The skillsets are more balanced than they've ever been in Mabi.

• Syliara wrote on 2013-12-30 00:57

  Quote from cheese758;1182997:

  Range still sux.
  
  Should add:
  +Access to Bhafel Hunter and Huntress (which make range suck a little less but good luck getting one =,=)

  
  
  I'm not sure if your trolling or not. Seriously this post is completely an utterly incorrect.
• Kazusa Touma wrote on 2013-12-30 00:59

  Quote from Nui;1182974:

  While you may aim faster at point blank, theres no point if ur already point blank. I'd rather have a 11.1% damage increase than being able to fire off a crash shot 1 second earlier, because that one second normally wont make a difference at all. There are situations where effective range can be nice to have, but in normal shadow mission content its really not something thats a big deal.

  
  
  i still don't see a point to having 11.1% more damage when you'd be one-shotting everything with an ele 6 to begin with.. doesn't seem to make you any faster at all.. all that extra dmg is just to show off pretty much, and doesn't actually do anything. and of course there's a point if it helps me aim faster at point blank, i'd get my crash shots fired .5 to 1 seconds faster
  
  i'd pretty much have all the dmg i'd need with an ele 6 bow for any shadow mission, assuming I had basically capped all dex.. why would I need an extra 11.1% damage on easy kills... i'd much rather my bow be useful for harder/tankier content rather than stuff that i can already easily deal with
  
  effective range is really good for field bossing or black/white dragon, and lord missions as well, and i'm sure it'd be useful in future updates too. one ele 6 is plenty already.
• Syliara wrote on 2013-12-30 01:06

  Quote from Kazusa Touma;1182999:

  i still don't see a point to having 11.1% more damage when you'd be one-shotting everything with an ele 6 to begin with.. doesn't seem to make you any faster at all.. all that extra dmg is just to show off pretty much, and doesn't actually do anything. and of course there's a point if it helps me aim faster at point blank, i'd get my crash shots fired .5 to 1 seconds faster
  
  i'd pretty much have all the dmg i'd need with an ele 6 bow for any shadow mission, assuming I had basically capped all dex.. why would I need an extra 11.1% damage... i'd much rather my bow be useful for harder/tankier content rather than stuff that i can already easily deal with
  
  effective range is really good for field bossing or black/white dragon, and lord missions as well, and i'm sure it'd be useful in future updates too. one ele 6 is plenty already.

  
  
  Because there are some spawns you wont one shot without a crit, that extra 11.1% dmg is going to help you kill it with the next hit. Not to mention there are things in the game that will require more than one mag and such like in NPC.
  
  I honestly can't see you non crit 1 shotting shadow wiz elite spawns (or at least everything besides grumbils), so more damage can only help. This harder content you keep talking about is basically future content, but the future content really only has a few elemental immune mobs (or at least I'm assuming your bringing up the elemental immunities again) so its not going to make stacking elementals obsolete.
  
  Field bossing and the white/black dragons was the situations where it would be more useful that I was talking about.
• cheese758 wrote on 2013-12-30 01:09

  Quote from Nui;1182998:

  I'm not sure if your trolling or not. Seriously this post is completely an utterly incorrect.

  
  
  100% serious. 100% correct.
  
  There's no way in hell an archer with maxed stats can out damage a maxed out warrior without reforges in high level missions.
• Kazusa Touma wrote on 2013-12-30 01:13

  Quote from Nui;1183002:

  Because there are some spawns you wont one shot without a crit, that extra 11.1% dmg is going to help you kill it with the next hit. Not to mention there are things in the game that will require more than one mag and such like in NPC.
  
  I honestly can't see you non crit 1 shotting shadow wiz elite spawns (or at least everything besides grumbils), so more damage can only help. This harder content you keep talking about is basically future content, but the future content really only has a few elemental immune mobs (or at least I'm assuming your bringing up the elemental immunities again) so its not going to make stacking elementals obsolete.
  
  Field bossing and the white/black dragons was the situations where it would be more useful that I was talking about.

  
  
  sw elite isn't worth grinding because you need passes for that; i don't care if i take a little longer to do a daily because i'm only going to run it once a day. if you're grinding anything, it would be swhm, and those mobs are easy enough.
  
  the only point where your 11% would make a difference is if it takes you from two-shotting to one-shotting or three-shotting to two shotting, which it won't most of the time, and a crit would kill them anyway
  
  and future content is not "just a few" elemental immune mobs, if you looked at the list, the majority of the monsters in future content are ele immune.
  
  effective range is useful just about everywhere, whereas eles, after a certain point, won't matter that much because it's only the easy stuff that's affected by them.
  
  the only exception is MA tourney, but other than that, that's about it
• Syliara wrote on 2013-12-30 01:16

  Quote from cheese758;1183003:

  100% serious. 100% correct.
  
  There's no way in hell an archer with maxed stats can out damage a maxed out warrior without reforges in high level missions.

  
  
  Are you trying to compare a warrior without reforges to a ranger without reforges, a ranger with reforges to a warrior without reforges, or a ranger without reforges to a warrior with reforges?
  
  I can out damage almost any warrior with my range (albeit I have alot of reforges) but range is by no means weak. 30k crash shot fragments (potential 160k+ on the initial target with 3rd hit), 30k magnums (without the reforge), 5k each hit on arrow revolver, and 15k support bowmills (10k non support). By no means is range weak. Reforge and gear heavy? yes. But weak with those? No.
  
  @Kazusa
  
  I was only giving an example of what you probably wont be one shotting non crit. Of course its situational, and alot of stuff you can one shot non crit but damage stacking isnt worthless yet. In npc later rounds you probably will never be able to one shot them with one crash shot (their hp is just too high). Moving past this tho, iirc the ele immune mobs arent plentiful in the abyss dungeons, would need confirmation on it but its not as many as you might think.
• ironwoman wrote on 2013-12-30 01:36

  Quote from cheese758;1183003:

  100% serious. 100% correct.
  
  There's no way in hell an archer with maxed stats can out damage a maxed out warrior without reforges in high level missions.

  
  
  Nope.
  
  Granted, lance charge will do more damage than magnum, but what's the use if it has 10 sec cooldown?
  
  In fact, maxed out elf archer with a bhafel (disregarding reforges) will do about the same as a Giant with SP bone breaker (without reforges again). This is including factors like thames and bohemian buff. Only thing that would make smash do more than magnum is piercing level right now, but then magnum you can spam much more.
• Froglord of DESTINY!!! wrote on 2013-12-30 01:54
  [SIZE="4"]True balance[/SIZE]
  
  Is when everything has a chance to compete against something else in a MMO, or any game.
  
  NPC's, or enemies have the same privileges as the player both statistically and skillfully.
  
  There are no overpowered stat enhancers like "elemental reforges" or multipliers which double your output
  
  Skills varry from weak-fast, to strong-slow. There shouldn't be skills like gunner or figher where they're fast, but they out-perform most other skills just because.
  
  There is no clean-sweeping, if you've played maplestory, or any game that involves ant-like enemies like dynasty warriors that swarm by the thousands as cannon fodder for experience you'd know. That's not balanced, that's pre-arcade bullshit that game companies threw out the window in the 90's but readapted it most recently because of laziness.
  
  Balance is the "Hey if I'm not carefull, this thing can totally screw me over." mentality, it forces you to use your brain rather than hold down your ctrl key to use mini-gun skills that deal millions of damage on cannon fodder enemies or bosses with quadrillions of hp.
  
  Balance isn't buffing another skill/stat just because something else that's new is overpowered, in fact, nerfing the previously new skillset to average standards would be more balanced than buffing everything else to be on par.
  
  
  Nothing is balanced on mabi, enemies have weak ai's, no growth, and reforges ruin everything.
• Syliara wrote on 2013-12-30 02:02

  Quote from Froglord of DESTINY!!!;1183016:

  [SIZE="4"]True balance[/SIZE]
  
  Is when everything has a chance to compete against something else in a MMO, or any game.
  
  NPC's, or enemies have the same privileges as the player both statistically and skillfully.
  
  There are no overpowered stat enhancers like "elemental reforges" or multipliers which double your output
  
  Skills varry from weak-fast, to strong-slow. There shouldn't be skills like gunner or figher where they're fast, but they out-perform most other skills just because.
  
  There is no clean-sweeping, if you've played maplestory, or any game that involves ant-like enemies like dynasty warriors that swarm by the thousands as cannon fodder for experience you'd know. That's not balanced, that's pre-arcade bullshit that game companies threw out the window in the 90's but readapted it most recently because of laziness.
  
  Balance is the "Hey if I'm not carefull, this thing can totally screw me over." mentality, it forces you to use your brain rather than hold down your ctrl key to use mini-gun skills that deal millions of damage on cannon fodder enemies or bosses with quadrillions of hp.
  
  Balance isn't buffing another skill/stat just because something else that's new is overpowered, in fact, nerfing the previously new skillset to average standards would be more balanced than buffing everything else to be on par.
  
  
  Nothing is balanced on mabi, enemies have weak ai's, no growth, and reforges ruin everything.

  
  
  Title of the thread only has skillsets balance in it not the entire game, not only that but it says its more balanced than it ever has been, not that it is in fact balanced. You are missinterpreting the point behind the thread.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2013-12-30 02:37
  Gunner is just... Atrocious in elite missions and NPC.
  
  

  Quote from Nui;1182998:

  I'm not sure if your trolling or not. Seriously this post is completely an utterly incorrect.

  
  
  I actually hate range very much as well to the point of calling it trash.
  I guess when it's reforged it's good.
• Kazusa Touma wrote on 2013-12-30 03:38

  Quote from Nui;1183007:

  @Kazusa
  
  I was only giving an example of what you probably wont be one shotting non crit. Of course its situational, and alot of stuff you can one shot non crit but damage stacking isnt worthless yet. In npc later rounds you probably will never be able to one shot them with one crash shot (their hp is just too high). Moving past this tho, iirc the ele immune mobs arent plentiful in the abyss dungeons, would need confirmation on it but its not as many as you might think.

  
  
  i'm well aware that you can't 1-shot npc in the later rounds, but that's about the only exception to that. that and the occasional elite taill mission you'll run during double rainbow as a daily. the usefulness of that extra 11% damage becomes extremely marginal when you already have so much base, i'd much rather replace the reforge slot with something that's basically useful everywhere and essentially gives you more versatility/options.
  
  with regards to future content, there's only going to be more and more ele immune mobs, not less than there is now.. the usefulness of having more ele over one lvl 6 can only decrease with time
• Silverkun wrote on 2013-12-30 03:42
  I like ranged but as I don't bother with reforges (because the reforge system is an extremely retarded pile of bullshit. I don't care if it pays for KR to have completely free rebirths weekly), it's generally no good in anything past Hard Mode missions, at least not with my mere 510+ dex and my Sniper title to add onto that. And of course, unless you branch off into other talents, you have no options for reliably handling multi aggro.
  
  I also dislike how magic basically now has one thing you can do to achieve reliable, high DPS (cc+4 Firebolt). Well, I guess it's better than having 0 things which is how it used to be, but really all of the other options have so many drawbacks that it's like they just don't give a shit about them. Sure, the other options are just fine in anything up to and including Elite difficulty missions, but after that, you mostly use cc+4 firebolt or you get the fuck out.
• cheese758 wrote on 2013-12-30 06:04

  Quote from Nui;1183007:

  Are you trying to compare a warrior without reforges to a ranger without reforges, a ranger with reforges to a warrior without reforges, or a ranger without reforges to a warrior with reforges?
  
  I can out damage almost any warrior with my range (albeit I have alot of reforges) but range is by no means weak. 30k crash shot fragments (potential 160k+ on the initial target with 3rd hit), 30k magnums (without the reforge), 5k each hit on arrow revolver, and 15k support bowmills (10k non support). By no means is range weak. Reforge and gear heavy? yes. But weak with those? No.
  
  @Kazusa
  
  I was only giving an example of what you probably wont be one shotting non crit. Of course its situational, and alot of stuff you can one shot non crit but damage stacking isnt worthless yet. In npc later rounds you probably will never be able to one shot them with one crash shot (their hp is just too high). Moving past this tho, iirc the ele immune mobs arent plentiful in the abyss dungeons, would need confirmation on it but its not as many as you might think.

  
  
  Warrior without reforges to archer without reforges.
  
  Its mathematically impossible to do a 30k magnum without reforges even with 1500 dex, the best non reforged equips in the game, and capped overture. I won't even ask for a screen shot because I know that's a lie. Crash shot initial without frag number reforge or range reforge isn't that great in most situations. With a 5 second cooldown, it's lagging behind the basic melee skills. Cooldowns aside, lance charge out classes it.
  
  Warriors with equal stats (assuming neither party has reforges) will always hit more in elites and lords with lances because enemy prot murders damage from anything without piercing. Strip off all those trinkets, walk into caverns with an end game warrior and compare your damage.
• Yuuki Asuna wrote on 2013-12-30 06:18

  Quote from cheese758;1183087:

  Warrior without reforges to archer without reforges.
  
  Its mathematically impossible to do a 30k magnum without reforges even with 1500 dex, the best non reforged equips in the game, and capped overture. I won't even ask for a screen shot because I know that's a lie. Crash shot initial without frag number reforge or range reforge isn't that great in most situations. With a 5 second cooldown, it's lagging behind the basic melee skills. Cooldowns aside, lance charge out classes it.
  
  Warriors with equal stats (assuming neither party has reforges) will always hit more in elites and lords with lances because enemy prot murders damage from anything without piercing. Strip off all those trinkets, walk into caverns with an end game warrior and compare your damage.

  
  
  

  [Image: http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/44425549.jpg]

  
  
  Combo Card + Overture + Weapon Power Potion easily achieves this
• k1nsoo wrote on 2013-12-30 06:19

  Quote from cheese758;1183087:

  Warrior without reforges to archer without reforges.
  
  Its mathematically impossible to do a 30k magnum without reforges even with 1500 dex, the best non reforged equips in the game, and capped overture. I won't even ask for a screen shot because I know that's a lie. Crash shot initial without frag number reforge or range reforge isn't that great in most situations. With a 5 second cooldown, it's lagging behind the basic melee skills. Cooldowns aside, lance charge out classes it.
  
  Warriors with equal stats (assuming neither party has reforges) will always hit more in elites and lords with lances because enemy prot murders damage from anything without piercing. Strip off all those trinkets, walk into caverns with an end game warrior and compare your damage.

  
  
  I agree lancers can out-damage archers with its heavenly piercing but that doesn't mean archers have less dps in general. Damage-wise, yes, windmill deals more--but remember, if you can't insta-kill with windmill or lance charge, you know that you are going to DISPERSE all the mobs. This leads to heavy loss of dps if you don't have an ice dragon or puppeteers to bring them back together. Oh wait, ice dragons don't work on caverns!
  
  The reason why crashshot is considered "OP' is not just the damage--it is extremely useful in terms of partyplaying. It doesn't scatter all the mobs like lance charge/windmill and it does more AoE damage than windmill (even without reforges).