[Mabinogi-KR] Magic Fighters Rejoice! Merlin's Suilien Knuckles!

• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-05-17 19:47
  No charges you say? Holy fucking flying pigs batman! Finally, my dream of being a Rune Knight is even closer than it was when I started randomly striking lightning down upon my foes with my Cabadblog!
• Azareel wrote on 2013-05-17 19:56

  Quote from Zekkii;1090686:

  Isn't that what the auxiliary slot is for?

  
  
  Theoretically, yes. Realistically, having to swap between weapons takes up precious time for seamless combos. In recovery animations for both magic and fighter (as well as most skills) you can use another skill far earlier than you can swap weapons. Then you have additional time wasted in the actual swapping of the weapon.
• ironwoman wrote on 2013-05-18 00:04

  Quote from Azareel;1090675:

  No offense, but I hope you're kidding here. The fact that it combines knuckles with a sort-of hermit staff means it can do both magic and fighter combos. At the very least, you can alternate between the skillsets without pause, which is great given that both skillsets' combos are generally short-lived.
  
  [SPOILER="Spoiler"]Fighter combos normally end with the enemy mildly distanced from the player. This is a good setup for magic (also, hello tumble).
  Magic combos usually end (or persist) with the target stunned/frozen/whatever. This is a good opportunity to close in with melee attacks, especially fighter. With Instant Casting and Mobile Casting, magic can keep up a bit more with Fighter's pace/playstyle than before.
  
  Plus you're not really considering how Fighter's main weakness is aoe, but magic is heavily aoe focused. Additionally, magic fails at quick damage and is generally inferior in terms of 1v1. The skillsets cover each others' primary weaknessess.[/SPOILER]

  
  
  The most useful one I can think of is shockwave. It makes up for nerfed windmill range of knuckles. Remember that instant casting has cooldown time, so that can't apply well to fighter's quick paced style. Given that mobile casting is on, I could see someone insta fireballing and then finishing off with fighter, but other than that, pretty much other skills are obsolete (especially IS and Hailstorm). Plus, the stamina drain of mobile casting makes it more inconvenient to use other skills. Not that you can't use magic with fighter, it just would be not as effective, and in general, you'd still be way better off using champion knuckles and a trinity staff.
  
  Still a useful weapon, but clearly not the strongest one.
• Slayerj wrote on 2013-05-18 01:41
  [SPOILER="Spoiler"]

  Quote from Kaeporo;1090291:

  I don't know if Magic Weapon Mastery applies to the Merlin Suilien Knuckles but the intermediate magic casting bonus apparently doesn't apply regardless past 750 intelligence.
  
  Edit(1):
  
  In addition, it seems that Mana Shield now factors in defense/protection from shields/shield mastery.

  
  
  
  Talking with a KR player on utube in her latest vid and she told me that the way magic weapon mastery works is that the, for the INT magic casting speed up portion of the skill, it does not factor in at all if your int already gives you the same or higher %. Though this is only what she heard and not 100% confirmed. But...yeah...wonderful >.>;
  
  I think this is the first skill to loose part of what it does that is beneficial to what a stat does.
  
  Long story short, it's bolt mastery 2.[/SPOILER]
  ^^^ Warning, me being stupid as fuck. >.> It's so hard to understand her at times, I'm sorry for letting ma jimmies be rustled. :l
  
  
  

  I heard Magic weapon mastery's 15% speed up and follow to int about casting speed was not overlap.Phantom Chorus is very horrible performance.
  
  On the Phantom Chorus Circle, mana consume is zero (or mana is recovered) at using Hail Storm !

  
  I'd also like to point out that her alch dmg hasn't dropped at all in this current vid so it's safe to say that even without max dmg enchants (which I don't think she was ever using), alch dmg is still solid after this update.
  
  I got more info. Stuff we already knew but hearing it from a strong KR player and not just data (Not sure if any testers went over it 100% or anything, sorry if I missed that.) just feels better.
• Perfectio wrote on 2013-05-18 03:34
  Not worth it. The magic side of the equation loses so much in damage, while the fighter side loses 20% crit damage and some max. And more importantly, whike there is some synergy with fighter and some magic skills (shockwave, maybe Thunder) the two skillsets play at completely different speeds. Especially when instacast isn't up. There are some nifty combos there but Magic x Gunner and Fighter x Gunner are both much better combos.
• Kenero wrote on 2013-05-18 03:43

  Quote from Perfectio;1090949:

  Not worth it. The magic side of the equation loses so much in damage, while the fighter side loses 20% crit damage and some max. And more importantly, whike there is some synergy with fighter and some magic skills (shockwave, maybe Thunder) the two skillsets play at completely different speeds. Especially when instacast isn't up. There are some nifty combos there but Magic x Gunner and Fighter x Gunner are both much better combos.

  
  
  It's not so bad. The problem lies in that in order to make use of 3 skillsets, you need to be heavily invested in AP.
  
  One of the interesting combos I came across was:
  
  
  Fireball (with the knuckles) -instant cast- - > Bullet Storm - > Bullet Rush - > Fighter Combos to finish off the survivors.
  
  Other interesting combos is:
  
  (Get hit by the enemy) - > Shockwave - > Fighter Combo - > Switch to lance -> Smash
  
  Instant Cast Thunder - > Crash Shot - > Both Thunder and Crash Shot Lands - > Fighter finish
  
  
  A korean player who has access to these knuckles wrote that these knuckles shouldn't be used as a main weapon in higher difficulties, but rather as an aux weapon... in other words:
  
  You have your main skillset you mostly use, and these Merlin's knuckle makes super backup weapons. So it would be like:
  
  
  Main: Lance
  Aux: Merlin Knuckle
  
  Main: Guns
  Aux: Merlin Knuckles
  
  Main: Range
  Aux: Merlin Knuckles
  
  
  His conclusion was that the Merlin Knuckles are great aux weapons to have, but far from the "ultimate" weapon. The unique ability it gives makes a great backup weapon that allows more flexibility in the main skillset if used properly.
  
  
  Also, technically you can open "four" skillsets since you can sing without instrument.
• ironwoman wrote on 2013-05-18 06:05
  Hence why I said "Still a useful weapon, but clearly not the strongest one."
  
  When I saw the special upgrades, I was already thinking that this is more for secondary weapon.
  
  It still can hit higher than magic. Remember that this knuckle still receives full elemental reforge potential, reason why it's so good as a secondary weapon. Honestly, this one might just be the best secondary weapon out there.
• ironwoman wrote on 2013-05-18 06:49
  IMPORTANT: There's been a mix-up.
  
  This is different from Sulien Magic Knuckles. Notice that this is "Merlin's"
  
  That being said, 5 upgrades, and without upgrades, it adds up to 31 max added, AND Magic attack +4 and casting speed +6
  
  It's also special upgradeable, but it's still nerfed in R-upgrade
  
  Screenshot of special upgraded Merlin's knuckles
  
  Artisan upgrade in the screenshot is this: MP 21 increase, INT 61 increase, WILL 51 increase, HP 20 increase, Luck 40 decrease
  
  So yes, this is an upgrade to regular Sulien knuckles with one upgrade, but still can't reach the highest magic nor fighter damage, thus only good as aux weapon.
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-05-18 09:17
  I can't say I think it's good as an auxiliary weapon either. It isn't that difficult to switch out your weapon for instant cast, and your magic damage would be pathetic with the knuckles. There also doesn't seem to be any reason to use inferior and overly expensive knuckles for fighter either, but that's not the main issue. Trying to use magic AoE with fighter will only result in aggro you can't control, and fighting primarily based on single target would be a waste of time if you're using magic over fighter which is much better suited. It doesn't matter which slot you put it in, it's still worse than a competent weapon in the auxiliary slot.
  
  As much as I'd love to have 500 skills available to me at all times, it's not always a great idea. Keep it simple stupid. As always I'll wait for NA release for final conclusions and number crunching.
• M wrote on 2013-05-18 14:46
  I've never enjoyed either skillset enough to ever use them together before, I doubt I will with this weapon either. After sitting back and thinking about it and watching the debates, it sounds like a gimmick weapon. If it was something like guns and puppetry or archery and guns/puppetry I could see it being useful for mass AOE. Even puppetry/fighter would have been better since fighter is good for only 1v1 and puppetry is really only for AOE. Magic has 1v1 skills already, it doesn't need fighter.
  
  Heck I'd even rather have alchemy+range/gun/puppet then this lol
• Slayerj wrote on 2013-05-18 17:19
  I like how no one is happy about what this thing can due to how less powerful it is. If it was any stronger you'd all be shouting OP and hating it still. :-/
• M wrote on 2013-05-18 17:24
  I'm just not a fan of the combination choice. That's my opinion, even if it was another combination choice I'd still expect it to be equally nerfed.
  
  My opinion is I don't find it useful for my skillset and uses, the idea is cool and the stats/effectiveness are about what should be expected for sure.
• ironwoman wrote on 2013-05-18 17:53

  Quote from Slayerj;1091302:

  I like how no one is happy about what this thing can due to how less powerful it is. If it was any stronger you'd all be shouting OP and hating it still. :-/

  
  
  Well, when the post first got posted without info on upgrades, people seemed to be drooling over it as if it were the most OP item out there.
  
  I'm pretty indifferent, I just think it's a bit overrated.
• Elleanior wrote on 2013-05-18 18:40

  Quote from Slayerj;1091302:

  I like how no one is happy about what this thing can due to how less powerful it is. If it was any stronger you'd all be shouting OP and hating it still. :-/

  
  
  I love it, I just haven't bothered to post here yet.
  
  I don't care if it doesn't have the dmg capabilities, it's not meant for that. That's part of the balancing. It's meant for combos, not attack strength.
• Kendoza wrote on 2013-05-19 01:12

  Quote from Slayerj;1091302:

  I like how no one is happy about what this thing can due to how less powerful it is. If it was any stronger you'd all be shouting OP and hating it still. :-/

  
  
  The ones who like it are the quiet ones. They don't need to say anything because they are perfectly content with it.
  
  I'm looking forward to it. :thumb: