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RandomguyonMN wrote on 2015-01-02 22:49
I would like to get into pvping because I've gotten quite bored with the game since I've been playing since the game first opened.
What talents/equipment are best?
What skills should I be using?
What are the unspoken rules?
What is the proper etiquette?
Is there pvp lingo I should know?
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ironwoman wrote on 2015-01-02 23:15
The answer is: you don't pvp.
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Taycat wrote on 2015-01-02 23:21
yeah, don't pvp
it's not worth it
nobody is "noble" with pvp
they'll just call you a noob, loser, and shitty at the game until you log off or they get bored with camping you
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RandomguyonMN wrote on 2015-01-03 00:10
I should have been more specific, when I said "pvp" I actually meant dueling.
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drezzt wrote on 2015-01-03 00:14
There was a pvp tournament a few weeks ago, and these were the rules for it. I think they are pretty fair.
Tournament RULES
All rules will be upheld and enforced at the discretion of the judge(s).
1) No poison or poison type effects allowed; Including poison potions, venom sword, mirage missle, dischord, and Languhuris Chaser Knuckles
2) No trans, demi-god, or personas allowed (this includes Transformation mastery)
3) No Legendary weapons or Support puppets allowed. Period. (Ex. Caladbolg, Belisha)
4) Music Buffs are NOT allowed until the end of the pre-fight countdown
5) NO OTHER BUFFS (besides in-fight music) ARE ALLOWED. ~This now includes Berserk~
6) Locking skills such as Ice spear, Way of the Gun, chain-cast firebolt, and Final Hit cannot be spammed or chained.
7) Bind is now ILLEGAL. Using the skill will result in a severe penalty.
8) Life Drain and Frozen Blast are NOT ALLOWED in any form.
9) Mana shield and the use of any potion or skill that recovers HP are NOT ALLOWED.
10) Crusader skills are banned for this tournament (they will be revisisted next pvp season).
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Failure to abide by these rules can result in your immediate disqualification.
Minor or accidental infractions can be assessed during AND after the conclusion of the fight. This means you may request a rematch, should you protest the result.
If there is a glitch during the course of any duel, depending on the severity of the glitch, the fight may either be delayed without heals, or a rematch will be declared after the glitch is fixed. You must alert the judge immediately however, if anything is to be done about a glitch.
All duels in the ToC will be fought at 0% damage.
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Taycat wrote on 2015-01-03 00:18
Quote from RandomguyonMN;1259570:
I should have been more specific, when I said "pvp" I actually meant dueling.
same thing as PVP
there's no difference other than damage%
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Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-01-03 00:22
Quote from ironwoman;1259562:
The answer is: you pvp, you die.
Fixed. :skip:
Seriously, just don't. It's horribly unbalanced and no matter what you do you'll die.
Someone unfriended me because I PvP'd her and got butt hurt because I used Berserk (she never said I couldn't and it was never one of those "community rules").
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Kelvas wrote on 2015-01-03 01:02
PvP is horrible.
[SPOILER="reasons"]It teaches beginners that fighter and ninja are the best skill set in the game. It teaches that tanking is very viable. It teaches that being glass cannons are not viable. It teaches players that magic and archery suck. It teaches players to judge a player's skill by their internet speeds. It teaches players that getting multiple attacks instead of smashing spam is more efficient. It teaches players that AR is 99999999x better than Magnum (some cases maybe, not not all!). It teaches that no stat gunner is amazing. It teaches people that hydra sucks. It teaches players lullaby has no uses. It teaches players that "pro" people PvP. It teaches players that 1H+shield is efficient. It teaches players that lances suck. This list could go on forever.[/SPOILER]
If you must, just make a r6 ele 6 knux, and a r6 shuriken. Use divine knight shield skill (before it gets banned), and BFO during countdown.
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Rengeki wrote on 2015-01-03 02:00
1. Don't get mad if you lose.
2. If you win and the loser calls you names, just smile. It means they've recognized that you were the better fighter and they don't know how to say it nicely. :)
3. Don't expect to win.
In regards to equipment- Whatever gets you the most def and prot.
Talent and skills- Whatever suits your style. You'll probably have to lose a few battles to adjust, but dont give up! I don't think any skill set is better than the other for PvP.
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ironwoman wrote on 2015-01-03 02:13
Quote from Rengeki;1259593:
In regards to equipment- Whatever gets you the most def and prot.
This is exactly why I say "don't pvp"
Concept of tanking is laughable in Mabinogi. With that kind of equipment, you're not really going anywhere.
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Blassreiter wrote on 2015-01-03 02:40
For simplicity, PvP refers to Dueling. EvG (Elf v Giant) shall not be discussed because personally EvG is the true trollfest.
PvP is not made to be a teaching tool for PvE (Player vs Enemy/Environment/AI). PvP is PvP and PvE is PvE, they are not the same. Many people usually attack PvP on grounds like "It's cheap, it's unbalanced, it doesn't teach you to 'x', butthurt, etc" but you can't say that instances like these don't happen in PvE as well. Running Ciar dungeon doesn't teach you to do Act 4 onto Act 7 does it? Doing Their Method doesn't teach you to solo Peaca Int. Getting a Giant character card from Krug doesn't teach you that you can use Wind Guard as a form of pseudo Advanced Heavy Stander without activating the skill. You can't say "PvP doesn't teach you 'x'" because PvE doesn't teach you either. One thing to note is that PvE makes people do routine things like "spam windmill to reset AI, spam AoE pets, spam Way of the Gun on everything". PvP doesn't do that because it doesn't work on a player. An experienced duelist can detect "routine" behaviors. A player is not an AI that could be reset by Windmill.
I'll agree that PvP can be unbalanced. A level 1 with Ice Spear can simply spam it on any 10k player in PvP and still win, or FH/WoTG, etc (basically those common "banned skills"). Those skills are banned for a reason and it's a good idea to ban or limit their usage as seen from the rules that drezzt posted that was enforced in the Ruairi PvP Tournament. If such skills aren't banned or limited in usage then of course it would be unbalanced/cheap.
I'm certain that many people who says "do not PvP" fell victim to these "banned skills" and therefore got the impression that using these skills is the only way to "win". One question that I ask everyone is "what does it mean to win a duel?" The average person may say "That win number that you get towards your record. That number also tells you if you're a pro at dueling, same for the percentage". I do not believe these numbers because they can easily be tampered with (free wins from alts) and they could simply be records from "for fun" duels with friends or they could have been from the time before Charge was released or before Dynamic Combat (when PvP was more cheap than ever). To me the PvP record does not exist. Someone dueling me can be in a party and get clouded by his party mate and beat me but I wouldn't consider that he "won" the duel.
While stats, skills, equipment play a factor in doing good in PvP, you ought to first get a feel for which skill setup best suits you. I have faced lancers, 1h+Shields, 1h+Rebis, ninjas, gunslingers, pure alchemists, pure mages, and fighters that utilized their setups really well. Figure out which pair of sets fit your style. Know the behavior of other skills, learn to read what skills other duelists are using, and get a feel on what skills does what to you and to your opponent.
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Rengeki wrote on 2015-01-03 04:31
Quote from ironwoman;1259600:
This is exactly why I say "don't pvp"
Concept of tanking is laughable in Mabinogi. With that kind of equipment, you're not really going anywhere.
You're not making your point clear. How is that a valid reason for avoiding PvP?
What do you mean by "with that type of equipment"?
Perhaps i should have replied, "whatever gets you the most def and prot, excluding enchants. And that, enchants should primarily be damage modifiers"?
Or is that not the issue?
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drezzt wrote on 2015-01-03 05:23
Quote from Rengeki;1259623:
You're not making your point clear. How is that a valid reason for avoiding PvP?
What do you mean by "with that type of equipment"?
Perhaps i should have replied, "whatever gets you the most def and prot, excluding enchants. And that, enchants should primarily be damage modifiers"?
Or is that not the issue?
he means what Blass addressed: pvp doesn't help you accel in pve, which is really the basis of the game. In a game where pvp is a feasible reason for playing the game and simultaneously enjoyable, there must be a system in place that autobalances skills. Usually this comes in the form of having a PvE effect for a skill and having a different pvp effect, where the pvp effect is usually weaker, to balance the skills against one another. No such balancing system exists in mabinogi, and thus pvp is considered one of the weakest points of the game, and you might struggle a lot before you are able to have fun in pvp.
ironwoman says "with that type of equipment", referring to defense/ protection oriented gear, because defense and protection oriented gear is generally considered unviable in the meta of mabinogi. Most people gear for damage, following the mentality that something that is dead can't hurt you, though that is just an opinion; if you can draw aggro and tank minions so others have an easier time, go ahead, though that is complex with how aggro works in this game. But most people aim for a damage dealing ideal when it comes to pve, which is not exactly what you want in pvp.
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Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2015-01-03 05:44
Here is how PVP in Mabinogi usually goes.
Player 1 shoots Player 2 with arrow. Player 1 continues to shoot player 2 at a rate that makes it impossible for player 2 to even move, let alone fight back. Upon death, P1 hangs out around P2's corpse and shoots them again every time they stand up to kill them again while mocking them between shots. This can continue for up to an hour.
Here is how a duel in Mabinogi usually goes.
Player 1 has all r1 fighter skills and locks P2 into a combo instantly so P2 doesn't have a chance to move or fight back. P2 is dead before they can even realize what happened. Duel ends.
By the way, you will only manage to be Player 1 maybe 5% of the time. The rest of the time you're going to be Player 2.
So in short: Don't PVP. Don't Duel.
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Rengeki wrote on 2015-01-03 06:16
Quote from drezzt;1259629:
he means what Osay addressed: pvp doesn't help you accel in pve, which is really the basis of the game. In a game where pvp is a feasible reason for playing the game and simultaneously enjoyable, there must be a system in place that autobalances skills. Usually this comes in the form of having a PvE effect for a skill and having a different pvp effect, where the pvp effect is usually weaker, to balance the skills against one another. No such balancing system exists in mabinogi, and thus pvp is considered one of the weakest points of the game, and you might struggle a lot before you are able to have fun in pvp.
ironwoman says "with that type of equipment", referring to defense/ protection oriented gear, because defense and protection oriented gear is generally considered unviable in the meta of mabinogi. Most people gear for damage, following the mentality that something that is dead can't hurt you, though that is just an opinion; if you can draw aggro and tank minions so others have an easier time, go ahead, though that is complex with how aggro works in this game. But most people aim for a damage dealing ideal when it comes to pve, which is not exactly what you want in pvp.
1. PvP and PvE are two completely different monsters, so to speak. They are meant to be handled differently, so it isn't an issue that PvP doesn't help with PvE. I see it as something for competitive folks to enjoy.
I'm pretty sure that the basis of the game is just to do what's fun.
2. Who says that it
has to be the reason for playing the game? It is just something else to have fun with when you don't feel like PvE. I find it fun without an auto-balancing system and it was also partly my reason, so it can't be true that the game "must" need that system to enjoy PvP.
3. We're talking about PvP here, not PvE. The rest of your response is irrelevant.
You failed to answer why having high prot and def is a valid reason for avoiding for PvP.
To clarify, again, I only meant equipment wise, for prot and def. I wasn't referring to enchants or reforges.
--- Merged Double Post ---
Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1259633:
Here is how a duel in Mabinogi usually goes.
Player 1 has all r1 fighter skills and locks P2 into a combo instantly so P2 doesn't have a chance to move or fight back. P2 is dead before they can even realize what happened. Duel ends.
By the way, you will only manage to be Player 1 maybe 5% of the time. The rest of the time you're going to be Player 2.
So in short: Don't PVP. Don't Duel.
So what you're basically saying is, "if you don't know how to avoid getting trapped in a chain combo, then don't duel."
That argument is weak and for these reasons.
Skills like, Counter Attack and Defense exists.
Like any other game, duels won't last long if your fighting someone "OP" or if you just have low HP/defense/prot.
Not every single player is going to be able to finish someone off quickly in a low % duel.
Every duel doesn't end up like that. Maybe most of what YOU see does, but that does not mean the majority of them do.