The sheer volume of AP that Beginners receive

• Osayidan wrote on 2014-08-16 18:50

  Quote from Meli;1240855:

  They still have to train the skills.
  you guys are acting as if ap was a huge set back in the game mechanics. there shouldn't be any complaints especially since we got free rb, so no matter how hard they try to catch up veterans can still be a step ahead of them.
  
  if they want to reach end game it only depends on if they are hard workers or just lazying around.
  and if they take the time to do all the skills that we did, then I say good for them, they put in the work.
  
  you shouldn't feel anyways towards these new players, after all you decided to invest your time in the game, your weren't held at gun point. If your soul purpouse to this game was to only train and be the strongest then I am sorry you miss out on other aspects of the game.

  
  
  It isn't only a matter of free AP.
  It's how easy some of the previous content has become.
  
  Best example would be windmill. It used to be the hardest skill to rank. It took me weeks of grinding zombies at TNN and being very careful not to level too much or else the zombies wouldn't be boss anymore. These days people can just rank it up like it's nothing, with combat talent for 2x exp, exp pots,, -CP gear and all that fancy stuff.
  
  Now as of today I also have -CP gear and all those same advantages but it doesn't alleviate the annoyance that if I had just waited a couple more years to start playing this game I would be pretty much on the same level of progression that I am today and would have avoided all those headaches.
  
  The problem I have is our generation of players had to do so much shit and jump through so many hoops to do what today is a walk in the park.
• Qnjo wrote on 2014-08-16 19:05
  It's a great thing. Training some skills is painful enough and after reaching the point where you need 20-30 AP per skill per rank, things get pretty dull.
• Cyrene wrote on 2014-08-16 19:10

  Quote from Osayidan;1240877:

  All of this

  
  
  is the fucking truth.
  
  I may be salty about this because usually in an mmo, you are rewarded for being a veteran but all I'm getting out of this is a long and I repeat LONG purchase list history and a huge amount of time on this game that could have been spent outside. I don't even see a point for nerfing g1/g2/etc so hard when they gave newer players this high of a stepping stool. They may as well cut that content out and give you the transformations automatically. Because all they are right now is boring dungeons where everything is probably getting one hit. Make better tutorials, give people a guide on your front page linking to leatrix so that they don't get turned off instantly by the atrocious latency lag.
  
  God I'm just pissed that I've spent so much damn money every 1000 levels and now you can do the same in less than a week.
• Meli wrote on 2014-08-16 19:44

  Quote from Osayidan;1240877:

  It isn't only a matter of free AP.
  It's how easy some of the previous content has become.
  
  Best example would be windmill. It used to be the hardest skill to rank. It took me weeks of grinding zombies at TNN and being very careful not to level too much or else the zombies wouldn't be boss anymore. These days people can just rank it up like it's nothing, with combat talent for 2x exp, exp pots,, -CP gear and all that fancy stuff.
  
  Now as of today I also have -CP gear and all those same advantages but it doesn't alleviate the annoyance that if I had just waited a couple more years to start playing this game I would be pretty much on the same level of progression that I am today and would have avoided all those headaches.
  
  The problem I have is our generation of players had to do so much shit and jump through so many hoops to do what today is a walk in the park.

  
  
  the destiny system came out around 2011, things such as -cp and 2exp have been around since then, the only thing that might have not been around was the skill training pot.
  
  Unless your talking about way before 2011
  i don't think I have been playing that long
  
  It might be easy for them, but you have to remember the things that was leading up to it being easy for them are the same things we depend on today to rank these new skills.
  
  so if we are to complain about these things wouldn't we be hypocrites
• Yoorah wrote on 2014-08-16 20:07

  Quote from Osayidan;1240850:

  I personally feel all the bonuses and now this 500 AP new players get makes all the work those of us who played form the beginning did seem like a waste.
  Things that would take us weeks of grinding to achieve several years ago can now be done in half a day by someone who creates an account right now.
  As a person who values their time I find the whole thing pretty insulting.

  
  I can see how this could be frustrating, but you know... this is really nothing new and in no way different from all the other ways in which they cheapen the investment made by people before. It's a form of inflation, essentially. As time goes by, your assets and achievements from the past become less valuable. The only way maintain your edge is to keep trying to make the most of the system as the operating environment changes.
  
  It's a waste of time either way.
• Osayidan wrote on 2014-08-16 20:57

  Quote from Meli;1240888:

  
  Unless your talking about way before 2011
  

  
  
  From 2008 when the game opened up in NA. When they introduced tendering potions it was almost enough to make me believe in the existence of a god.
• Renzato wrote on 2014-08-16 20:59
  I used to get pissed off at this sort of thing, but now I'm whatever towards it. I've had a lot of fun and entertainment in my years of playing, so that's all I really care about. A lot of that enjoyment came from the challenge and how nice it felt to overcome things like Chapter 1/2 WM training. Spent like two straight weeks in that place trying to get it to rank 1. Painful, but it felt incredibly rewarding. I'm sure most of you veterans can at least agree with me on that point.
  
  t's a shame that they're making certain things less challenging to beginners, but I can't say I didn't expect it. When I look back at my character's progress throughout the years, it's really something. I'm definitely looking through rose-tinted glasses at this point, but still. I don't think newer players will truly understand this sort of thing.
• JasonHero wrote on 2014-08-16 22:04
  The skill training pots and all that extra ap are a bit crazy, but incan understand their thinking. I've only played for 5 or 6 months so i can understand why they would feel that new players would need help.
  Imagine if the game stayed as hard as what everyone is saying " old mabi" was forever. Then a new player joins in a few years later. They see all these players with end game stuff and they wanna be like them. Then they hear how it took all the veterans 2 years to get to that point. And then the player feels hopeless cause the game wouldn't have gotten any easier from when the old platers started and now, making it seem like they will NEVER catch up to them. That's why the game needs to get easier as the game gets older. Cause if it doesn't, then the new players will never catch up to them, and any new players trying to be one of the best eill know that there's no chance to ever catch up everyone else without spending years.
  
  Although personally i still think the bags and skill training pots are unfair. I would pay alot of nx for skill training pots if i could.
• Zekkii wrote on 2014-08-16 23:21

  Quote from Osayidan;1240850:

  I personally feel all the bonuses and now this 500 AP new players get makes all the work those of us who played form the beginning did seem like a waste.
  Things that would take us weeks of grinding to achieve several years ago can now be done in half a day by someone who creates an account right now.
  As a person who values their time I find the whole thing pretty insulting.

  
  I'm surprised how short the game is getting, if you want to max out a skillset you could probably do it before you even run out of AP now. I'm not really sure this is good for beginners, what do players even have to strive for anymore? Probably just reforges and dragons, or squeezing the few remaining stats they have out of the grindy life skills they have. It just sounds depressing to me, get in, train skills, get out. The best parts of Mabinogi were undoubtedly the early and middle ones. I think Kaeporo said it best:
  

  Quote from Kaeporo;1240851:

  Nexon/DevCat: Race EVERYONE to end-game, where absolutely NOTHING is waiting for them.

  
  
  Players don't have to think anymore, that's a huge drawback if you ask me. The game loses a lot of depth when you can instantly rank all the skills in a skillset to max level. I'll admit that gaining AP was slow to start Mabi, but it really did help to draw out the differences between skills and gave players the freedom to shine through their unique builds.
• Ninjam wrote on 2014-08-16 23:21
  As someone who joined in open beta, i have a meh additude to most of this. I played on and off, usually at a free-rebirth pace of once every 3 weeks, not trying to optimize my leveling and paying for a rb card or two or premium services on the chance I was playing often.
  
  The result was I am nearing total level 5000. At a rebirth total of 100.
  When people boast about their rebirth averages and stuff i stop and remember that, for me at least, a good amount of my rebirths were from before they redid the leveling curve, or from before shadow missions existed, or may other things. Did that handicap me? Not at all, its just a game. It actually makes me kind of happy that friends that join now can come join me in higher level missions without being shafted due to low damage.
  
  Sure, there not going to get the experience of running rabbie dungeon at total level 100 or less and learning how to deal with skeletons with rank 9 wm and smash as your strongest skills, but the games changed, now there's more to do, and see. As long as mabinogi keeps giving us new and interesting content ill be happy to play.
  
  I think personally that its all fine as long as the level curve increases to normal after the players out of beginner stages. Give them enough ap to max one or even two skillsets, thats fine with me, put them onto a more level playing field to run hardmode or even elite level missions. They still gotta hunt their gear, enchants, train the skills(even if its easier now) and all that to make their character have max power.
• Kelvas wrote on 2014-08-16 23:44
  [UB]I didn't read every single post within the last 3 pages, so I apologize if I overlap with what someone else said.
  Anyhow, here's what I think.
  [SPOILER="me raging"]
  Why? Why Nexon?! I thought the last beginner's revamp (up to 1k daily freebirths) was good enough for newbies. Now there's this bullshit. Are they going to devalue everything to the point that effort and time means absolutely nothing?
  The whole point of these revamps is just to keep players in, so that they'll be addicted enough to waste a fortune on gachas and reforges. This isn't going to help. Eventually, people will get to the point in which they're no longer spoon fed, and quit since the game becomes harder than what they are used to, not that it's hard tbh. Heck, they'll be able to reach "end game" sooner and have nothing to do and quit.
  
  Most skill training requirements are jokes. The only hard part for newbies in this game is to get APs, and thanks to these new revamps, getting AP becomes a joke as well. This whole game is a joke. [/SPOILER][/UB]
• Taycat wrote on 2014-08-17 01:52
  don't forget the talent journal that will also give you bonus AP
  but yeah, honestly, AP is AP guys, nothing to cry over
  you can get like 500AP a month if you level up to 100 once a week at like lvl 25 exploration each week in an average 4 week month.
  you just gotta work for it, and honestly, why complain?
• Aubog007 wrote on 2014-08-17 02:07
  Mabi was always about the journey, never the destination.
  
  Now what, there's no destination at all.
  
  
  People complaining that player A is stronger than player B. Well they put 5-6 years in the damn game.
  Mabinogi is a different game, this isnt endgame focused.
• Northwind wrote on 2014-08-17 07:58
  As someone who had to start over because the freaking server I was playing on was shut down, I couldn't care less if my way up is a little easier the next time Nexon decides to throw me back to square one.
• koishi-sempai wrote on 2014-08-17 17:25
  I have no issue with DevCat/Nexon throwing things at beginners. Keep in mind that we've gotten loads of free stuff over the years that beginners can't even begin to have, and the beginners have to catch up to years and years of accumulated wealth and power compared to which the beginner stuff is a drop in the bucket.
  
  Also, it's a better business decision. Barring a revolutionary overhaul to the combat and battle aspects of the game (which have ALWAYS been only one piece of the puzzle no matter how much people want to pretend Mabinogi wasn't always partially a casual social dress up game despite the hardcore grind elements), the 10-20k TTL set is going to quit soon anyway while the beginners who would have quit because Mabi got too frustrating for them (largely because the grind that everyone is talking about is basically there to force you to buy things in order to not be frustrated with the game) stay, end up buying pets, gachas and eventually reforges, and feed money into the game.