This was thoroughly depressing.

• Juno wrote on 2012-05-09 05:27

  Quote from Xxazurekitex;859059:

  When he said that the person's mother said it was a sin indicated that their reaction was partially based on religion.
  
  But I agree with the rest of what you said.

  
  
  Saying it's a sin and threatening him with a gun and/or threatening his partner are on two very different levels. I tried to be clear in saying that religion played a part, but that it was not the smoking gun.
• Xxazurekitex wrote on 2012-05-09 05:55

  Quote from Juno;859072:

  Saying it's a sin and threatening him with a gun and/or threatening his partner are on two very different levels. I tried to be clear in saying that religion played a part, but that it was not the smoking gun.

  
  
  Well, yeah, that's true.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2012-05-09 06:35
  Reminds me of this. http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=gay
  
  Anyways, its not just about gay people. His parents were just extremists. There are extremists for EVERYTHING, and this is only a small example of that. Its not about religion or political stances... its really just some people are crazy about some things.
  
  Also, given the way the video was made, rather very professionally designed, I have a feeling some of it may be a bit over the top exaggerated. That isn't to say its not a plausible scenario or that this is fake, but I'm not sure how I feel about this particular video.
• Lolicon wrote on 2012-05-09 06:49
  For some reason I want to start a debate because I'm a little offended by the contents of the thread. But I'll keep it to myself.
  
  Here's how I see it. I'm religious as you guys know and hate me for. Bear with me.
  I see homosexuality as a sin.
  Now, does it affect me in any way? No.
  Do you really care? Probably not.
  Do I give half a shit if you're gay or straight? Nope.
  
  Rules are for yourself to follow. Unless one has authority, it's not his job to enforce. And religiously, none of us have the power to judge. So just love each other guys, don't be hatin'.
• Chiyuri wrote on 2012-05-09 13:33

  Quote from Xxazurekitex;858982:

  This just goes to show that religion, of any form that regards homosexuality among other things as a sin (Which would be most if not all) are the things holding the god damned government back from doing anything because thats how people are raised: In religious cults that tell you "This is what you can like, this is what you can't like, This is what you can do, this is what you can't do, This is the kind of person you can be friends with, this is the kind of person you should ignore entirely"
  
  I'll just make one thing clear. You know how people look at groups that use god but are really some malformed thing and call it a cult? To me all forms of religions are cults worshiping something we don't even know if it exists because that's simply human nature for some people. They just need something to pray to that gives false hope (only later to be crushed if things go bad then have someone tell them "It happens for a reason"...BULL SHIT)
  
  All religion is bullshit and I don't care if I offend anyone. To me if we didn't have all of this, and if religion was moved from the equation. Then guess what you get?
  
  HOLY FUCKING SHIT IT'S WORLD PEACE. THERE'S NO DIFFERENT RELIGIONS TELLING US TO KILL EACH-OTHER IN THE NAME OF GOD!
  EVERYONE ACCEPTS EACH-OTHER.
  GAY PEOPLE CAN GET MARRIED.
  THE GOVERNMENT IS A LOT FUCKING BETTER AND NOT SOMEWHAT RELIGIOUSLY BIASED.
  MORE UNDERSTANDINGS ARE MADE.
  
  /endrant.
  
  Oh right the video.
  
  I do feel sorry for him. I just wish we can live in a world where no one cares if your L/G/B/T.
  Those parents are just religiously brainwashed assholes.

  
  
  Sadly.. a lot of wars are about getting recourses and land.. Religion is often just an excuse used to make the act seem "right" to the population. If there was no religion, people would just try to find other excuse, like "Hey, they attacked us first by sending a plane into our building, lets raid them!"
• Cynic wrote on 2012-05-09 13:42

  Quote from Chiyuri;859215:

  Sadly.. a lot of wars are about getting recourses and land.. Religion is often just an excuse used to make the act seem "right" to the population. If there was no religion, people would just try to find other excuse, like "Hey, they attacked us first by sending a plane into our building, lets raid them!"

  
  
  The thing about Religion, though, is it's not even a legit excuse.
  
  Religion is a personal belief. You have the right to a freedom of speech, but you do not have the right to impose your beliefs on others.
  You can't claim Religion is a reason to ban gay marriage because that's imposing your personal beliefs on someone.
  
  If gay marriage was bad for another reason-- i.e. all gay people were rapists or something, then yes, you'd have the right to oppose it.
  
  But simply stating that gay marriage offends you or your Religion is not a legit reason to oppose it. If you don't like gay marriage, then I guess you better not get gay married.
  
  Religious people do not nor should they have the right to impose their beliefs on others unless whatever they are opposing is actually something hurtful to society.
  
  But if Religion is a legit excuse to do so.. then why can't I claim that straight people marrying goes against my Religion? I should have the same right as Christians to deny straight people the right to marry, shouldn't I? What makes Christians (and all related Religions) so special that they get higher rights than everyone else?
  
  
  ...Oh, wait, they don't have special rights. Christians are people just like the rest of us. They're not special or holier than the rest of us. They don't get special treatment nor do they get to use Religion as an excuse to oppress others.
  
  
  (The bottom half is not directed at you btw, Chiyuri)
  
  
  
  Also, on a related note--
  
  

  [Image: http://i50.tinypic.com/2e4kpap.png]
• Chiyuri wrote on 2012-05-09 14:22

  Quote from Cynic;859220:

  The thing about Religion, though, is it's not even a legit excuse.
  
  Religion is a personal belief. You have the right to a freedom of speech, but you do not have the right to impose your beliefs on others.
  You can't claim Religion is a reason to ban gay marriage because that's imposing your personal beliefs on someone.
  
  If gay marriage was bad for another reason-- i.e. all gay people were rapists or something, then yes, you'd have the right to oppose it.
  
  But simply stating that gay marriage offends you or your Religion is not a legit reason to oppose it. If you don't like gay marriage, then I guess you better not get gay married.
  
  Religious people do not nor should they have the right to impose their beliefs on others unless whatever they are opposing is actually something hurtful to society.
  
  But if Religion is a legit excuse to do so.. then why can't I claim that straight people marrying goes against my Religion? I should have the same right as Christians to deny straight people the right to marry, shouldn't I? What makes Christians (and all related Religions) so special that they get higher rights than everyone else?
  
  
  ...Oh, wait, they don't have special rights. Christians are people just like the rest of us. They're not special or holier than the rest of us. They don't get special treatment nor do they get to use Religion as an excuse to oppress others.
  
  
  (The bottom half is not directed at you btw, Chiyuri)
  
  

  
  
  I already know all of that, which is why I wrote "right" with "" which mean I don't really agree with it.. I was just saying how even without dumb religion, people would still make war. It's in human nature.
• Rin wrote on 2012-05-09 14:29

  Quote from Cucurbita;859110:

  Also, given the way the video was made, rather very professionally designed, I have a feeling some of it may be a bit over the top exaggerated. That isn't to say its not a plausible scenario or that this is fake, but I'm not sure how I feel about this particular video.

  
  
  Kind of what I was thinking. I almost thought it was a scenario being played out.
  
  Regardless, those parents are extremists. Don't blame religion as the sole reason, as it encompasses some people who aren't extremists and who would never do this kind of thing to their children.
• Cynic wrote on 2012-05-09 14:47

  Quote from Chiyuri;859238:

  I already know all of that, which is why I wrote "right" with "" which mean I don't really agree with it.. I was just saying how even without dumb religion, people would still make war. It's in human nature.

  
  
  Nah, I know. The bottom half of what I wrote wasn't directed towards you. It was a comment towards the subject of Religion vs. gay marriage.
• Micho wrote on 2012-05-09 15:25

  Quote from Jerain;859115:

  For some reason I want to start a debate because I'm a little offended by the contents of the thread. But I'll keep it to myself.
  
  Here's how I see it. I'm religious as you guys know and hate me for. Bear with me.
  I see homosexuality as a sin.
  Now, does it affect me in any way? No.
  Do you really care? Probably not.
  Do I give half a shit if you're gay or straight? Nope.
  
  Rules are for yourself to follow. Unless one has authority, it's not his job to enforce. And religiously, none of us have the power to judge. So just love each other guys, don't be hatin'.

  
  
  I'm sorry you don't get to say that, seriously you don't.
  
  I'm so tired of religious people cherry picking rules, so homosexuality is a sin, that means I get to keep slaves right? Since we're following the Bible, can I stone your wife if she cheats on you?
  
  Times have changed, slavery has been ruled out, racism as well, we're trying to make progress with homosexuality, but these people just keep using a book to stop us. A friggin' book. I don't hate religion, I believe having a religion is beneficial for your spirituality, but it's fucktards who cherry pick rules that piss me.
  
  P.S. You can't eat shellfish I believe.
  
  Anyways, I watched this on tumblr, I cried. No one should go through that, unable to grieve for their loved one. Reminds of a comic strip of a lesbian couple with an equally sad story.
• Episkey wrote on 2012-05-09 15:33

  Quote from EndlessDreams;859034:

  
  Perhaps you want to take into account all of the thousands of no-longer practiced religions out there as well. There isn't much different between those and the current ones. Same for the ones that have yet to come. (or being created)

  
  
  Of course all religions are the same - they come from the same source.
  
  "The ruler of this world."
  
  Do an analysis on Biblical Christian beliefs compared to other religions and you will find many contrasting beliefs.
  A good place to start is how people get to Heaven.~
  
  

  Quote from EndlessDreams;859034:

  Clean water, electricity, this forums, high speed internet, computer... and etc...
  Those solely exist due to religion? Not because of a combination of business and science?

  
  
  Oh yeah! What's that called when someone makes up a bunch of examples from a claim; then refutes the made-up examples rather than the claim itself?
  
  Gezz ... I wasn't even remotely talking about any of those things.
  Although, I could make an argument for the distribution of clean water.
  
  Why don't you try for now - certain scientific advances or the actual existence of the country of America?
  
  
  

  Quote from Micho;859261:

  
  P.S. You can't eat shellfish I believe.

  
  
  No we can. Dietary laws in the Old Testament were in place for the nation of Israel.
  
  Since, shellfish can be quite unhealthy for you. However, the was just to family line before Jesus was born.
  When Jesus was born unto this Earth - he rightfully said "All animals are clean".
  
  Meaning, Christians don't need to observe any dietary restrictions - due to he Bible.
  
  EDIT:
  
  Also, isn't it quite ironic for you to be accusing Jerain of cherry picking - when you just did it yourself?
  You specifically quoted passages in the Old Testament to further your claim.
  
  The contriversial belief that homosexuality is a sin, has its basis on the New Testament of the Bible.
  Even if it wasn't a sin - lying, stealing, desiring other's possessions are all sins.
  
  We still are all liable of going to Hell anyway, homosexual or not.
• Micho wrote on 2012-05-09 15:44
  LOL, I don't the difference between from the Old or the New Testament, just choosing all the rules that I remember that are were simply crazy.
  
  But yeah if there is hell, we're all going to burn, according to the "rules" anyways.
• Cynic wrote on 2012-05-09 16:15

  Quote from Micho;859267:

  LOL, I don't the difference between from the Old or the New Testament, just choosing all the rules that I remember that are were simply crazy.
  
  But yeah if there is hell, we're all going to burn, according to the "rules" anyways.

  
  
  Actttuuuaaalllyy, no. (The below text isn't really directed towards you, Micho, but is rather me talking about the issue itself like in my prior post)
  
  From what I've observed from all anti-gay Religious folk is that homosexuality has only been top priority because of (but not limited to) the following reasons;
  
  - Sexuality is a choice (which doesn't make any sense since it wouldn't be any different from being straight if sexuality truly is a conscious choice)
  - Gay people cannot reproduce (which also makes no sense because there are also straight people who cannot reproduce or even INTENTIONALLY "fix" themselves so they cannot reproduce)
  - If all else fails; THE BIBLE SAYS IT'S A SIN SO IT'S A SIN
  
  
  Now, ignoring the fact that all evidence against homosexuality can be pretty easily proven false, the biggest argument is still "But the Bible says it's a sin, and the Bible is God's word and is therefore absolute".
  
  ..The thing about that, though, is that most of the hate/bigotry/prejudice written in the Bible was common when the Bible was written. So while Religious folk can claim that it's all a "coincidence" and cannot possibly have been written in by a human, it's pretty daft to deny that there's a chance that some of what is included in the Bible isn't God's word, but was rather added in by a greedy human.
  
  
  Though all in all, they're still hypocrites. I've heard the excuses like "Oh, well we're only human so naturally we can't follow everything in the Bible" or "Oh, you can't take everything from the Bible literally" or even "Oh, well homosexuality is different". But really, the fact remains that were it not for the Bible speaking against homosexuality, we wouldn't have nearly as much opposition towards it as we do now.
  
  Obviously homophobes would still exist either way, but I can pretty much guarantee that they'd be much fewer in numbers.
  
  Butttttt either way, though, it's still not an excuse. You have no right to tell other's how to run their lives unless someone else is getting hurt in the process; it's why we oppose rapists, murders and other people of that nature.
  
  For example; do a majority of people try to oppress black people anymore? No, we don't. Because we've grown up and realized that there's no legit reason to hate or oppress them simply because they're "different" than us. They are not actually, as a group, harmful to society in any way. LGBT people are the same as black people in that regard.
  
  The Bible is still one of the primary reasons why such strong, cruel and basically retarded opposition still exists against 'um, though. Trying to deny that is just as stupid as trying to make sense of the bullshit fake-ass logic that the Bible uses to try and oppress people it doesn't like.
• Episkey wrote on 2012-05-09 16:26

  Quote from Micho;859267:

  
  But yeah if there is hell, we're all going to burn, according to the "rules" anyways.

  
  
  What rules?
  
  The fact that human beings are sinful and as such we can't enter Heaven - isn't a rule. It's just a statement of fact.
  Heaven is a perfect place, humans aren't perfect - therefore, we can't enter Heaven by our own means.
  
  

  Quote from Cynic;859269:

  
  Now, ignoring the fact that all evidence against homosexuality can be pretty easily proven false, the biggest argument is still "But the Bible says it's a sin, and the Bible is God's word and is therefore absolute".

  
  
  What evidence, or rather claim against homosexuality, can be proven false?
  
  Also, that isn't the biggest argument against homosexuality.
  
  

  Quote from Cynic;859269:

  
  ..The thing about that, though, is that most of the hate/bigotry/prejudice written in the Bible was common when the Bible was written. So while Religious folk can claim that it's all a "coincidence" and cannot possibly have been written in by a human, it's pretty daft to deny that there's a chance that some of what is included in the Bible isn't God's word, but was rather added in by a greedy human.

  
  
  The Bible was written in scrolls. It would be impossible to simply "remove" a section from a scroll.
  
  Additional scrolls and supplemental words have always tried to creep into the Bible. But, with scrutiny and analyzation - they have been consistently rejected.
  
  Also, when was the Bible written?
• whocares8128 wrote on 2012-05-09 16:57

  Quote from Episkey;859273:

  Also, when was the Bible written?

  
  
  That depends on which version you're referring to, and which part.
  
  

  Quote from Episkey;859273:

  Heaven is a perfect place, humans aren't perfect - therefore, we can't enter Heaven by our own means.

  
  
  Why would God, an unquestionably perfect being, create such imperfect creatures?
  
  
  Edit:
  Also, wars would continue to exist without religion. Those in power would simply find (or make up) another excuse to use for invading/attacking neighboring areas.