Simple Question

• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2012-05-05 17:58
  If you really believe in pro-choice, then why don't you keep your pants up and be a responsible human being?
  
  This is not a discussion about women who get pregnant because of rape. This is simply asking for your opinion on dumb teenagers who think they're too cool for abstinence and start fornicating before they are ready to have a child. Do you think that it's justifiable for them to get an abortion? Does the woman have a right to complain about being pregnant when it was her fault that she got pregnant in the first place?
• Cynic wrote on 2012-05-05 18:09
  I'm pretty sure I as-well as most pro-choicers would love to exclude dumb whores from getting abortions.
  
  But since most people claim that it's either ALL abortions allowed or NO abortions allowed, we're forced to choose "all" instead of "most".
  
  As much as I hate dumb whores, I'd rather have all women able to get abortions so that women who are raped or too sick to carry the child get the chance instead of all women being forced to carry the child regardless of how terrible their situation is.
• Osayidan wrote on 2012-05-05 18:58
  Have to differentiate between dumbasses and accidents.
  Contraceptives are not a 100% thing. Condoms break, pills don't work right or other similar situations. It can happen to anyone, responsible or not.
  As much as I'd like to say young irresponsible whores shouldn't be allowed an abortion so they learn a lesson, that's like saying someone who didn't wear their seat belt isn't allowed medical treatment so that next time they know better.
• Krissyasaur wrote on 2012-05-05 19:09
  [SIZE="1"]i think even the dumb ones who don't care should have a choice to do so or not.
  what if they weren't allowed, and had that kid? that kid would either be neglected to the point of death possibly, get itself hurt, taken away, or burdened on the parents.[/SIZE]
• Sumpfkraut wrote on 2012-05-05 19:32
  I'm not exactly sure what the question is, since the OP is ignored, but from what I gather it seems to be:
  "Should dumb people not be granted the right to abort as a sort of punishment/because it doesn't deter them from doing it over and over again, which costs".
  
  The answer is that they should be granted the right, for two reasons of the top of my head, though there are likely more.
  
  The first is that you would put the future de facto child's welfare at significant risk by submitting him to a birth unto people who are just plain dumb -this might be a scenario that would work out in a society that isn't so heavily based on the concept of a nuclear family as e.g. America, but evidently America and most other more advanced countries do not have such a society, sadly-, the second is that in a modern, liberal, humanist society people are not punished as severely as this for simply being dumb hicks, or at the very least shouldn't be even if the more backwards/sociopathic elements of society would wish they were.
  

  Quote from Cynic;856470:

  I'm pretty sure I as-well as most pro-choicers would love to exclude dumb whores from getting abortions.

  
  I think most is an exaggeration.
• paladin wrote on 2012-05-05 21:30
  Spartaa
  I am surpised you can not understand lol
  The world is full of people who do not care
  The world majority is of the lazy,uncaring and slightly dumb masses then the caring intelligent minority
• Cynic wrote on 2012-05-05 21:30

  Quote from Sumpfkraut;856520:

  I'm not exactly sure what the question is, since the OP is ignored, but from what I gather it seems to be:
  "Should dumb people not be granted the right to abort as a sort of punishment/because it doesn't deter them from doing it over and over again, which costs".
  
  The answer is that they should be granted the right, for two reasons of the top of my head, though there are likely more.
  
  The first is that you would put the future de facto child's welfare at significant risk by submitting him to a birth unto people who are just plain dumb -this might be a scenario that would work out in a society that isn't so heavily based on the concept of a nuclear family as e.g. America, but evidently America and most other more advanced countries do not have such a society, sadly-, the second is that in a modern, liberal, humanist society people are not punished as severely as this for simply being dumb hicks, or at the very least shouldn't be even if the more backwards/sociopathic elements of society would wish they were.
  
  I think most is an exaggeration.

  
  
  Well, I should like to hope it's most. There are probably a lot of people who don't really care (can't say I blame 'um), but I would hope and assume that at-least half pro-choicers are what they are for a good reason.
  
  A pity that the whole abortion issue tends to be really extreme. I don't think I've ever met another person who didn't think abortion is an "either everyone or none at all" issue. It's retarded.
• paladin wrote on 2012-05-05 21:32

  Quote from Cynic;856585:

  Well, I should like to hope it's most. There are probably a lot of people who don't really care (can't say I blame 'um), but I would hope and assume that at-least half pro-choicers are what they are for a good reason.
  
  A pity that the whole abortion issue tends to be really extreme. I don't think I've ever met another person who didn't think abortion is an "either everyone or none at all" issue. It's retarded.

  
  
  Generally
  The middle ground makes the most sense but is also the least supported
  Many middle grounds get crushed by both extremes sadly
• Sumpfkraut wrote on 2012-05-05 21:46

  Quote from Cynic;856585:

  I would hope and assume that at-least half pro-choicers are what they are for a good reason.

  
  What would that good reason be exactly?
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2012-05-05 21:53

  Quote from Osayidan;856499:

  
  As much as I'd like to say young irresponsible whores shouldn't be allowed an abortion so they learn a lesson, that's like saying someone who didn't wear their seat belt isn't allowed medical treatment so that next time they know better.

  
  
  That's a matter of whether or not you believe that the unborn child is a human being. Getting an abortion and getting medical treatment for a car crash are totally different things as one involves a loss of life whereas the other is a matter of saving a life.
• Ithiliel wrote on 2012-05-05 22:03

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;856459:

  Does the woman have a right to complain about being pregnant when it was her fault that she got pregnant in the first place?

  
  
  Did you just really place all the blame on a woman? Wooooooooow. It takes two to have sex, you know. Both the MAN and the WOMAN are to blame when it comes to pregnancy happening, not just the woman. The fact that you even pushed the blame solely on the woman makes me think you shouldn't be bringing up such a serious discussion in the first place.
• Spartaaaaa wrote on 2012-05-05 22:24

  Quote from Ithiliel;856603:

  Did you just really place all the blame on a woman? Wooooooooow. It takes two to have sex, you know. Both the MAN and the WOMAN are to blame when it comes to pregnancy happening, not just the woman. The fact that you even pushed the blame solely on the woman makes me think you shouldn't be bringing up such a serious discussion in the first place.

  
  
  Well yes because the woman is the one giving the consent. Assuming that no rape is involved, it was the woman's choice to procreate.
  
  But yes, if the man was being pushy and/or manipulative, then part of the blame rests on him as well.
• Ithiliel wrote on 2012-05-05 22:32

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;856608:

  Well yes because the woman is the one giving the consent. Assuming that no rape is involved, it was the woman's choice to procreate.
  
  But yes, if the man was being pushy and/or manipulative, then part of the blame rests on him as well.

  
  
  Just because a women is giving consent doesn't mean it doesn't fall on BOTH parties to ask whether a contraceptive is being used or not. If neither party asks, and just assume, then they're both to blame not just the woman. It's that type of thinking, that the woman is to blame/is solely responsible when it comes to anything sexual, that has led to so many teen pregnancies and the whole mentality when it comes to rape of, "She was asking for it".
  
  Spartaaaa, you can't just lay the blame on a woman. That's really ridiculous, the man is consenting to having sex as well-why shouldn't he be held responsible for contraceptives too?
• Cynic wrote on 2012-05-05 22:40
  Unless a vagina can magically have sex with itself and then get pregnant, I hate you break it to ya', but it takes both to make a baby. It's both sexes responsibility whether you like to admit it or not.
  
  Just because a man cannot actually bare the child doesn't make him any less responsible.
  
  If a man willingly sticks his penis into a woman and has sex with her, he automatically gains responsibility for whatever may come of it.
  
  [SIZE="1"]inb4 "BUT ITZ DIFFERENT WHEN IT'S A DUDE CUZ WOMENZ IZ HOES"[/SIZE]
• Episkey wrote on 2012-05-05 23:04

  Quote from Spartaaaaa;856608:

  
  But yes, if the man was being pushy and/or manipulative, then part of the blame rests on him as well.

  
  
  ^
  Just pointing this out.
  
  
  Also, in the case of abortion, isn't it a majority of the time the woman's decision? I'm pretty sure that she holds the ultimate say in whether or not the abortion happens. Since it's "her body" after all.
  
  Therefore, the responsibility does seem to fall more on her. It's not really blame, so to speak - because both parties are involved in the process. However, this abortion scenario would be after the fact they had sex.