Rape

• Taycat wrote on 2013-03-23 08:11
  I don't get it. Why are people always blaming the victims of rape? Saying that "you wore something revealing, you deserved it" or "you should have said no" but then when it comes down to it, those people don't even know what it feels like. They don't understand how horrifying it can be to the body and mind. They're too absorbed in staying away from the victim and making them feel even worse because of it. People always say that it's the fault of the victim and that there's nothing that can be done. "Get over it" is something commonly said. I assume most of those people don't even know a person who was raped. Because if you knew someone and you care for them a whole lot then you'd definitely get mad at whoever raped them. Of course, by the time it all happened, they wouldn't be able to get much help since there are more laws protecting the unborn fetus. The fetus that was conceived from rape. A woman can't decide what to do with her a body, the man decides. Why is that? Why can't we decide on our own what's best for our bodies? Is it because we're "weak" to men? Or is it because too many people are too religious for their own good and forget that we are a country where we can all be free? That's something I don't understand. People scream that we are all "god's children" and "god loves you no matter what" but if we try to do anything people don't like, they start throwing back things at us? A man raping a woman is a crime and the same goes for a woman raping a man. The latter being more rare than the former. I don't understand this world.
  
  I'll start another thread at another time discussing what people think about "the bible" and some of it's "laws".
  Keep in mind, this is a civil discussion, therefore, no flaming of any kind. If any is seen, a mod will be notified via reporting and your posts will be cleaned up.
• Hanna wrote on 2013-03-23 11:32
  Rape is one of the two times I approve of abortion, anything other than that means I have 0 respect for you.
  Anyway, we're living in a rape culture where rape jokes are funny and people don't realize 1 in every 4? women will be sexually assaulted in their life.
  
  80% of rapes happen by people the victim knows, do dressing "slutty" and going out at night have almost nothing to do with rape. If my co-worker decides he's going to rape me, it doesn't matter what I wear, where I go, how I act.
  
  Most of the time rape is about control and humiliation.
  A lot of time the victims are humiliated by being pissed and shit on, tortured, or even killed.
  
  The second someone says "Well, the victim should have-" they should be punched in the god damn face.
  Rape is never, and I mean NEVER the victims fault.
  
  Men are 100% capable of controlling themselves and whenever someone claims that it was the victims fault they are insulting men by saying they are driven by instinct rather than thought. Y'know what makes humans, humans.
  
  82 percent of the victims said that the experience had permanently changed them.
  
  Sexual assault is reported by 33% to 46% of women who are being physically assaulted by their husbands.
  
  It is estimated that fewer than 50% of rapes are reported.
  
  Male victims represent 5% of reported sexual assaults.
  
  92% of adolescent rape victims know their assailants. Acquaintance rape is particularly common among adolescent victims.
  
  On college campuses:
  
  One in eight college women are raped
  84% of those women knew their assailant
  57% of those rapes happened on a date
  90% of rape involving college students is considered acquaintance rape
  
  In a survey of over 6000 male college students:
  
  35% anonymously admitted that, under certain circumstances, they would commit rape if they believed they could get away with it
  One in 12 admitted to committing acts that met the legal definitions of rape
  84% of men who committed rape did not label it as rape
  43% of college-aged men admitted to using coercive behavior to have sex, including ignoring a woman's protest, using physical aggression, and forcing intercourse
  15% acknowledged they had committed acquaintance rape, and of these 11% acknowledged using physical restraints to force a woman to have sex.
  
  REAL MEN DON'T RAPE
  
  When it's okay to say "Yeah, well, men get raped too"
  
  

  
  
  • When someone says that men aren't victims of sexual assault
    

  
  That's it
  Females are the majority, and males are also victims, yes, but stating something like that when it's not needed makes it seem like you're trying to diminish that fact that rape happens to women as often as it does by arguing against it. It has less to do with promoting awareness about male rape but more to do with "Oh, well, I don't like how to were offended by my joke/annoyed with your rape discussion/disliked that you used "women". It's insulting and another clear sign of rape culture.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2013-03-23 11:49
  The problem with reality is that bad things can happen to good people.
  
  Nobody should have to change their dress and appearance in order to potentially curtail any blame shifted to them following sexual assault. The problem is that rape is a rather taboo subject and most people simply do not know how to deal with it appropriately. I won't fault someone for cracking an offensive joke so long as they don't hold particularly malicious intent. Some people simply don't know how to react and humor is a sort of outlet for those people.
  
  However, we do live in a society which has essentially accepted that "dressing like a slut" will "cause you to get raped" not unlike "dousing yourself with fuel" will "cause you to catch on fire".
• Hanna wrote on 2013-03-23 11:59

  Quote from Kaeporo;1054527:

  The problem with reality is that bad things can happen to good people.
  
  Nobody should have to change their dress and appearance in order to potentially curtail any blame shifted to them following sexual assault. The problem is that rape is a rather taboo subject and most people simply do not know how to deal with it appropriately. I won't fault someone for cracking an offensive joke so long as they don't hold particularly malicious intent. Some people simply don't know how to react and humor is a sort of outlet for those people.
  
  However, we do live in a society which has essentially accepted that "dressing like a slut" will "cause you to get raped" not unlike "dousing yourself with fuel" will "cause you to catch on fire".

  
  
  My problem with rape jokes are the fact that it makes rape seem humorous and lightens the subject when it's a huge problem.
  
  
  ---
  On another note, you know what the most rage worthy argument is?
  "Women secretly like rape, I mean, who doesn't like sex! You and I both know they secretly want it"
  oh and
  "She led me on! She deserved it!"
• Ashikoki wrote on 2013-03-23 12:17

  Quote from Kaeporo;1054527:

  The problem with reality is that bad things can happen to good people.

  
  
  Pretty much this.
  
  While I do believe that we should all work very hard to strive towards a future in which we won't have to worry about being raped, we do not currently live in such a paradise. This isn't really just about rape, but about everything.
  
  Why do we lock our home doors? Our cars? Why do business practices have contracts? Because its just safer. Its a precaution. In a world where someone can screw you over, you just have to assume there is someone out there that is trying to.
  
  That said, we're not blaming victims. It is always the aggressor's fault. But that doesn't entirely mean it couldn't have been avoided. Far too often there are people who behave or act in a way that significantly increases the chance of getting screwed over by someone else.
  
  Here is a solid example.
  
  [video=youtube;HXIvOiG8hPU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXIvOiG8hPU[/video]
  
  The guy here is a TOTAL dick, and no one will EVER deny that. Yes he should be charged with domestic abuse. But lets just focus away from that for a moment. This girl stood up to a guy that could easily KILL her with very little effort, all for a playstation. Is the playstation worth so much money that she would hold her ground against an aggressive big guy like that? She even hit him, almost as if to provoke him. In front of the children?
  
  This woman needs to lose custody of her children. She made bad decisions. None of this had to happen.
• Hanna wrote on 2013-03-23 12:52

  Quote from Ashikoki;1054541:

  Pretty much this.
  
  While I do believe that we should all work very hard to strive towards a future in which we won't have to worry about being raped, we do not currently live in such a paradise. This isn't really just about rape, but about everything.
  
  Why do we lock our home doors? Our cars? Why do business practices have contracts? Because its just safer. Its a precaution. In a world where someone can screw you over, you just have to assume there is someone out there that is trying to.
  
  That said, we're not blaming victims. It is always the aggressor's fault. But that doesn't entirely mean it couldn't have been avoided. Far too often there are people who behave or act in a way that significantly increases the chance of getting screwed over by someone else.
  
  Here is a solid example.
  
  [video=youtube;HXIvOiG8hPU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXIvOiG8hPU[/video]
  
  The guy here is a TOTAL dick, and no one will EVER deny that. Yes he should be charged with domestic abuse. But lets just focus away from that for a moment. This girl stood up to a guy that could easily KILL her with very little effort, all for a playstation. Is the playstation worth so much money that she would hold her ground against an aggressive big guy like that? She even hit him, almost as if to provoke him. In front of the children?
  
  This woman needs to lose custody of her children. She made bad decisions. None of this had to happen.

  
  
  The problem with that assumption is you are taking all of this information from one video, this guy seems like an aggressive asshole in general and might hit her often. (maybe that's why the camera was there, for evidence?)
  
  Maybe she's standing up in front of her children to show them that you shouldn't sit back and just let someone control you.
  We also live in a world where you're told to "grow a backbone" if someone is harassing you.
  He told him to leave, implying it was her place.
  
  
  Is it right to make assumptions? No.
  Is it right to say this woman deserves to have her children taken away because of one video that doesn't really show anything but her unplugging a playstation and telling him to leave? No.
  
  She was backed into a corner after he started acting aggressive by kicking the TV because she unplugged it.
  Who knows, he could have punched her anyway, but she chose to give him the warning to fuck off when she felt threatened.
• Ashikoki wrote on 2013-03-23 13:11

  Quote from Hanna;1054549:

  The problem with that assumption is you are taking all of this information from one video, this guy seems like an aggressive asshole in general and might hit her often. (maybe that's why the camera was there, for evidence?)
  
  Maybe she's standing up in front of her children to show them that you shouldn't sit back and just let someone control you.
  We also live in a world where you're told to "grow a backbone" if someone is harassing you.
  He told him to leave, implying it was her place.
  
  
  Is it right to make assumptions? No.
  Is it right to say this woman deserves to have her children taken away because of one video that doesn't really show anything but her unplugging a playstation and telling him to leave? No.
  
  She was backed into a corner after he started acting aggressive by kicking the TV because she unplugged it.
  Who knows, he could have punched her anyway, but she chose to give him the warning to fuck off when she felt threatened.

  
  
  I disagree. If the playstation is legally hers, then she can deal with it through proper actions later. Teaching your children to stand up for yourself is a good thing, but this is not the correct place to do it. She could have been really hurt here. Worse things could have happened. She should have let it go, and if needed, contact authorities afterwards.
  
  We dont fight back when an armed man comes and robs you. Heck, you shouldn't even if you don't know if he's armed or not, unless you know you have superiority in a fight. Ever so especially when you have children. Bad decisions galore.
  
  Also its just supposed to be an example. Maybe the backstory is totally inaccurate but the general point stands. Victims often lead themselves in to that corner through their actions and choices. Read your contracts, lock your doors, don't get wasted at a club alone, and don't carry too much cash. We're all working to make the world a better place, but its not there right now so it would be incredibly stupid not to be wary of basic precautions everyone normally takes.
  
  Edit: Also I'm not saying the victims always did something wrong. Car accidents happen even if you're the safest driver in the world. But if you're doing your part to be a safe driver, your chances of an accident are much lower, right?
• Hanna wrote on 2013-03-23 13:27

  Quote from Ashikoki;1054553:

  I disagree. If the playstation is legally hers, then she can deal with it through proper actions later. Teaching your children to stand up for yourself is a good thing, but this is not the correct place to do it. She could have been really hurt here. Worse things could have happened. She should have let it go, and if needed, contact authorities afterwards.
  
  We dont fight back when an armed man comes and robs you. Heck, you shouldn't even if you don't know if he's armed or not, unless you know you have superiority in a fight. Ever so especially when you have children. Bad decisions galore.
  
  Also its just supposed to be an example. Maybe the backstory is totally inaccurate but the general point stands. Victims often lead themselves in to that corner through their actions and choices. Read your contracts, lock your doors, don't get wasted at a club alone, and don't carry too much cash. We're all working to make the world a better place, but its not there right now so it would be incredibly stupid not to be wary of basic precautions everyone normally takes.
  
  Edit: Also I'm not saying the victims always did something wrong. Car accidents happen even if you're the safest driver in the world. But if you're doing your part to be a safe driver, your chances of an accident are much lower, right?

  
  
  The reason I hate the idea that she could have protected herself by not acting out is because when you tell someone something over and over again and they don't listen, you feel like you have to step up and say is enough.
  
  I know this from experience, my ex-fiance has choked me because I took the sim card out of his phone because he was sexting someone and I paid for it.
  Not in front of him, by the way.
  He left his phone on our bed and I took it out, later he asked where his sim card was and I told him "I took it because you've been sexting some fucking bitch I don't know" He causally walked over and started choking me for around 20 seconds.
  
  One could say I shouldn't have been going through his texts, but when he starts coming home later than normal, and is always dodging simple questions like "Hey, where have you been" or won't even look you in the eye, of course you get suspicious, but I needed proof, I didn't go through all of his texts. Just strange numbers I didn't recognize, which there was only 2, one was a customer asking customery things, the other was some bitch named Tara he forgot to delete his texting history from the night before. Oops.
  
  He's also popped my finger out of place because I wouldn't order him pizza.
  
  I eventually left him after he slept with my sister, I had enough.
  
  Abusive relationships are not something that should be taken lightly and by saying "Well, she shouldn't have-" lightens the load of what was actually done
• Ashikoki wrote on 2013-03-23 14:00

  Quote from Hanna;1054556:

  Abusive relationships are not something that should be taken lightly and by saying "Well, she shouldn't have-" lightens the load of what was actually done

  
  
  I'm not taking it lightly and I'm not telling you that you should or shouldn't have done anything.
  
  Above was an example from a story I pretty much made up. And whether someone did everything they could possibly do wrong or right to increase or decrease her chance of abuse/rape, doesn't mean that the crime itself has less or more weight. Rape is rape. Abuse is abuse. They should be punished accordingly.
  
  I do think that people who simply try to shrug these things off and blame the victim, "well you probably shouldn't have done X, so its your fault!" are being incredibly insensitive and not understanding. But what they say doesn't completely lack merit. Rather, its a totally different topic in the first place.
  
  When we look at victims and assailants, we should actually split the case in two, and take a look at them individually.
  
  What did the assailant do? Rape. Rape is rape. Punish.
  What did the victim do wrong? X, Y, and Z. Lets make sure they know not to take these unnecessary risks again, and let everyone else know as well.
  
  Its so so so important that I let everyone know that I know bad things happen to people who did everything correct. Lets just say, statistics out of my ass, 99.9% of the time, victims could not have taken any realistically practical precautions earlier to prevent what happened to them. Then I want to know what the 0.1% could have done differently to avoid it. We're human, and humans are problem solvers. We sent the bad guy to jail, and we're always working to improve society so we have less bad guys. We should also work to find ways to help people protect themselves from becoming victims.
  
  Now I don't think it is appropriate for people to approach rape victims and start flaunting the "I told you so" and "you shouldn't have" bullshit, because that is extremely rude, unhelpful, unsupportive, etc. This kind of discussion is much better suited for case studies and future references.
  
  I said this earlier, and this really applies to everything you ever do in life and not just abuse or rape, but "In a world where someone can screw you over, you just have to assume there is someone out there that is trying to."
• Fabian wrote on 2013-03-23 14:08
  It's always the rapist's fault, never the victim's. Whoever thinks otherwise is a piece of shit. Unless it's a false accusation.
• Cynic wrote on 2013-03-23 14:36
  Sexism is the route of the problem here. And sadly, this also applies to rape against men to. (implying that men can't be raped because all men are supposed to be strong and manry while also implying that women are too weak to rape men. I've also seen plenty of people say men deserve it if they're not heterosexual and it was their male partner who raped them)
  
  The irony is that so many people claim we've moved far forward with sexism, and that we're approaching a point where men and women are equal (LOLOL), when in reality they're confusing "progress" with "shit is actually at an acceptable level".
  
  Sure, we have made progress towards eliminating sexism. We've gone from absolutely fucking disgusting and horrendous to just disgusting and horrendous. Progress =/= better. The west still has a long way to go before we can finally call ourselves "equal" in the sense that men and women are treated mostly the same way, in a positive sense. (since obviously there are certain differences that we will always have to account for)
  
  tl;dr; humans are sexist pieces of shit. Anybody who claims they aren't sexist but says it's a victims fault is indeed a sexist prick. So while it is important that people try and protect themselves and take all the necessary precautions to prevent rape, that does not, nor will it ever mean that rape is in any way the victim's fault. Rape is as much a victim's fault as a robbery is; victims don't choose to be raped, but a rapist chooses to rape.
• Hanna wrote on 2013-03-23 14:42

  Quote from Ashikoki;1054561:

  I'm not taking it lightly and I'm not telling you that you should or shouldn't have done anything.
  
  Above was an example from a story I pretty much made up. And whether someone did everything they could possibly do wrong or right to increase or decrease her chance of abuse/rape, doesn't mean that the crime itself has less or more weight. Rape is rape. Abuse is abuse. They should be punished accordingly.
  
  I do think that people who simply try to shrug these things off and blame the victim, "well you probably shouldn't have done X, so its your fault!" are being incredibly insensitive and not understanding. But what they say doesn't completely lack merit. Rather, its a totally different topic in the first place.
  
  When we look at victims and assailants, we should actually split the case in two, and take a look at them individually.
  
  What did the assailant do? Rape. Rape is rape. Punish.
  What did the victim do wrong? X, Y, and Z. Lets make sure they know not to take these unnecessary risks again, and let everyone else know as well.
  
  Its so so so important that I let everyone know that I know bad things happen to people who did everything correct. Lets just say, statistics out of my ass, 99.9% of the time, victims could not have taken any realistically practical precautions earlier to prevent what happened to them. Then I want to know what the 0.1% could have done differently to avoid it. We're human, and humans are problem solvers. We sent the bad guy to jail, and we're always working to improve society so we have less bad guys. We should also work to find ways to help people protect themselves from becoming victims.
  
  Now I don't think it is appropriate for people to approach rape victims and start flaunting the "I told you so" and "you shouldn't have" bullshit, because that is extremely rude, unhelpful, unsupportive, etc. This kind of discussion is much better suited for case studies and future references.
  
  I said this earlier, and this really applies to everything you ever do in life and not just abuse or rape, but "In a world where someone can screw you over, you just have to assume there is someone out there that is trying to."

  
  
  Understood
• Taycat wrote on 2013-03-23 20:12

  Quote from Fabian;1054566:

  It's always the rapist's fault, never the victim's. Whoever thinks otherwise is a piece of shit. Unless it's a false accusation.

  
  
  It's the third sentence that got me. Why do women think they can get away with accusing another person of rape? Are they selfish enough to ruin another person's life? Or are they stupid enough to make everyone believe them? In the end, all they're doing is making it harder for those that were actually raped to get any help.
• Hanna wrote on 2013-03-23 23:56

  Quote from Mythical Detective Loki X;1054689:

  It's the third sentence that got me. Why do women think they can get away with accusing another person of rape? Are they selfish enough to ruin another person's life? Or are they stupid enough to make everyone believe them? In the end, all they're doing is making it harder for those that were actually raped to get any help.

  
  Studies show that false rape accusations only make up around 8% of them, which isn't huge because it's right around the number of most false crime report anyway but if I find out anyone around me tries to ruin someone's life by falsely reporting rape, I will personally beat the snot out of them.
  
  Rape is the type of crime, where unless the assailant has a teeny weeny pencil peeny it leaves obvious physical scars that do not visibly go away for a very long time. Tearing is inevitable with forced sex.
• Chiyuri wrote on 2013-03-24 00:07

  Quote from Mythical Detective Loki X;1054689:

  It's the third sentence that got me. Why do women think they can get away with accusing another person of rape? Are they selfish enough to ruin another person's life? Or are they stupid enough to make everyone believe them? In the end, all they're doing is making it harder for those that were actually raped to get any help.

  
  
  Simple. Because in the end, idiots exist within man and woman.. While there are some that rape which heavily damage someone's life, there are some who lie, which heavily damage someone's life.
  Idiots are everywhere, any sex, any ethny, any religion, any race or specify. Idiocy is like a godly being in itself, it's omnipotent and omnipresent. There are no limit to the power of one's idiocy..