is a time and place for everything
  
  I think is how that saying goes?
  as well as it could be taken as an insult to our intelligence if you believe the ones debating about a topic such as this, did not go through biology before (cause they'd probably be too young to be qualified to have an opinion on this)
  
  

  Quote from Xxazurekitex;859980:

  Neither am I but I do believe you're spot on.
  Also if I may ask...and I've been wondering for a while now.
  
  Whats the picture of your avatar of?

  
  
  and my avatar is a of a drawing I drew awhile back of Tenebrae (well a humanoid form of him) from Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
  the rest of the drawing isn't quite as impressive so I cut it out as an avatar (I've gotten better since then though, still learning/getting the hang of Paint Tool SAI)
• Xxazurekitex wrote on 2012-05-10 04:37

  Quote from Seviraph;859992:

  
  
  
  
  and my avatar is a of a drawing I drew awhile back of Tenebrae (well a humanoid form of him) from Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
  the rest of the drawing isn't quite as impressive so I cut it out as an avatar (I've gotten better since then though, still learning/getting the hang of Paint Tool SAI)

  
  That's actually really cool. I draw myself but I'm no where near talented enough to post it online.
  I'd be interested in seeing the whole picture tho. If you don't mind~