[KR TEST] Armor masteries and stat/skill rebalancing

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FallenDanny wrote on 2013-03-20 07:52

Let's just wait and see, this game was already severely easy with buffed out lances and buffed puppets.

Having strider on your boots adds a lot of balance, site for the outfit wouldn't be so bad either.

But when it comes to puppets or archery it seems like heavy armor wouldn't be the best of choices.
This does hurt hybriding with heavy armor unless you find defense more important than dmg.

But I wouldn't call this a huge nerf for everything except gunners/mages/alchemists. I'd call this specializing heavy armor for what it's suppose to do which is protecting your body but at the cost of easy free movement. So for heavy armor users this would make hybriding less favorable.

But honestly, I'm expecting a lot of changes to all this new stuff. :thumb:
Yakumo Yukari wrote on 2013-03-20 07:55

Quote from Locke;1052072:
My point is that these skill sets have caused a gross over-centralized meta game in which, to be successful, you go to the either Ranged, which undoubtedly needed some sort of nerf purely from the merit of the power creep it represents, or melee, which while being a very good go-to option for stable damage, also is over-powered in its own right and is showing signs of power creep. The nerf is minor, and if anything, would bring these two skill sets that have been basically the only competitive sets as far as damage output for a while, and lower them to the level that magic and alchemy are put to due to their buff.

Clearly you haven't seen Fighter or Puppets either. Alchemy/bard are more of a utility skillset, and mage is getting a buff. So that covers all 6 current classes (blah, guns).

These skills are only overpowered WITH REFORGES. Just like magic is/will be. Alchemy needed a buff due to the power creep and magic gets screwed over by ping and low base damage. That's why they're not used as often. Upping the damage would have been fine. It's got nothing to do with the other skillsets being "overpowered".

If anything is getting a truly noticeable nerf from this update, it would be puppeteer, and puppeteer has needed some sort of nerf since it was released. Sure, it takes dedication to two stats to achieve "end-game" puppeteer damage, but even the average player with just one of these stats fairly high can decimate almost anything hard-mode and below with high ranked puppet skills.

Yes, puppets are getting shafted. No, puppets didn't need a nerf. No, you can't steamroll anything hardmode and below with high ranked puppets just being an average player.

Source: Rank 1 puppet skills, 500 str/dex.
Piconoe wrote on 2013-03-20 07:58

Quote from JoeyDee9;1052046:
Let the day 1 testing fizzle out. I'm can almost guarantee some changes will be made to what we see today.

If you've ever played D&D all heavy armors come with a dex penalty (and a magic penalty but apparently mabi doesn't agree with that). It makes perfect sense to take a reduction to dex while wearing heavy armor. And it does by no means kill hybriding, you just have to suck up the loss of piercing and balance and deal with it. I know a player who does fighter in heavy armor because he likes the extra defense, the game isn't all about damage. Heavy armor may become a defensive players dream while light armor becomes a damage players paradise.

This. A thousand times this.

God forbid you can't have everything and have to choose between damage and defense. Also, since the balance cap for all armors is 50% before outside boosts, with enough Dex, you can bring balance up to 50% even with the armor. Another thing is it's Armor Mastery for a reason. You master the use of the armor and get used to moving around in it. The Dex drop is going to be reduced upon reaching R1 to a small amount that'd be easily offset by your high Dex scores if you were to stop whining about it like a little kid and just play.
Yakumo Yukari wrote on 2013-03-20 08:00

Quote from Piconoe;1052080:
This. A thousand times this.

God forbid you can't have everything and have to choose between damage and defense. Also, since the balance cap for all armors is 50% before outside boosts, with enough Dex, you can bring balance up to 50% even with the armor. Another thing is it's Armor Mastery for a reason. You master the use of the armor and get used to moving around in it. The Dex drop is going to be reduced upon reaching R1 to a small amount that'd be easily offset by your high Dex scores if you were to stop whining about it like a little kid and just play.

Watch out, we have a badass over here.

Perhaps we don't want armour for defence but instead want it for things like Sight es and thames set bonus or explosion defence (lol, ikr)?
Yakumo Yukari wrote on 2013-03-20 08:00

Quote from Piconoe;1052080:
This. A thousand times this.

God forbid you can't have everything and have to choose between damage and defense. Also, since the balance cap for all armors is 50% before outside boosts, with enough Dex, you can bring balance up to 50% even with the armor. Another thing is it's Armor Mastery for a reason. You master the use of the armor and get used to moving around in it. The Dex drop is going to be reduced upon reaching R1 to a small amount that'd be easily offset by your high Dex scores if you were to stop whining about it like a little kid and just play.

Watch out, we have a badass over here.

Perhaps we don't want armour for defence but instead want it for things like Sight es and thames set bonus or explosion defence (lol, ikr)?
radionoise wrote on 2013-03-20 08:01

I don't see how anything but ONE form of giant melee is really affected by the balance thing.

Range is unchanged, if anything crossbow mastery got a unknown buff of some sort. You get 65% balance from dex and ranged attack, and then all the good bows have like 60~80% balance on top of that.

Human melee is unchanged, you get 80% balance from dex, combat mastery and sword mastery alone.

Lances are mostly unchanged, you get 65% balance from dex, combat mastery and 7~12 balance from knight lance.

Giant melee can still get 80% with iron mace ego and warhammer, it's only dual warhammer setup that would be missing a bit of balance.
radionoise wrote on 2013-03-20 08:01

I don't see how anything but ONE form of giant melee is really affected by the balance thing.

Range is unchanged, if anything crossbow mastery got a unknown buff of some sort. You get 65% balance from dex and ranged attack, and then all the good bows have like 60~80% balance on top of that.

Human melee is unchanged, you get 80% balance from dex, combat mastery and sword mastery alone.

Lances are mostly unchanged, you get 65% balance from dex, combat mastery and 7~12 balance from knight lance.

Giant melee can still get 80% with iron mace ego and warhammer, it's only dual warhammer setup that would be missing a bit of balance.
Locke wrote on 2013-03-20 08:04

Even before reforges, using range or melee made the game loleasymode. Reforges exacerbated the issue, but that's a whole other problem that needs to be dealt with. Fighter sucks with heavy armor unless you're a giant to begin with, so that's a fairly invalid point on the topic of nerfs, and Fighter truly doesn't need a nerf. Fighter gets big numbers, woo hoo. Now if Fighter had a legitimate AoE skill, that would be different. Even if you just upped the damage of magic and alchemy to be on par with Range and Melee, there's still the factor of preparation time. Not to mention that traditionally, Magic should be capable of having higher single-hit damage than pretty much anything else, at the cost of having preparation times. If the amount of damage available for melee and ranged, even before reforges, isn't enough for someone, then the damage isn't the problem. It's the playstyle that's the problem. Rather than demanding the ability to forsake strategy and teamwork in order to be able to just 1-2 hit kill anything isn't going to make the game last very long, especially an MMO.
ca25nada wrote on 2013-03-20 08:06

The new mastery skills are surprisingly low (...) in AP requirements as of right now.

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/4u1k4Ms.png]

Heavy Armor Mastery
[SPOILER="Spoiler"]
Novice?
AP: 0 / Skill CP: 0 / Phys.Def Bonus 1 / Phys.Prot Bonus 1 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Knockdown Resist +1% /Can use 0 Accessory / Dex -50%
Rank: F
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 2 / Phys.Def Bonus 1 / Phys.Prot Bonus 1 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Knockdown Resist +1% /Can use 0 Accessory / Dex -50%
Rank: E
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 5 / Phys.Def Bonus 2 / Phys.Prot Bonus 1 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Knockdown Resist +1% /Can use 0 Accessory / Dex -50%
Rank: D
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 10 / Phys.Def Bonus 3 / Phys.Prot Bonus 2 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Knockdown Resist +1% /Can use 0 Accessory / Dex -50%
Rank: C
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 15 / Phys.Def Bonus 4 / Phys.Prot Bonus 2 / Magic Def Bonus 1 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Knockdown Resist +2% /Can use 0 Accessory / Dex -50%
Rank: B
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 20 / Phys.Def Bonus 5 / Phys.Prot Bonus 3 / Magic Def Bonus 1 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Knockdown Resist +2% /Can use 0 Accessory / Dex -50%
Rank: A
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 25 / Phys.Def Bonus 6 / Phys.Prot Bonus 3 / Magic Def Bonus 2 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Knockdown Resist +2% /Can use 0 Accessory / Dex -50%
Rank: 9
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 30 / Phys.Def Bonus 8 / Phys.Prot Bonus 5 / Magic Def Bonus 2 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Knockdown Resist +3% /Can use 1 Accessory / Dex -45%
Rank: 8
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 35 / Phys.Def Bonus 9 / Phys.Prot Bonus 5 / Magic Def Bonus 3 / Magic Prot Bonus 1 / Knockdown Resist +3% /Can use 1 Accessory / Dex -45%
Rank: 7
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 40 / Phys.Def Bonus 10 / Phys.Prot Bonus 6 / Magic Def Bonus 3 / Magic Prot Bonus 1 / Knockdown Resist +3% /Can use 1 Accessory / Dex -45%
Rank: 6
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 45 / Phys.Def Bonus 11 / Phys.Prot Bonus 6 / Magic Def Bonus 4 / Magic Prot Bonus 1 / Knockdown Resist +4% /Can use 1 Accessory / Dex -45%
Rank: 5
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 50 / Phys.Def Bonus 12 / Phys.Prot Bonus 7 / Magic Def Bonus 5 / Magic Prot Bonus 2 / Knockdown Resist +4% /Can use 1 Accessories / Dex -40%
Rank: 4
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 55 / Phys.Def Bonus 14 / Phys.Prot Bonus 7 / Magic Def Bonus 6 / Magic Prot Bonus 2 / Knockdown Resist +4% /Can use 1 Accessories / Dex -40%
Rank: 3
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 60 / Phys.Def Bonus 16 / Phys.Prot Bonus 8 / Magic Def Bonus 7 / Magic Prot Bonus 3 / Knockdown Resist +5% /Can use 2 Accessories / Dex -40%
Rank: 2
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 65 / Phys.Def Bonus 18 / Phys.Prot Bonus 9 / Magic Def Bonus 8 / Magic Prot Bonus 4 / Knockdown Resist +5% /Can use 2 Accessories / Dex -40%
Rank: 1
AP: 3 / Skill CP: 80 / Phys.Def Bonus 20 / Phys.Prot Bonus 10 / Magic Def Bonus 10 / Magic Prot Bonus 5 / Knockdown Resist +6% /Can use 2 Accessories / Dex -35%[/SPOILER]

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/SoZrtx7.png]

Light Armor Mastery
[SPOILER="Spoiler"]
Novice?
AP: 0 / Skill CP: 0 / Phys.Def Bonus 0 / Phys.Prot Bonus 0 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 /Can use 1 Accessory
Rank: F
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 2 / Phys.Def Bonus 1 / Phys.Prot Bonus 0 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 /Can use 1 Accessory
Rank: E
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 5 / Phys.Def Bonus 1 / Phys.Prot Bonus 0 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 /Can use 1 Accessory
Rank: D
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 10 / Phys.Def Bonus 2 / Phys.Prot Bonus 0 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 /Can use 1 Accessory
Rank: C
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 15 / Phys.Def Bonus 2 / Phys.Prot Bonus 1 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 /Can use 1 Accessory
Rank: B
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 20 / Phys.Def Bonus 3 / Phys.Prot Bonus 1 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0/Can use 1Accessory
Rank: A
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 25 / Phys.Def Bonus 3 / Phys.Prot Bonus 1 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 /Can use 1 Accessory
Rank: 9
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 30 / Phys.Def Bonus 4 / Phys.Prot Bonus 2 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 /Can use 1 Accessory
Rank: 8
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 35 / Phys.Def Bonus 5 / Phys.Prot Bonus 2 / Magic Def Bonus 1 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 /Can use 1 Accessory
Rank: 7
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 40 / Phys.Def Bonus 6 / Phys.Prot Bonus 2 / Magic Def Bonus 2 / Magic Prot Bonus 1 /Can use 2 Accessories
Rank: 6
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 45 / Phys.Def Bonus 6 / Phys.Prot Bonus 3 / Magic Def Bonus 3 / Magic Prot Bonus 1 /Can use 2 Accessories
Rank: 5
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 50 / Phys.Def Bonus 7 / Phys.Prot Bonus 3 / Magic Def Bonus 4 / Magic Prot Bonus 1 /Can use 2 Accessories
Rank: 4
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 55 / Phys.Def Bonus 7 / Phys.Prot Bonus 3 / Magic Def Bonus 5 / Magic Prot Bonus 2 /Can use 2 Accessories
Rank: 3
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 60 / Phys.Def Bonus 8 / Phys.Prot Bonus 4 / Magic Def Bonus 6 / Magic Prot Bonus 2 /Can use 2 Accessories
Rank: 2
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 65 / Phys.Def Bonus 8 / Phys.Prot Bonus 4 / Magic Def Bonus 7 / Magic Prot Bonus 2 /Can use 2 Accessories
Rank: 1
AP: 3 / Skill CP: 80 / Phys.Def Bonus 10 / Phys.Prot Bonus 5 / Magic Def Bonus 8 / Magic Prot Bonus 3 / Can use 2 Accessories[/SPOILER]

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/Cql8Rbr.png]

Shield Mastery
[SPOILER="Spoiler"]Novice?
AP: 0 / Skill CP: 0 / Phys.Def Bonus 1 / Phys.Prot Bonus 0 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Auto Def 2%
Rank: F
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 10 / Phys.Def Bonus 5 / Phys.Prot Bonus 1 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Auto Def 3%
Rank: E
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 15 / Phys.Def Bonus 7 / Phys.Prot Bonus 2 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Auto Def 3%
Rank: D
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 20 / Phys.Def Bonus 9 / Phys.Prot Bonus 3 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Auto Def 3%
Rank: C
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 30 / Phys.Def Bonus 11 / Phys.Prot Bonus 4 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Auto Def 3%
Rank: B
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 35 / Phys.Def Bonus 13 / Phys.Prot Bonus 5 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0/ Auto Def 3%
Rank: A
AP: 1 / Skill CP: 40 / Phys.Def Bonus 15 / Phys.Prot Bonus 6 / Magic Def Bonus 0 / Magic Prot Bonus 0 / Auto Def 3%
Rank: 9
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 50 / Phys.Def Bonus 20 / Phys.Prot Bonus 7 / Magic Def Bonus 1 / Magic Prot Bonus 1 / Auto Def 5%
Rank: 8
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 60 / Phys.Def Bonus 21 / Phys.Prot Bonus 8 / Magic Def Bonus 2 / Magic Prot Bonus 1 / Auto Def 5%
Rank: 7
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 65 / Phys.Def Bonus 22 / Phys.Prot Bonus 9 / Magic Def Bonus 3 / Magic Prot Bonus 2 / Auto Def 5%
Rank: 6
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 70 / Phys.Def Bonus 23 / Phys.Prot Bonus 10 / Magic Def Bonus 5 / Magic Prot Bonus 2 / Auto Def 5%
Rank: 5
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 75 / Phys.Def Bonus 24 / Phys.Prot Bonus 11 / Magic Def Bonus 7 / Magic Prot Bonus 3 / Auto Def 6%
Rank: 4
AP: 2 / Skill CP: 80 / Phys.Def Bonus 25 / Phys.Prot Bonus 12 / Magic Def Bonus 9 / Magic Prot Bonus 3 / Auto Def 6%
Rank: 3
AP: 3 / Skill CP: 85 / Phys.Def Bonus 26 / Phys.Prot Bonus 13 / Magic Def Bonus 11 / Magic Prot Bonus 4 / Auto Def 7%
Rank: 2
AP: 3 / Skill CP: 90 / Phys.Def Bonus 28 / Phys.Prot Bonus 14 / Magic Def Bonus 13 / Magic Prot Bonus 4 / Auto Def 7%
Rank: 1
AP: 5 / Skill CP: 100 / Phys.Def Bonus 30 / Phys.Prot Bonus 15 / Magic Def Bonus 15 / Magic Prot Bonus 5 / Auto Def 8% [/SPOILER]

Edit: Shield Mastery Added
Edit2: Note that none of these skills give stat bonuses
Reyaxris wrote on 2013-03-20 08:13

Quote from Yakumo Yukari;1052079:

Yes, puppets are getting shafted. No, puppets didn't need a nerf. No, you can't steamroll anything hardmode and below with high ranked puppets just being an average player.

Source: Rank 1 puppet skills, 500 str/dex.

What? Really? You can't steamroll anything hardmode with puppets???
Yakumo Yukari wrote on 2013-03-20 08:18

Quote from Locke;1052086:
Even before reforges, using range or melee made the game loleasymode. Reforges exacerbated the issue, but that's a whole other problem that needs to be dealt with. Fighter sucks with heavy armor unless you're a giant to begin with, so that's a fairly invalid point on the topic of nerfs, and Fighter truly doesn't need a nerf. Fighter gets big numbers, woo hoo. Now if Fighter had a legitimate AoE skill, that would be different. Even if you just upped the damage of magic and alchemy to be on par with Range and Melee, there's still the factor of preparation time. Not to mention that traditionally, Magic should be capable of having higher single-hit damage than pretty much anything else, at the cost of having preparation times. If the amount of damage available for melee and ranged, even before reforges, isn't enough for someone, then the damage isn't the problem. It's the playstyle that's the problem. Rather than demanding the ability to forsake strategy and teamwork in order to be able to just 1-2 hit kill anything isn't going to make the game last very long, especially an MMO.

Can you tell me what you smoke? It must be some good stuff.

I'm sorry. 99% of the population of this game does not fit into the 1000000000 total level. Just using melee or range does not make the game easy mode, especially for newer players.

And load time for more damage? Lol, hailstorm.

Quote from Reyaxris;1052090:
[/B]

What? Really? You can't steamroll anything hardmode with puppets???

No.
Aubog007 wrote on 2013-03-20 08:21

Quote from Yakumo Yukari;1052091:
Can you tell me what you smoke? It must be some good stuff.

I'm sorry. 99% of the population of this game does not fit into the 1000000000 total level. Just using melee or range does not make the game easy mode, especially for newer players.

And load time for more damage? Lol, hailstorm.

No.

I can steamroll elite naked, it is because you lag, also puppetry finesse, it takes practice and skill, hence video suggestion i was going to do.

Lol the new skills are worthless, only ranking shield mastery because alchemy, these give no stats whatsoever.
radionoise wrote on 2013-03-20 08:21

How exactly is anything getting shafted?
You still get 80% balance with almost every form of combat with just the weapons, dex and mastery.
Heavy armor dex penalty only applies if you wear heavy armor.
Reyaxris wrote on 2013-03-20 08:22

Quote from Yakumo Yukari;1052091:
Can you tell me what you smoke? It must be some good stuff.

I'm sorry. 99% of the population of this game does not fit into the 1000000000 total level. Just using melee or range does not make the game easy mode, especially for newer players.

And load time for more damage? Lol, hailstorm.

No.

That is mind boggling. I have sub-par STR as compared to you and yet I just roflstomp nearly every HM mission. Hell, I ran Shadow Wizard HM Alone... and I only have 3 Clouds. Do you lag badly enough that puppet isn't efficient for you?
Yakumo Yukari wrote on 2013-03-20 08:24

Quote from radionoise;1052095:
How exactly is anything getting shafted?
You still get 80% balance with almost every form of combat with just the weapons, dex and mastery.
Heavy armor dex penalty only applies if you wear heavy armor.

Set effects. Perhaps if there was another way to get them apart from heavy armo-

Oh wait, prefix titles. Huehuehue.

Quote from Aubog007;1052094:
I can steamroll elite naked, it is because you lag, also puppetry finesse, it takes practice and skill, hence video suggestion i was going to do.

Lol the new skills are worthless, only ranking shield mastery because alchemy, these give no stats whatsoever.

Quote from Reyaxris;1052096:
That is mind boggling. I have sub-par STR as compared to you and yet I just roflstomp nearly every HM mission. Hell, I ran Shadow Wizard HM Alone... and I only have 3 Clouds. Do you lag badly enough that puppet isn't efficient for you?

I can't even run wiz int solo with puppets unless act 4/6/7 kills everything in the room in one go.

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