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Taycat wrote on 2014-06-18 10:53
[Image: http://i.imgur.com/FD8pvv8.jpg]
(CNN) -- A transgender rights advocacy group says the South Carolina Department of Motor Vehicles restricted a teen's free speech rights by asking him to remove his makeup for a driver's license photo.
Sixteen-year-old Chase Culpepper went to take his driver's test in Anderson in March.
Chase considers himself "gender non-conforming," he told CNN affiliate WYFF. He regularly wears makeup and girl's clothes.
After passing his driver's test, Chase went to take his photo for his license. But an employee at the office asked him to remove his makeup.
The employee told Chase he couldn't wear "a disguise" and didn't look "like a boy should," the teen told the affiliate.
CNN reached out to the state DMV and was told it had a policy specifying the requirements for the photograph.
"At no time will an applicant be photographed when it appears that he or she is purposely altering his or her appearance so that the photo would misrepresent his or her identity," the policy says.
"That's been the policy since August of 2009," spokeswoman Beth Park said.
"Stage makeup is not acceptable because it can be used to alter appearance. Regular everyday makeup is accepted because it's used to highlight or hide blemishes," she said.
The Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund is now asking that the DMV allow Chase to retake his photo.
"His freedom to express his gender should not be restricted by the DMV staff," the fund's executive director, Michael Silverman, said.
"He is entitled to be who he is and to express that without interference from government actors."
Source
I mean, it makes a little sense, because you aren't always going to wear makeup, right? I mean, if you get injured at home or something and they need your driver's license, wearing the makeup will interfere with them being able to identify you...
BUT at the same time, they allow women to wear makeup so that's where I'm just confused why they won't let them wear their makeup.
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Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-06-18 11:35
Well, it has to do with the whole identification thing. Even if he thinks/wants to be/feels like a girl, physically he is still male. So if they look at the license and see a girl, then look at him and see a boy, there would be all sorts of confusion and a whole case would have to be opened to verify that it's the right person and that the license isn't stolen or altered and blah blah legal system etc. And that's if he's conscious to explain the situation, it would be even worse if an accident were to render him unconscious, then they wouldn't even be able to ask about it and there would be even more confusion.
Also, it may be the -amount- of makeup, I've never seen any woman wear as much makeup as a transgender guy trying to look more like a girl, dear god so much makeup.
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Kyishi wrote on 2014-06-18 13:33
i think this group needs better things to do with their lives in all due respect
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Kaeporo wrote on 2014-06-18 13:59
Quote from Kyishi;1226505:
i think this group needs better things to do with their lives in all due respect
I agree.
In a better world nobody would fight over diversity issues and groups like this would collapse.
Unfortunately, that's not the world which we live in. I personally believe that some people definitely overemphasis the importance of sexuality, but it's ultimately none of my business how people go about life.
This group is overstepping its boundaries in this situation, however. Law enforcement agencies need to be able to readily identify people. Eyewitness identification is a secondary concern, though still more important in my opinion than sexual orientation. You're potentially weighing one's appearance over another's freedom.
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Hanna wrote on 2014-06-18 18:32
Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1226495:
Well, it has to do with the whole identification thing. Even if he thinks/wants to be/feels like a girl, physically he is still male. So if they look at the license and see a girl, then look at him and see a boy, there would be all sorts of confusion and a whole case would have to be opened to verify that it's the right person and that the license isn't stolen or altered and blah blah legal system etc. And that's if he's conscious to explain the situation, it would be even worse if an accident were to render him unconscious, then they wouldn't even be able to ask about it and there would be even more confusion.
Also, it may be the -amount- of makeup, I've never seen any woman wear as much makeup as a transgender guy trying to look more like a girl, dear god so much makeup.
Basically this, I think it's bullshit people are trying to fight this
I think this is just another "WAAAAAAH MY RIGHTS WERE RESTRICTED WHEN THEY REALLY WEREN'T" advocacy attempt
Do these people ever get tired of always being outraged? I'm starting to take these stories less and less seriously because half of the time it turns out they're either lying or exaggerating details
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TLCBonaparte wrote on 2014-06-19 00:26
I don't agree with the government on this one. Hear me out:
If he wears makeup all the time, and the license shows him without makeup, wouldn't the disguise be the his male look? If they want a photo of him looking like he usually does, it makes sense to take his photo with makeups on. Just saying.
I don't see what DMV did as malicious, but it's still wrong due to reason stated above.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2014-06-19 00:43
Quote from TLCBonaparte;1226600:
I don't agree with the government on this one. Hear me out:
If he wears makeup all the time, and the license shows him without makeup, wouldn't the disguise be the his male look? If they want a photo of him looking like he usually does, it makes sense to take his photo with makeups on. Just saying.
I don't see what DMV did as malicious, but it's still wrong due to reason stated above.
dis·guise
noun
a means of altering one's appearance or concealing one's identity.
Makeup is a disguise. There's no way around that.
The photo on your license is meant to identify you. While I understand that his female look may be more accurate to law enforcement, the fact that he can have multiple appearances essentially voids the entire point of the picture.
Might as well not even have a fucking photo.
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TLCBonaparte wrote on 2014-06-19 00:57
Quote from Kaeporo;1226604:
dis·guise
noun
a means of altering one's appearance or concealing one's identity.
Makeup is a disguise. There's no way around that.
The photo on your license is meant to identify you. While I understand that his female look may be more accurate to law enforcement, the fact that he can have multiple appearances essentially voids the entire point of the picture.
Might as well not even have a fucking photo.
He's not concealing his identity though, he just want a photo with his usual one hahaha. You are only wearing a disguise when you are hiding who you are, he clearly is not cross-dressing to hide his identity, that's just how he normally dresses.
If we are talking the potential of him going back to his old appearance, the same thing could be said about any of us start cross-dressing. I see no real merit taking his photo without makeup.
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Time wrote on 2014-06-19 02:13
Quote from TLCBonaparte;1226605:
He's not concealing his identity though, he just want a photo with his usual one hahaha. You are only wearing a disguise when you are hiding who you are, he clearly is not cross-dressing to hide his identity, that's just how he normally dresses.
If we are talking the potential of him going back to his old appearance, the same thing could be said about any of us start cross-dressing. I see no real merit taking his photo without makeup.
If something happens to him and he needs to be identified by the photo, his base appearance may be the best way to do so, therefore without the makeup and etc. From that sense he will
always be identifiable from the photo if its his male self, as makeup can be removed, if its the female it may be more difficult as police or whomever will not add makeup.
Either way it will be confusing, but one way is at least always with some work identifiable.
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SlurpTASTY wrote on 2014-06-19 02:29
This is so petty, they should find a better use of their time... like playing Mabinogi.
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Chiyuri wrote on 2014-06-19 10:23
Most of the time they will need said card, the person will have make up on probably so not wearing your usual attire is what would be confusing. Some here seem to think she wouldn't wear her makeup at home or in some other situation but, most of the time these people will be wearing whatever they need to feel better and more confortable in their own body. And even if in some case the makeup get washed away in an accident.. make up wont actually change the shape of your face so you'll still be reconizeble unless ya use a stiff tone of it.
Also this article is kinda a slap to the trans comunity. Use the correct pronoun for her.
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Aubog007 wrote on 2014-06-19 10:29
You really can't make up these kinds of stories.
I don't know what to think of this. Should i be offended or face palm.
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Osayidan wrote on 2014-06-19 11:04
This is why we need to replace ID photos with DNA data,
Gattaca style.
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Natural Harmonia Gropius wrote on 2014-06-19 11:07
Quote from Osayidan;1226721:
This is why we need to replace ID photos with DNA data, Gattaca style.
I'm pretty sure they would find some way to be pissed and offended at that too. Still a more reliable method than photo ID.
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Campylobacter jejuni wrote on 2014-06-19 11:15
How about finger prints? Easier to look up and match than DNA to boot with.
I don't care either way. I find this a completely non-issue. If they feel like impeding their work by making a picture that won't look like him, their problem. If s/he intends to cry about restricting their extravagancy for one moment of official work, their problem.