End Game

• Tropa wrote on 2013-09-04 02:36

  Quote from Aubog007;1143958:

  Lance charge can do that too, boss round as well, not exactly "one hit" (support shot) but pretty much the same

  
  
  Oh yeah, forgot how broken mounted Lance charge can be.
• Exkalamity wrote on 2013-09-04 02:39

  Quote from Tropa;1143961:

  Oh yeah, forgot how broken mounted Lance charge can be.

  
  
  Mounted Lance Charge has the same multiplier as a giant's smash at max distance so I don't see how broken it is.
• Milk wrote on 2013-09-04 02:42

  Quote from SUNFLARE;1143549:

  How good is Archery come zero?

  
  
  There should be any difference, though if you are a person who focuses on archery and building DEx you will have a lot more defense piercing that other classes.
• radionoise wrote on 2013-09-04 02:55

  Quote from Exkalamity;1143963:

  Mounted Lance Charge has the same multiplier as a giant's smash at max distance so I don't see how broken it is.

  
  
  You can get the following reforges for mounted lance charge:
  Lance Charge Damage.
  Mounted Lance Charge Max Distance.
  Elemental Lv 6 or higher.
  
  You can get the following reforges for smash:
  Elemental lv 6 or higher.
  
  In other words, reforge hard enough and mounted lance charge will be stronger than smash.
  
  P.S. Lance Charge (not mounted) Max Distance actually lowers Lance Charge damage, so I did not list it and I feel sorry for anyone who has that reforge and thinks it's a good thing.
• Exkalamity wrote on 2013-09-04 02:58

  Quote from radionoise;1143970:

  You can get the following reforges for mounted lance charge:
  Lance Charge Damage.
  Mounted Lance Charge Max Distance.
  Elemental Lv 6 or higher.
  
  You can get the following reforges for smash:
  Elemental lv 6 or higher.
  
  In other words, reforge hard enough and mounted lance charge will be stronger than smash.
  
  P.S. Lance Charge (not mounted) Max Distance actually lowers Lance Charge damage, so I did not list it and I feel sorry for anyone who has that reforge and thinks it's a good thing.

  
  
  I didn't consider reforges so I guess that makes sense. On another note, how the hell does Lance Charge (non mounted) Max Distance lower overall damage? That seems counter intuitive, or is that based off of experience?
• radionoise wrote on 2013-09-04 02:59

  Quote from Exkalamity;1143972:

  I didn't consider reforges so I guess that makes sense. On another note, how the hell does Lance Charge (non mounted) Max Distance lower overall damage? That seems counter intuitive, or is that based off of experience?

  
  
  It "stretches" the lance charge, rather than adding distance. This results in you dealing damage of being "closer" even though you're relatively further away.
  
  Not sure if I can explain it properly, but it's similar to effective range and aim speed on bows.
• Blassreiter wrote on 2013-09-04 03:04

  Quote from radionoise;1143973:

  It "stretches" the lance charge, rather than adding distance. This results in you dealing damage of being "closer" even though you're relatively further away.
  
  Not sure if I can explain it properly, but it's similar to effective range and aim speed on bows.

  
  
  [S]Or using Smash with a non-Two Handed weapon causing Smash to lose damage because you're not using the Two Handed weapon bonus.[/S]
• Exkalamity wrote on 2013-09-04 03:27

  Quote from radionoise;1143973:

  It "stretches" the lance charge, rather than adding distance. This results in you dealing damage of being "closer" even though you're relatively further away.
  
  Not sure if I can explain it properly, but it's similar to effective range and aim speed on bows.

  
  
  No it totally makes sense. And it's lame as hell. So if I understand correctly, Aim Speed is buffed essentially with the effective range reforge on bows, where as for damage and lance charge, it's a nerf in the sense that targets at the same distance get less damage then those without the reforge.
• Sebbies wrote on 2013-09-04 03:53

  Quote from radionoise;1143973:

  It "stretches" the lance charge, rather than adding distance. This results in you dealing damage of being "closer" even though you're relatively further away.
  
  Not sure if I can explain it properly, but it's similar to effective range and aim speed on bows.

  
  

  Quote from Exkalamity;1143985:

  No it totally makes sense. And it's lame as hell. So if I understand correctly, Aim Speed is buffed essentially with the effective range reforge on bows, where as for damage and lance charge, it's a nerf in the sense that targets at the same distance get less damage then those without the reforge.

  
  
  So does that mean the lance charge reforge would only be beneficial whenever you charge from a distance greater than the unreforged max distance?
• Exkalamity wrote on 2013-09-04 04:34

  Quote from Sebbies;1143992:

  So does that mean the lance charge reforge would only be beneficial whenever you charge from a distance greater than the unreforged max distance?

  
  
  You would not receive any benefits from damage, only distance. You would do the same damage at the max distance of either lance charge, however you would have to travel further to achieve that max distance on reforged Lance Charge than without reforge.
• Sebbies wrote on 2013-09-04 04:37

  Quote from Exkalamity;1144004:

  You would not receive any benefits from damage, only distance. You would do the same damage at the max distance of either lance charge, however you would have to travel further to achieve that max distance on reforged Lance Charge than without reforge.

  
  
  I see, thanks.
  
  Gotta say, that's incredibly stupid.
• radionoise wrote on 2013-09-04 04:47

  Quote from Sebbies;1144006:

  I see, thanks.
  
  Gotta say, that's incredibly stupid.

  
  
  On the bright side, the mounted version of it does increase damage. The distance improvement is just very small.
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-09-04 06:45
  Just to highlight a few of the changes I'm interested in (not necessarily the only things of note):
  
  (Blaze)
  I'd say Crisis + Ice Spear + Blaze would be one of the most effective ways to wipe mobs in the future, although it's not practical for everything since it takes a fair amount of execution time, requires Control Bars + Ice Savage Wand, and can sometimes fail due to the slightest disposition or miscoordination. I'm a bit fuzzy on the details of change other than 'it has a lot more damage potential'.
  
  (Magic Weapon Mastery: Bolts)
  This is really broken up in to two sections, chaincasting firebolt and fusion. Starting with chaincasting firebolt, people will be able to do considerable and reliable single target mid-ranged DPS. This will give mages an opportunity to be a single-target powerhouse, although it very costly in both mana and wand durability and promises to provide a cetain amount of overspecialization for maximum optimization. I see fusion as more of an alternative for those who may just want to fire off some fair damage bolts mid combat between or after other larger spells. Fusion should work well with a hermit staff for cheap damage, but it's hardly threatening fighters and mag spammers in terms of DPS.
  
  (Magic Weapon Mastery: Intermediate Magics + Speed Casting Reforge)
  With these two combined changes, intermediate magics should feel about 2/3 as long to cast. It should be obvious this is a fair buff, although this must be earned and not given. The Mastery is fairly easy, but the reforge comes at a few costs:
  
  [spoiler=Associated Costs]
  1. The cost of reforges (fairly obvious one)
  
  2. The cost of potential damage; by going for the speed reforge you are choosing not to go for the magic damage reforge which is estimated at +10~20% damage for most players/spells. Of course this is talking in terms of pure damage, your DPS is likely going to increase from speed upgrades. Neither choice is indefinitely better, I'd say they're both very strong contenders.
  
  3. The cost of mana; by losing out on damage you will most likely need to cast more charges and use slightly more mana. Not a huge deal but it's something to keep in mind when choosing.[/spoiler]
  
  (Snap Cast + Meteor Strike)
  Competent buff/burst damage, never bad to have.
  
  (Lance Piercing [and bows/2H swords to a lesser extent])
  This will easily make lancers godly, it's obvious why Koreans want them nerfed now. The more I think about, the more I feel this was a totally unnecessary change. If any change was required due to the protection formula changes, then this has been a gross overcompensation. For mobs under 50%, which is the vast majority, lancers will get a damage buff even if piercing were equal but then multiply that by 2.5. For mobs that have over 50% protection you will still be doing rather obscene damage so it's hardly of any concern. Just throw out any melee weapon that isn't a lance right now, because glitchy minimum distance requirements will be no excuse for not using lances anymore. Giants can also use lances with shields, for added utility/defense.
  
  (Diva)
  Look ma, no hands!
  
  (Vate)
  I've never been too much into alchemy so I'll keep this short. A few skills will do some decent damage but the only one that really stands out to me is flameburst. Combined with crisis and decent set, you could push out some hefty DPS. As for the utility aspect of alchemy I expect it will be much improved, particularly due to the addition of the guard shield. Unfortunately I can only see people using the guard shield with lances (giants), savage wands/phoenix fire wand (mages), and other cylinders (alchemists).
  
  
  I expect all of these to have their place in our meta endgame and I feel confident saying it will be nearly as balanced as it ever was, if not the most balanced it ever was amongst classes. It's just a shame that mobs go down so easily.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-04 06:58

  Quote from Zekkii;1144033:

  Stuff

  
  
  Few things first:
  
  -It's been a while since i've seen someone use a lance (AKA run with sebbies) so i can't really comment except for when I was using one myself. The damage wasn't too great even with elemental 6, but that in part could have been due to my bad stats at the time (I haven't meleed for quite a while, didn't have oblivion avenger accs, etc). On paper I can see how lances get a giant buff but whether or not that will actually happen to anybody but the endgame of the endgame remains to be seen.
  
  Minimum distance has never been an issue with lances, my internet moves about as fast as syrian politics and you just need to use windmill and lance counter liberally.
  
  In regards to magic:
  
  I don't think that you gave CC firebolt a fair go. It's pretty much lasers of destroi come update and probably the best single-target dps skill apart from endgame elf mag that never misses (inb4 giants). It's not even comparable to fusion bolt in my opinion and since you told me that you can't recharge ice-fire fusion once you fire off the first bolt and need to use the other 4 crappy bolts, it's kinda what fusion bolt has always been - a filler instead of switching to another skillset.
  
  Adv magics, especially IS (in the right situations) will once again become usable. That's great. Although, to get the most out of it you do need that heavy reforge investment.
  
  Snap cast makes fireball a usable skill. Lol.
  
  Diva could really be called the lazy-man's update. It means there's absolutely no excuse to have some kind of buff up - however, there isn't and won't ever be a replacement for actual bards with actual instruments. The strength of it is if you suffer from heavy weapon switching lag - it takes me in excess of 10 seconds at peak traffic to take a weapon out of my hands - so you can quickly rebuff yourself when your instrument buff runs out. No replacement in party play and if someone overwrites my 40% overture with a sung enduring melody because they can't find the stamina potion hotkey on their keyboard, then i'm strangling them and/or kicking them. Perhaps not in that particular order.
  
  I agree with your sentiments on Alchemy but Akule shield flogs guard cylinder into the dust with magic.
  
  I do also feel that the game is getting more balanced in the sense that all skillsets have a role in endgame content and are able to do weaker content (current alchemy i'm looking at you), but the key word in that statement is that all skillsets have a role.
• Tally wrote on 2013-09-04 08:44

  Quote from Zekkii;1144033:

  
  (Magic Weapon Mastery: Bolts)
  This is really broken up in to two sections, chaincasting firebolt and fusion. Starting with chaincasting firebolt, people will be able to do considerable and reliable single target mid-ranged DPS. This will give mages an opportunity to be a single-target powerhouse, although it very costly in both mana and wand durability and promises to provide a cetain amount of overspecialization for maximum optimization. I see fusion as more of an alternative for those who may just want to fire off some fair damage bolts mid combat between or after other larger spells. Fusion should work well with a hermit staff for cheap damage, but it's hardly threatening fighters and mag spammers in terms of DPS.

  
  
  A guildie of mine swears by fusion bolt. And everytime I run with him, I can see why. He decimates everything, and hardly needs that much setup time. In the time it takes everyone to catch up, and get ready, he's already fully charged with ice-fire. And he makes a good point when he explains it to me about why fusion bolts are better. You're not taking very much of a time-hit to charge a single fusion bolt, but you're still gaining the fusion bolt bonus for it.
  
  Granted, though, you could just roll with a CC fire wand, but you're losing the versatility that a speedcast wand would provide otherwise. And as a bonus, staves will be able to do this too.