Let's Talk: Lullaby, easy mob control with just a click of a button.

• Syliara wrote on 2014-04-29 02:29

  Quote from Eiryie;1217557:

  Eiry has been around since G3, but often deleted her characters after ~1 year since she was dissatisfied with them. Then Eiry quit mabi in G10 and came back in G16.
  
  It's true the game has become much easier, but the requirements to hit end-game have also become much higher.
  
  Take a look at all the gold sinks. Special upgrades, reforges, rare and hard-to-get armor and weapons.
  
  Take a look at where the most gold is made. Elite missions, Martial Arts Tourney, etc.
  
  A new player will gain AP very quickly. Eiry has experienced this first-hand.
  The things that new player is required to do also increase dramatically over the first 1000 levels.
  
  Eiry is only total level 600 and already preparing to make her Demonic control bars. Granted, she won't start on that for another rebirth or two but think back to, say, G9 when the thing most people were worried about was whether or not Nerys would fail the repair on their Goddess Obsidian Daggers.
  
  It's impossible to consider the game now as it was back then - Sure, things have gotten easier. But the things newbies are required to do have also gotten more complicated and much more expensive.
  
  
  
  If a puppet loading a skill after having used Crisis gets hit, the loaded skill will cancel. 100% of the time.
  
  Eiry will have to try that stacky thing. o ωo;

  
  
  New players arent required to do anything, its what they want to do. They can take their time and work for their gear or they can complain to nexon/devcat to give them op stuff so they can clear content that was meant to be later game before they even get past 1k. New players dont need to be able to stomp all content in the first 1k levels, they can take their time and work for gear like a lot of people did back in the old days. You dont need to hit end game right off the bat, you can enjoy the game by playing it how it was intended, to be a very long and rewarding journey to the end, not to get through a month and already be able to stomp elites without an issue.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-04-29 02:39

  Quote from Nui;1217555:

  Load act 6, cancel, load act 6, cancel repeat and so forth. Doesnt need the animation to finish so u can do it rapid.

  
  
  Why are you telling her how to use a glitch?
• Eiryie wrote on 2014-04-29 02:46

  Quote from Nui;1217567:

  New players arent required to do anything, its what they want to do. They can take their time and work for their gear or they can complain to nexon/devcat to give them op stuff so they can clear content that was meant to be later game before they even get past 1k. New players dont need to be able to stomp all content in the first 1k levels, they can take their time and work for gear like a lot of people did back in the old days. You dont need to hit end game right off the bat, you can enjoy the game by playing it how it was intended, to be a very long and rewarding journey to the end, not to get through a month and already be able to stomp elites without an issue.

  
  
  See, that's what they're supposed to do... in theory.
  
  But the feeling of being weaker than everyone else can be quite stressful.
  Eiry knows when she started using puppets that nobody would party with her even for dailies, simply because they weren't HM or Elite.
  Eiry was also useless in HM missions when she finally became able to do them, because her damage was too low in comparison to the people hitting 10k or more. Every crisis just slowed Eiry's partymates down. Every climactic crash was rendered useless by a nearby gunner's Shooting Rush. Eiry just stuck to shooting support shots at bosses because it's all she could do.
  
  So it's not about "Stomping elites without an issue", it's about being able to keep up with the speed that mabinogi's going at nowadays.
  
  You can't treat the game like it was "back in the old days" because back then, you weren't achieving level 100 with each rebirth. You weren't getting +5.5 AP every day from dailies+saga. You weren't having to sink gold into special upgrades, expensive and rare armor, enchants, reforges, etc. And you certainly weren't doing elite missions because they didn't exist.
  
  Granted, a newbie probably won't be doing most of this off the bat, but it only took Eiry 600 levels before she had to start thinking about all of this stuff.
• Syliara wrote on 2014-04-29 02:58

  Quote from Darkboy132;1217571:

  Why are you telling her how to use a glitch?

  
  
  She wanted a way to make her puppet more tanky and i told her. Is there an issue with this?
  
  

  Quote from Eiryie;1217572:

  See, that's what they're supposed to do... in theory.
  
  But the feeling of being weaker than everyone else can be quite stressful.
  Eiry knows when she started using puppets that nobody would party with her even for dailies, simply because they weren't HM or Elite.
  Eiry was also useless in HM missions when she finally became able to do them, because her damage was too low in comparison to the people hitting 10k or more. Every crisis just slowed Eiry's partymates down. Every climactic crash was rendered useless by a nearby gunner's Shooting Rush. Eiry just stuck to shooting support shots at bosses because it's all she could do.
  
  So it's not about "Stomping elites without an issue", it's about being able to keep up with the speed that mabinogi's going at nowadays.
  
  You can't treat the game like it was "back in the old days" because back then, you weren't achieving level 100 with each rebirth. You weren't getting +5.5 AP every day from dailies+saga. You weren't having to sink gold into special upgrades, expensive and rare armor, enchants, reforges, etc. And you certainly weren't doing elite missions because they didn't exist.
  
  Granted, a newbie probably won't be doing most of this off the bat, but it only took Eiry 600 levels before she had to start thinking about all of this stuff.

  
  
  You dont need to try and keep up with everyone else thats hitting ridiculous numbers, you are welcome to run things with people near your level or to run things by yourself (solonogi too easy to accomplish now). The power gap between new players and higher tier players keeps getting smaller due to all of the content being added that buffs the new players and helps them. The difficulty of reaching higher tiers in this game is constantly getting easier to accomplish, yet people still cry out for buffs op gear to nexon/devcat and cry when they dont get it saying "the game is too hard D:" when in reality its only difficult because you have become extremely complacent with getting op stuff fed to you by nexon and devcat.
• Eiryie wrote on 2014-04-29 03:28

  Quote from Nui;1217574:

  You dont need to try and keep up with everyone else thats hitting ridiculous numbers, you are welcome to run things with people near your level or to run things by yourself (solonogi too easy to accomplish now). The power gap between new players and higher tier players keeps getting smaller due to all of the content being added that buffs the new players and helps them. The difficulty of reaching higher tiers in this game is constantly getting easier to accomplish, yet people still cry out for buffs op gear to nexon/devcat and cry when they dont get it saying "the game is too hard D:" when in reality its only difficult because you have become extremely complacent with getting op stuff fed to you by nexon and devcat.

  
  
  If Eiry runs missions with people Eiry's level, then how does Eiry get the gold to be able to grow?
  Consider that Eiry considers herself as a part-time fashionogi, as well. A lot of gold goes into that.
  With the limited-time nature of fashion, you can't take time to sit around and do int missions. Else your favourite item will be 30m and owned by the biggest jerk on the server.
  Likewise, with the random nature of the more combat-oriented side of Mabinogi, you require a large reserve of gold simply because much of it will be lost in gold sinks like reforges, artisans, enchants and special upgrades.
  
  And what do you mean, power gap getting smaller?
  It's getting bigger. Back in ~G9, the difference between what was "pro" and what was "newb" was about 200 damage, tops.
  Now it's in the tens of thousands.
  
  Reaching higher tiers is indeed easier, but reaching the tiers required to be able to comfortably play the game how you want to play it is getting harder.
• Syliara wrote on 2014-04-29 03:59

  Quote from Eiryie;1217581:

  If Eiry runs missions with people Eiry's level, then how does Eiry get the gold to be able to grow?
  Consider that Eiry considers herself as a part-time fashionogi, as well. A lot of gold goes into that.
  With the limited-time nature of fashion, you can't take time to sit around and do int missions. Else your favourite item will be 30m and owned by the biggest jerk on the server.
  Likewise, with the random nature of the more combat-oriented side of Mabinogi, you require a large reserve of gold simply because much of it will be lost in gold sinks like reforges, artisans, enchants and special upgrades.
  
  And what do you mean, power gap getting smaller?
  It's getting bigger. Back in ~G9, the difference between what was "pro" and what was "newb" was about 200 damage, tops.
  Now it's in the tens of thousands.
  
  Reaching higher tiers is indeed easier, but reaching the tiers required to be able to comfortably play the game how you want to play it is getting harder.

  
  
  If your talking fashionogi ur talking for yourself. You cant talk for a majority of the new playerbase because of how you play.
  
  Mid-tier enchants are cheap and pretty farmable so this isnt really an issue if you put the time and effort into it. Reforges are something that you do much later after you have finished most of your gear enchant wise and special upgrade wise, and by that time you should be able to make a stead income flow. Special upgrades are just a lot of luck... you can get away with maybe 300~400k for step 5 or spend millions getting step 5 so its a moot point honestly.
  
  What? Back years ago seeing things like 5k+ was considered pro, at least thats what I saw, and I was hitting a few hundred maybe. Now you can go buy some focused rainbow beam swords and easily start pushing out 5k+ smashes, keep in mind those focused rainbow beams are extremely inexpensive now too. To get to a point where you can do high tier content without much trouble is A LOT easier than it was back then, just because you arent overkilling 20k's doesnt mean that you arent clearing high tier content abnormally fast. Back a few years ago, doing elites was a chore for the most part, now its extremely easy for a lot of players depending on where your skillset is strongest and how you allocated your ap. My point is that being able to clear content has gotten significantly easier even for new players, trying to complain that the game is too difficult makes me scoff due to the fact that some of this content used to be unimaginably difficult (4 hour long peaca int runs, now its been reduced to 30 minutes with a good party).
  
  Being able to comfortably play the game is subjective to your own personal tastes, to me its being able to clear difficult content without much hassle which you can accomplish easily at total 500~1k if you build your character correctly (talking a good chunk of elite missions).
• Eiryie wrote on 2014-04-29 04:14

  Quote from Nui;1217586:

  If your talking fashionogi ur talking for yourself. You cant talk for a majority of the new playerbase because of how you play.
  
  Mid-tier enchants are cheap and pretty farmable so this isnt really an issue if you put the time and effort into it. Reforges are something that you do much later after you have finished most of your gear enchant wise and special upgrade wise, and by that time you should be able to make a stead income flow. Special upgrades are just a lot of luck... you can get away with maybe 300~400k for step 5 or spend millions getting step 5 so its a moot point honestly.
  
  What? Back years ago seeing things like 5k+ was considered pro, at least thats what I saw, and I was hitting a few hundred maybe. Now you can go buy some focused rainbow beam swords and easily start pushing out 5k+ smashes, keep in mind those focused rainbow beams are extremely inexpensive now too. To get to a point where you can do high tier content without much trouble is A LOT easier than it was back then, just because you arent overkilling 20k's doesnt mean that you arent clearing high tier content abnormally fast. Back a few years ago, doing elites was a chore for the most part, now its extremely easy for a lot of players depending on where your skillset is strongest and how you allocated your ap. My point is that being able to clear content has gotten significantly easier even for new players, trying to complain that the game is too difficult makes me scoff due to the fact that some of this content used to be unimaginably difficult (4 hour long peaca int runs, now its been reduced to 30 minutes with a good party).
  
  Being able to comfortably play the game is subjective to your own personal tastes, to me its being able to clear difficult content without much hassle which you can accomplish easily at total 500~1k if you build your character correctly (talking a good chunk of elite missions).

  
  
  Eiry was speaking from both perspectives. There are a bunch of new players who get into fashion right away.
  
  This is true - the only reason Eiry's been messing with reforges recently is because of the event.
  But the point about it being a gold sink still stands.
  
  Maybe Eiry forgets the years, but Eiry remembers a time when 2~500+ damage was a very high amount.
  
  And sure, you can start pushing out 5k+ smashes now... But the endgame content is a lot harder. Eiry has yet to enter an Abyss dungeon. Back when 5k+ damage was pro, abyss dungeons would have been written off as literally impossible.
  Clearing content IS easier, Eiry won't argue that, but there's newer content that's just as hard to beat now as the old content was when it was released.
  Additionally, as a side point, older players only have to worry about the newer content. Newer players have to worry about all the content!
  
  Being able to play comfortably to Eiry is being able to do what you want to do. Eiry, at present, is still unable to play comfortably because Eiry isn't quite strong enough to join her Oneechan on MA runs. More of a social thing.
  
  Edit: Eiry has to go to bed because 8 AM final.
  
  So see ya.
• Syliara wrote on 2014-04-29 04:32

  Quote from Eiryie;1217588:

  Eiry was speaking from both perspectives. There are a bunch of new players who get into fashion right away.
  
  This is true - the only reason Eiry's been messing with reforges recently is because of the event.
  But the point about it being a gold sink still stands.
  
  Maybe Eiry forgets the years, but Eiry remembers a time when 2~500+ damage was a very high amount.
  
  And sure, you can start pushing out 5k+ smashes now... But the endgame content is a lot harder. Eiry has yet to enter an Abyss dungeon. Back when 5k+ damage was pro, abyss dungeons would have been written off as literally impossible.
  Clearing content IS easier, Eiry won't argue that, but there's newer content that's just as hard to beat now as the old content was when it was released.
  Additionally, as a side point, older players only have to worry about the newer content. Newer players have to worry about all the content!
  
  Being able to play comfortably to Eiry is being able to do what you want to do. Eiry, at present, is still unable to play comfortably because Eiry isn't quite strong enough to join her Oneechan on MA runs. More of a social thing.

  
  
  Going for fashion as a major goldsink right at the start is their decision, and they shouldnt complain if they cant make money. You can be decently fashionable and have a low cost on those fashion items if you dont go out of your way to get the more expensive clothing. My point is tho, you cant complain you dont have money for combat character progression if you are dumping a good amount of your gold into fashion as well.
  
  It is a gold sink, though it really should only be a gold sink for later game when you have the money to spend on it without breaking ur bank.
  
  If you started in g9, that never happened lol....
  
  Abyss isnt difficult, its just a bunch of mobs with instant aggro, ping, a lot of damage, and a good amount of hp. It could have been completed a couple years ago if people used something that doesnt seem to exist now called TACTICS. We dont need tactics at this point due to the fact we can yolo and never die, whilst dealing incredible dmg at the same time. New content isnt really difficult to do at all, if you plan ahead accordingly and use tactics even low levels can complete it. The difference is the time, energy, and resources put into them by a stronger party compared to a weaker party that makes it seem like the norm is to have an overpowered party to be able to complete that content. Newer players only need to worry about the content relevant to them at that point in time, they can worry about later content when they are good and ready to run it.
  
  Playing comfortably is subjective to each person, so you cant really use such a generalized statement for the mass majority of the newer players.
• Slayerj wrote on 2014-04-29 04:49
  Nui, about the tactics bit.... What exactly is a tactic for something with ADV heavy mob that spawns in large numbers? Then and now, if you don't mind saying both. Because I still have no clue what any tactic would be for a group of instant agro, long agro range, ADV heavy-bull shit, Ghasts. That's the only real difficulty in Peaca Abyss.
• Syliara wrote on 2014-04-29 06:23

  Quote from Slayerj;1217594:

  Nui, about the tactics bit.... What exactly is a tactic for something with ADV heavy mob that spawns in large numbers? Then and now, if you don't mind saying both. Because I still have no clue what any tactic would be for a group of instant agro, long agro range, ADV heavy-bull shit, Ghasts. That's the only real difficulty in Peaca Abyss.

  
  
  Those spawn in waves in peaca int, yet people were able to clear it using tactics to stay alive. I dont know the exact methods used back then since i was really casual at the time, but I'm sure people would figure out ways to do this with reduced damage.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2014-04-29 07:58
  Rain Casting.
  
  Before rain casting. Campfire and killing one at a time. Or barriers. Or a lucky frozen blast. Ghasts can be frozen.
• Perfectio wrote on 2014-04-29 09:15
  From what I understand, you could thunder the ghasts behind walls? I can't remember exactly. I never ran it during those days but a bunch of my guildies back then did.
• Yuuki Asuna wrote on 2014-04-29 14:51

  Quote from Perfectio;1217616:

  From what I understand, you could thunder the ghasts behind walls? I can't remember exactly. I never ran it during those days but a bunch of my guildies back then did.

  
  
  The method involves setting up barrier spikes orthogonal to the door and thundering the spikes to hit enemies in the nearby vicinity, thus allowing you to hit through walls. Other cool stuff you could do was use spirit incarnation in a room full of ghosts to mob them. There was also deer-lock to deal with ghasts and the ever popular campfire (still pretty useful to this day actually).
• Slayerj wrote on 2014-04-29 15:11
  So one way, the rain way, that people want to be changed. Camp fires are still liable, frozen blast is too (Though there was at least one person wanting the Ele Wave version of it nerfed lol), and a cheat way with the spikes.
  
  Sorry for the semi off/on topic question. I just never understood how ADV heavy could lead to any actual tactics instead of just bull shit that hits like a truck and doesn't give a single fuck unless you lance crit smash it a few times. lol It just comes off to me as "Fuck tactics, just hit it hard enough asap!" They're right up there next to spam placing blinkers in a boss room as the worst kinda of 'difficulty' I've ever seen. You either need VERY specific things to deal with them, or just hit them hard enough and pray to god you don't get screwed over. (1-2 blinkers are fine, putting like 6 in that one boss room? Devcat, that's not even difficult, that's just a dick move bro.)
• Aubog007 wrote on 2014-04-30 07:18
  Which hilariously is not really tactics for the most part, but abuse of the glitches.
  
  /for campfire and barrier thundering.
  
  I think when they made ghasts, they realized that with how mabi is, they couldn't really make hard content at all.