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Taycat wrote on 2012-06-28 14:54
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Cynic wrote on 2012-06-28 15:20
A wise choice.
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Selithia wrote on 2012-06-28 15:26
Kinda surprised, actually.
The law on it's own is pretty unfulfilling, but it did have enough little caveats and extra bits to make it an improvement over the past.
Now if only the US could get it's act together and implement single-payer/UHC like the rest of the civilized world, then we might be somewhere!
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Sekwaf wrote on 2012-06-28 16:23
Do not want. I'm a bit tired of tax payer money going to the unproductive lot that just live off the stuff. Why work when wellfare will buy the groceries and booze for you? No need to get a job in-case something bad happens to you, because guess what, the people that do have money just payed your hospital bill for you. The system doesn't encourage people to work. And don't get me started on the illegal immigrants.
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Phunkie wrote on 2012-06-28 17:38
YES!!
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Morrigan wrote on 2012-06-28 17:48
Quote from Sekwaf;896059:
Do not want. I'm a bit tired of tax payer money going to the unproductive lot that just live off the stuff. Why work when wellfare will buy the groceries and booze for you? No need to get a job in-case something bad happens to you, because guess what, the people that do have money just payed your hospital bill for you. The system doesn't encourage people to work. And don't get me started on the illegal immigrants.
^
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Phunkie wrote on 2012-06-28 17:51
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Taycat wrote on 2012-06-28 17:58
Quote from Sekwaf;896059:
Do not want. I'm a bit tired of tax payer money going to the unproductive lot that just live off the stuff. Why work when wellfare will buy the groceries and booze for you? No need to get a job in-case something bad happens to you, because guess what, the people that do have money just payed your hospital bill for you. The system doesn't encourage people to work. And don't get me started on the illegal immigrants.
And what about the people who can't find a job because all the jobs are taken? What then?
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Spartaaaaa wrote on 2012-06-28 19:05
Another step on the
Road to Serfdom...
Quote from Mythical Detective Loki;896123:
And what about the people who can't find a job because all the jobs are taken? What then?
That's a whole other discussion about
minimum wage (and various other regulations) and how it restricts the number of jobs available.
Why socialized healthcare fails:
But why are rates high and increasing rapidly? The answer is the very existence of health-care insurance, which was established or subsidized or promoted by the government to help ease the previous burden of medical care. Medicare, Blue Cross, etc., are also very peculiar forms of "insurance."
If your house burns down and you have fire insurance, you receive (if you can pry the money loose from your friendly insurance company) a compensating fixed money benefit. For this privilege, you pay in advance a fixed annual premium. Only in our system of medical insurance, does the government or Blue Cross pay, not a fixed sum, but whatever the doctor or hospital chooses to charge.
In economic terms, this means that the demand curve for physicians and hospitals can rise without limit. In short, in a form grotesquely different from Say's Law, the suppliers can literally create their own demand through unlimited third-party payments to pick up the tab. If demand curves rise virtually without limit, so too do the prices of the service.
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Murray Rothbard
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Yoorah wrote on 2012-06-28 20:18
It's easy to say that this is a good development in terms of the interpretation of the law, because the basis of any health care system absolutely requires that everyone pay into it regardless of whether they are healthy or sick. (Unless you are OK with a system where you cannot get emergency treatment at a hospital when you can't pay for it.. like say you got into an accident, much like how most stores/service providers work.) Without this capability for the government, healthy people would not buy insurance and sick people would be denied coverage (or coverage would be prohibitively expensive because treating sick people is prohibitively expensive).
Think about it: You're running an insurance company. How would you make any money (or even stay afloat, for that matter) if your best customers, the healthy people who pay you for a policy but don't need you to pay for their care stop buying insurance from you? And on top of that, the government forces you to insure the huge masses of fat people (no pun intended) who require you to pay for their expensive care all the time. Your company won't last.
As such, the court ruling is good because it makes true health care reform possible in the US.
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As for Obama's law, it has some good things in it and will help people in the short term, but it sucks overall because if you look at the bigger picture, it puts more strain on a (and gives more legitimacy to a) broken health care system by throwing more money at it. Sure, there's some preventative care stuff in there, but you need to go much further. If politicians decide to just use the law as an excuse to settle with the current system, then the law will do harm to the nation.
As it stands, the American health care system is itself on life support, and Obama's law doesn't change that.
PS. The thread title's wrong! The court didn't uphold the entire law.
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The stupid stuff:
@Sparta: As I've said before, lowering the minimum wage wouldn't help anyone but business owners.
That said, the jobless situation in the US is more about people unwilling to work lower wage jobs than the ones they had before, the unwillingness to move to another city/state with better work opportunities, etc. Making excuses is easy and stuff, actually working is harder.
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Spartaaaaa wrote on 2012-06-28 21:39
Quote from Yoorah;896213:
The stupid stuff:
@Sparta: As I've said before, lowering the minimum wage wouldn't help anyone but business owners.
That said, the jobless situation in the US is more about people unwilling to work lower wage jobs than the ones they had before, the unwillingness to move to another city/state with better work opportunities, etc. Making excuses is easy and stuff, actually working is harder.
For one, it would help the people who would be willing to work below minimum wage but are not allowed to negotiate such an arrangement with employers because of minimum wage laws. But yes, I understand that minimum wage is not the only factor in unemployment numbers.
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Kingofrunes wrote on 2012-06-28 21:53
I really need to stop looking at facebook as my family is overwhelmingly pro-military, and anti-socialism in any regard.
Example...
My brother hates this and posted an image stating that the constitution is dead because of this.
*sigh*
Oh wells. *le shrug* Can't run away from how I was raised. I can control what I believe in now. My only beef for this is, what about the people who can't afford health insurance? Do they now have to pay a tax that they cannot afford?
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Spartaaaaa wrote on 2012-06-28 22:00
Quote from Kingofrunes;896272:
I really need to stop looking at facebook as my family is overwhelmingly pro-military, and anti-socialism in any regard.
Example...
My brother hates this and posted an image stating that the constitution is dead because of this.
*sigh*
Oh wells. *le shrug* Can't run away from how I was raised. I can control what I believe in now. My only beef for this is, what about the people who can't afford health insurance? Do they now have to pay a tax that they cannot afford?
lol I would say the Constitution died a while ago (*points at all unconstitutional wars after WWII*)
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Claudia wrote on 2012-06-29 00:30
I just hope we end up paying less money.
Y'alls are lucky that most of you (from what I gather, so my bad if you're also in the same boat we are) aren't paying $100's a month out-of-pocket plus a shitload of money for a premium that still makes us pay a shitload out-of-pocket.
Still trying to wrap my head around this. I see this as a good thing, as much as I loathe the idea of millions of people 'leeching', for lack of a better term. This WILL help people. Despite what many people think, the US has a fantastic quality of care (read: I did not say best healthcare system), but what good is it if 47 million citizens can't take advantage of it?
But again, living in MA, everyone is already required to have insurance so the hullabaloo about the 1/1/14 deadline confounds me. The rich healthy people already pay out-of-pocket for everything and couldn't give half a shit that they get taxed for not having insurance.
Hell, maybe these incentives will lead my dad's boss to giving us good healthcare again. Support small businesses!
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BobYoMeowMeow wrote on 2012-06-29 03:27
hey
now Sanctorum won't be refused health insurance