10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman

• Murasaki wrote on 2014-10-31 16:49

  Quote from Kaeporo;1252661:

  That's actually pretty scary.
  
  I consider it chivalrous to offer to walk with a woman back to her home but I suppose that's just a silly archaic gesture these days. It's good that people are at least bringing this issue to light.

  
  Yeah. The sad thing is that I know there are guys who genuinely mean well when they make the offer, but I've run into the less savory men more often, so now I just can't help but immediately want to escape the conversation.
  
  

  Quote from Drizzit;1252680:

  Oh god, it must be so terrible to be called beautiful everywhere you go; how did she even survive? The video I'd also subtly racist. Pretty much every guy in the vid is black. Where are the creepy white guys?

  
  The bolded is the kind of thinking that led this video to be made. These men (at least, most of them) aren't saying nice things about her body to be nice. They're saying nice things because they feel like they're entitled to get something out of her.
  
  

  Quote from SlurpTASTY;1252681:

  Probably doing something productive with their lives instead of loitering on the street harassing random women.

  
  That was uncalled for. I get just as much shit from white guys.
  
  The reason you don't see it is because even though the woman was harassed by over 100 people of varying backgrounds, most of the white guys were put off-camera or edited out.
• SlurpTASTY wrote on 2014-10-31 17:32

  Quote from Murasaki;1252705:

  Yeah. The sad thing is that I know there are guys who genuinely mean well when they make the offer, but I've run into the less savory men more often, so now I just can't help but immediately want to escape the conversation.
  
  
  The bolded is the kind of thinking that led this video to be made. These men (at least, most of them) aren't saying nice things about her body to be nice. They're saying nice things because they feel like they're entitled to get something out of her.
  
  
  That was uncalled for. I get just as much shit from white guys.
  
  The reason you don't see it is because even though the woman was harassed by over 100 people of varying backgrounds, most of the white guys were put off-camera or edited out.

  
  
  My bad then, I thought this video was completely unbiased (again, I just said it how I saw it).
  
  So like... is this actually some kind of racist video towards people of color, or a street harassment video, or both?
• k1nsoo wrote on 2014-10-31 18:08
  God bless you mami... damn....
• Murasaki wrote on 2014-10-31 21:36

  Quote from SlurpTASTY;1252709:

  My bad then, I thought this video was completely unbiased (again, I just said it how I saw it).
  
  So like... is this actually some kind of racist video towards people of color, or a street harassment video, or both?

  
  It's a street harassment video first and foremost, but with the knowledge that what we see isn't entirely what happened, it's also racist. It happens within feminism all the time. Some white feminists don't care about any other women's rights besides the rights of white females. It's unfortunate, especially in movements that claim to strive for equality. It hurts everyone else because it makes the rest of us look stupid/biased/etc.
• Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-10-31 23:13
  I never understood the whole paranoid of men thing. I mean there are creepy women out there too, but guy's aren't going around being scared whenever a woman compliments them. You could get murdered the second you step out of your house but people go outside. Anything you eat or drink that you didn't make yourself could have been spit in, but people still eat out. Worrying about everything that 'might' happen is bad for your health.
  
  If the video isn't insinuating rape and is just saying men shouldn't hit on women, then I don't even. With as many women I know that constantly bitch about how they're fat or ugly or no one loves them, I can't imagine them then turning around and getting pissed at someone for calling them sexy. Hell, I wish I was sexy enough to get catcall'd.
• Kyishi wrote on 2014-10-31 23:28

  Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1252736:

  I never understood the whole paranoid of men thing. I mean there are creepy women out there too, but guy's aren't going around being scared whenever a woman compliments them.

  
  |:...
  
  

  According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, female on male rape accounted for 0.2% of all known and convicted rapes in the United States.[30]

  
  
  Asides from that, men are generally much stronger than women and we have very little to no control when someone who means harm does approach us. When you're walking by yourself, as a woman, you are usually helpless unless you carry around self defense. That's where most of the fear comes in, I would believe.
• Kaon wrote on 2014-10-31 23:36

  Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1252736:

  I never understood the whole paranoid of men thing. I mean there are creepy women out there too, but guy's aren't going around being scared whenever a woman compliments them. You could get murdered the second you step out of your house but people go outside. Anything you eat or drink that you didn't make yourself could have been spit in, but people still eat out. Worrying about everything that 'might' happen is bad for your health.
  
  If the video isn't insinuating rape and is just saying men shouldn't hit on women, then I don't even. With as many women I know that constantly bitch about how they're fat or ugly or no one loves them, I can't imagine them then turning around and getting pissed at someone for calling them sexy. Hell, I wish I was sexy enough to get catcall'd.

  
  
  You can't just look at it like 'oh, if I was in that situation' cause, it's not the same.
  
  For one, how often would a guy have to be scared about a women overpowering them? It's not just about being creepy, it's an ongoing issue that there are men acting on it. It's not 'might', it DOES happen, and OFTEN.
  
  This isn't something men have to deal with really at all, or have anything to even compare to it.. I see this so often, where a guy is like, 'I don't get this, I never see it happen, why are you so worried about it'.
  
  Doesn't mean it's not a very real issue.
  
  
  ...besides, if you do actually feel like those are compliments, you need to rethink things. Respectful flirting and following a girl around 'hitting on them' are two very different things, and the second shouldn't happen, ever. There's nothing in this video that carries any respect.
• Cyrene wrote on 2014-10-31 23:43
  Okay, I'm probably going to get yelled at for this and this is why i hate this topic and don't really like the word feminist in general. It's kind of surprising you don't see egalitarian thrown around more often. Anywho, this first part is going to be responding to the Space Pirate.
  
  "If the video isn't insinuating rape and is just saying men shouldn't hit on women, then I don't even. With as many women I know that constantly bitch about how they're fat or ugly or no one loves them, I can't imagine them then turning around and getting pissed at someone for calling them sexy. Hell, I wish I was sexy enough to get catcall'd."
  
  I believe in a thing called personal space. I understand hitting on someone but there is definitely a time and a place. You don't just yell out at someone saying " Hey sexy can i get yo numba." You have nothing to do with that person. You have never met that person. All of these guys had very malignant goals. Simply put, they just wanted to fuck. Why can't a girl walk down the street and not be subject to harassment. Why aren't these people being treated as people with respect. Its almost like victim blaming. Why can't a girl try and look nice and not be subject to "Oh she asked for it since she was dressed in such a way."
  
  I've lived in places like Oakland and San Francisco where the schools are full of ignorant people who call their exes hoes and sluts etc. It seems like a lot of guys are raised thinking women are just sex objects. Its fucking wrong. [S]I'm missing a lot of context on my example here but I'm way to tired to form a comporable [/S]
  
  I don't honestly know what I'm talking about so I'm going to stop while I'm behind and take my probable beating.
• Kaon wrote on 2014-10-31 23:46
  Victim blaming is exactly what happens. 'She should dress differently' etc.
  
  Because how people dress should give anyone the right to treat them how they want, right? *eyerolls
  This mentality is so common tho.
  
  And it does come down to how people treat women. It's very socialized to have a sexual expectation of women, that they should look sexy and men are entitled to their bodies.
• Cyrene wrote on 2014-10-31 23:52
  It is and it's a big fucking downer. My ex who was only about 16 at the time was followed to her car by 3 dudes yelling hey baby where you headed. She ran to her car and they tried to open it. Barely locked it in time. I'm getting depressed. Gonna go jump into videogames were this stupid world can't piss me off.
• Murasaki wrote on 2014-11-01 00:57

  Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1252736:

  I never understood the whole paranoid of men thing. I mean there are creepy women out there too, but guy's aren't going around being scared whenever a woman compliments them. You could get murdered the second you step out of your house but people go outside. Anything you eat or drink that you didn't make yourself could have been spit in, but people still eat out. Worrying about everything that 'might' happen is bad for your health.
  
  If the video isn't insinuating rape and is just saying men shouldn't hit on women, then I don't even. With as many women I know that constantly bitch about how they're fat or ugly or no one loves them, I can't imagine them then turning around and getting pissed at someone for calling them sexy. Hell, I wish I was sexy enough to get catcall'd.

  
  
  I'm apparently sexy enough to get cat-called frequently and it's not fun. It ranges from mildly annoying to legitimately terrifying. Again, these men aren't saying "nice" things to be nice. They're saying nice things because they think they have a right to objectify a woman's body like she exists just to be their eye candy. And that's the nice end of that spectrum. Generally, I ignore these people when I can, and I consider myself lucky that I haven't been followed despite making it clear that I'm not interested.
  
  I had a friend that I knew in high school. My house was the closest to the school, so as a group, we all decided to hang out at my place. Eventually, all my friends started to leave and this one friend was the only one left. To get to the point, this person who knew my boundaries and who I'd known for a while and thought I could trust ended up touching me very inappropriately despite me telling him not to. Repeatedly. He never went further than that, and I consider myself extremely fortunate on that account, but the point is, that even someone who I'd known for this long thought he had a right to do what he did, and did it.
  
  More men than I can count have looked at me like they'd do the same (or worse) if they could catch me alone. These men are also the same men making cat calls and doing the things the men in the video were doing. It's fucking creepy.
  
  The man I mentioned in an earlier post drove up near me and tried to get me within reaching distance of his car, and when I wouldn't get near, he started asking things about my body that were none of is business, and eventually drove off. I felt so disgusted.
  
  At a time when I was taking the bus regularly, this one man would stand behind me every time. These buses were packed, so people being close together was nothing new. However, there was still enough room to not end up touching other people. This man would press himself against me very deliberately.
  
  On my way home one day, a man insisted on walking me home despite me saying repeatedly that someone was coming to get me. His intentions may have been nice, maybe? But when someone is insisting that much after I've been perfectly clear, I doubt that's the case. I've had perfectly normal conversations with men on buses, so I know there are nice guys out there. Those guys do not make comments about my body or where I'm going or taking me somewhere. They tell me something nice about my face, if they comment on any physical aspect about me at all. These guys are not the guys I have problems with. These guys are not making random cat calls or yelling "compliments" at girls out of nowhere.
  
  Once, I couldn't sleep over at a friend's house because her parents were very strict, and the friend who was supposed to let me sleep over in her stead went out partying instead. I found myself having to go home, and this required multiple buses. However, I missed the one that would take me on the last stretch because it was that late. On a car, it would have taken me 30 minutes to get home from where I was. A group of guys in a car ended up finding me, and thinking that I was waiting for someone, didn't immediately stop. They ended up circling the block I was at, and would look at me every time. I walked off and they kinda followed from a distance, but I ended up finding a 24-hour 7-Eleven, and managed to get myself a Taxi. I saw the guys outside the store in their car, and waited inside for the Taxi to get there. They didn't follow after that.
  
  In any case...
  A lot of these "compliments" aren't actually nice in the first place. If you think everything that's been said here is nice, you need to reevaluate your ideas on what compliments are.While some of them actually sound okay, body language and expression have a lot to do with what the actual meaning and implications of these things are.
  
  While female towards male abuse is a thing, you don't really see as many men talking about this. One of the reasons is that they're afraid that other men will make fun of them and compare them to women because they're being cowards or something (which is kind of sad, that a lot of men might not even support other men). The other reason, is that statistically, it just doesn't happen to them so often that they feel the need to make some kind of movement around this. In fact, I've seen way more cases of
  "I was really nice to this girl, but she wouldn't have sex with me for some reason =("
• Yoorah wrote on 2014-11-01 01:17
  A significant portion of those comments weren't even anything remotely close to harassment, like the random "how you doin'," "good evening," "god bless you," and whatnot. The fact that they had to include those shows that they didn't get as much content as they hoped.
  
  Unwanted attention? Perhaps. But when you're an attractive female [S]with big bouncing boobs and form-fitting clothing[/S], you're going to attract attention both from those who you like and those who you don't.
  
  The question then is how do people she attracts respond? This has more to do with how well-raised the people around her are, their socioeconomic status, etc--and less to do with sexism specifically or race. It just so happens that black and hispanic people are more likely to be from lower socioeconomic backgrounds; you're not going to see black or hispanic men who were raised well act in such an indecent manner. White people with similar backgrounds are going to do this type of stuff as well.
  
  Aside from the eyebrow-raising clips of the dude who followed her for 5 minutes and the dude who kept hitting on her, it really shouldn't be as big of a deal as the donation-seeking organization who made this video is trying to make it out to be. In Europe, if you tell a random girl that she's pretty, she'll smile, say thank you and move on. In the US, they assume you're a potential rapist. lulz
  
  This silly SJW stuff reminded me of this:
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/KwSKTmr.gif]

  
  [SPOILER="fight!!11"][video=youtube;EAwWPadFsOA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAwWPadFsOA[/video][/SPOILER]
• Aubog007 wrote on 2014-11-01 11:04
  Topic sounds like something i should chime in about, but i have no experience and i have done no research on the matter, so...
  
  I will go with common sense on this one. However i sense some slight exaggerations from people or slight overreactions.
• JADT wrote on 2014-11-01 11:32

  Quote from Murasaki;1252747:

  I'm apparently sexy enough to get cat-called frequently and it's not fun. It ranges from mildly annoying to legitimately terrifying. Again, these men aren't saying "nice" things to be nice. They're saying nice things because they think they have a right to objectify a woman's body like she exists just to be their eye candy. And that's the nice end of that spectrum. Generally, I ignore these people when I can, and I consider myself lucky that I haven't been followed despite making it clear that I'm not interested.
  
  I had a friend that I knew in high school. My house was the closest to the school, so as a group, we all decided to hang out at my place. Eventually, all my friends started to leave and this one friend was the only one left. To get to the point, this person who knew my boundaries and who I'd known for a while and thought I could trust ended up touching me very inappropriately despite me telling him not to. Repeatedly. He never went further than that, and I consider myself extremely fortunate on that account, but the point is, that even someone who I'd known for this long thought he had a right to do what he did, and did it.
  
  More men than I can count have looked at me like they'd do the same (or worse) if they could catch me alone. These men are also the same men making cat calls and doing the things the men in the video were doing. It's fucking creepy.
  
  The man I mentioned in an earlier post drove up near me and tried to get me within reaching distance of his car, and when I wouldn't get near, he started asking things about my body that were none of is business, and eventually drove off. I felt so disgusted.
  
  At a time when I was taking the bus regularly, this one man would stand behind me every time. These buses were packed, so people being close together was nothing new. However, there was still enough room to not end up touching other people. This man would press himself against me very deliberately.
  
  On my way home one day, a man insisted on walking me home despite me saying repeatedly that someone was coming to get me. His intentions may have been nice, maybe? But when someone is insisting that much after I've been perfectly clear, I doubt that's the case. I've had perfectly normal conversations with men on buses, so I know there are nice guys out there. Those guys do not make comments about my body or where I'm going or taking me somewhere. They tell me something nice about my face, if they comment on any physical aspect about me at all. These guys are not the guys I have problems with. These guys are not making random cat calls or yelling "compliments" at girls out of nowhere.
  
  Once, I couldn't sleep over at a friend's house because her parents were very strict, and the friend who was supposed to let me sleep over in her stead went out partying instead. I found myself having to go home, and this required multiple buses. However, I missed the one that would take me on the last stretch because it was that late. On a car, it would have taken me 30 minutes to get home from where I was. A group of guys in a car ended up finding me, and thinking that I was waiting for someone, didn't immediately stop. They ended up circling the block I was at, and would look at me every time. I walked off and they kinda followed from a distance, but I ended up finding a 24-hour 7-Eleven, and managed to get myself a Taxi. I saw the guys outside the store in their car, and waited inside for the Taxi to get there. They didn't follow after that.
  
  In any case...
  A lot of these "compliments" aren't actually nice in the first place. If you think everything that's been said here is nice, you need to reevaluate your ideas on what compliments are.While some of them actually sound okay, body language and expression have a lot to do with what the actual meaning and implications of these things are.
  
  While female towards male abuse is a thing, you don't really see as many men talking about this. One of the reasons is that they're afraid that other men will make fun of them and compare them to women because they're being cowards or something (which is kind of sad, that a lot of men might not even support other men). The other reason, is that statistically, it just doesn't happen to them so often that they feel the need to make some kind of movement around this. In fact, I've seen way more cases of
  "I was really nice to this girl, but she wouldn't have sex with me for some reason =("

  
  
  Like really, holy crap! :llama_scared:
  
  Glad to see you are safe. Big cities are always full of low life scum.
  
  I happen to live in the outer Vancouver area, and the city over from the one I live is called Surrey, and it's just full of scumbags that get off the buses each and every day to wreak havoc.
  
  Me personally, even though I'm a dude, I'd never go that place. Decent people in general are harassed each and every day. "YOU SMOKE WEED MAAHN", "GOT DAT GEEB", "SELL ME A SMOKE", and they follow you like lost dogs. Sometimes they get violent and they try to run you down with their cheap ghetto bikes. On the flip side, while women are targeted, men are also harassed as well.
  
  But I get where you're coming from, past the genderised harassment, there's the bullying at it's base covered by candy coated bullshit just to get inside your head (or pants). It's truly sickening, and I find that I go outside less and less because all I see are morons harassing strangers who have their own rights. I like to think in the gray area myself, where everyone is a victim to the filth that lurks big cities, or low income areas. It's like where women are targeted based on sex, men are targeted based on sport, and a lot of the time people do get stabbed, shot, or mugged or severely beaten by thugs.
  
  I get tired of it all the time, I always try to get home as fast as I can. I avoid bus stops because that's where a bunch of little thugs always hang out to jump people. I avoid shady streets behind stores where homeless people and gangsters hide, there are always reports of elderly people getting mugged etc.
  
  Your experiences wrench my gutt and send chills down my spine, I hope you stay safe! Always travel with a close friend, or relative if you don't already! :llama_nervous:
  
  Having played a female character for a long while on mabi, I know the harassment follows you just about anywhere. It may not sound like much, it may just be pixels, but people are behind those pixels. The way I see it, it's a filtering process of scenarios that may have, or could have happened outside of the game based on how they present themselves. So I am aware of the scenarios, and I greatly empathize with the horror that a lot of girls go through each day. But yes, the harassment is real in all shapes, and places, it can take form of some candy-coated load of bullshit, or simple gestures. One must never trust anyone outside of their own network of immediate close friends or family.
• Chiyuri wrote on 2014-11-01 14:06
  It sure seem pretty bad in the USA. Never seem anything relatively like that over here.