[Mabinogi-KR] Renovation: Magic Update (Consolidated and Organized)

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Kentngo wrote on 2015-01-27 18:50

Quote from Kaeporo;1262898:
DevCat seems almost religiously opposed to equipment-based magic attack enchants, which is sort of odd. These new enchants render Used obsolete but it was hardly the reason people hit up the white dragon raid. Hopefully this will move people out of Dunbarton and into dungeons.

Pretty sure that the break-even point for magic was around 600 magic attack, depending on the spell.

298: Intelligence
80~104: Magic Attack 20/26 level
90: ALO Asuna the Meteor Strike Master
40: Arcane Foresight
7: Mana Hammer Homestead
34: Staff (Crafting Bonuses/Upgrades)
84: S6

At best you're looking at 573 magic attack sans S-Type upgrades, which means that S-Type is still superior to R-Type for magic weapons. Realistically, most people nearing end-game status will soft cap at around 525~550 post update.

Hypothetical pimp mage is running around with 653 magic attack (using a magic power potion), blasting fools with an R6 Lightning Rod that maxes out at just under 90k critical damage. The rest of us should expect to push out 22~50k in most shadow missions.

For Lightning Rod, you only need 295 Magic Attack for Red to be stronger than Blue if the magic coefficient that I'm completely guessing at is 10 - 12.

Icebolt: 454 Magic Attack
Firebolt: 415 Magic Attack
Lightning Bolt: 404 Magic Attack
Ice Spear: 483 Magic Attack
Fireball: 454 Magic Attack
Thunder: 464 Magic Attack
Hailstorm: 561 Magic Attack
Meteor Strike: 114 Magic Attack
Lightning Rod: 616 Magic Attack
Shockwave: 574 Magic Attack

Are the breakeven points.

EDIT: Updated to reflect that Magic Balance now caps at 100 instead of 80.
Jyu Viole Grace wrote on 2015-01-27 19:09

Quote from Kingofrunes;1263198:

I was going to guess by the test servers but then the actual repair price for the Celtic Royal Knight Sword threw me so off that I'm like well this can't be right...

If you're talking about 17k per point at 98%, that seems reasonable, since both the Pilgrim Blade and the Demonic Death Knight Swords are 17k-18k per point at 98%.
Kingofrunes wrote on 2015-01-27 19:11

Quote from Jyu Viole Grace;1263227:
If you're talking about 17k per point at 98%, that seems reasonable, since both the Pilgrim Blade and the Demonic Death Knight Swords are 17k-18k per point at 98%.

Talking about how in test it said it's repair rate was like 800 gold or something >.> Most other repair prices fell in the 50% range. Only thing I have to go by atm for repair rates is the test server as I can't seem to get these items on live due to low rank of skills, and how expensive they are. Plus I can't seem to find any on the market.

Basically I can't reliably pull the repair price of this. I got lucky with the Celtic Royal Knight Sword as I magically had it on KR live for some reason.

Shame it's not in the pack files, so easy finding this stuff out if it was in there but alas it's not.
Esileruf wrote on 2015-01-27 19:42

KR item simulator is tossing me these numbers:

Wand: 90/97/98% => 223/1788/2012 Gold
Druid: 90/97/98% => 866/6928/7938 Gold
Guardian: 90/97/98% => 596/4770/5505 Gold

The staves' costs seem almost okay, but the wand's HAS to be wrong. I'm flabbergasted by it having 60 bloody dura, 20 max base matk with a possibility for 31 matk with +20 from its artisan, but 2k repair cost at weiss?

[spoiler=OVER THE LINE]
[Image: http://i.imgur.com/81NE97Q.jpg]
[/spoiler]

Its likely base info from the test client for the wand though that was re-done though.
Kingofrunes wrote on 2015-01-27 20:09

Quote from Esileruf;1263235:
KR item simulator is tossing me these numbers:

Wand: 90/97/98% => 223/1788/2012 Gold
Druid: 90/97/98% => 866/6928/7938 Gold
Guardian: 90/97/98% => 596/4770/5505 Gold

The staves' costs seem almost okay, but the wand's HAS to be wrong. I'm flabbergasted by it having 60 bloody dura, 20 max base matk with a possibility for 31 matk with +20 from its artisan, but 2k repair cost at weiss?

[spoiler=OVER THE LINE]
[Image: http://i.imgur.com/81NE97Q.jpg]
[/spoiler]

Its likely base info from the test client for the wand though that was re-done though.

Ya that sounds like test values. Although the staff ones do seem accurate so maybe those are really live values and that wand is really cheap to repair O.o
Zeo wrote on 2015-01-27 22:03

To be honest, I was hoping the cheap repair for the Celtic Tri-Bolt wand will stay, considering it can get up to 60 duras, and the wand repair does not need to be expensive already.
Kaeporo wrote on 2015-01-27 22:38

Quote from Kentngo;1263226:
For Lightning Rod, you only need 295 Magic Attack for Red to be stronger than Blue if the magic coefficient that I'm completely guessing at is 10 - 12.

Icebolt: 510 Magic Attack
Firebolt: 427 Magic Attack
Lightning Bolt: 381 Magic Attack
Ice Spear: 449 Magic Attack
Fireball: 470 Magic Attack
Thunder: 401 Magic Attack
Meteor Strike: 94 Magic Attack

Are the breakeven points.

What about Hail Storm?

Even still, it would be pretty tough to hit some of those numbers without the magic attack from S-Type upgrades.
Zekkii wrote on 2015-01-27 23:40

Quote from Kentngo;1263226:
For Lightning Rod, you only need 295 Magic Attack for Red to be stronger than Blue if the magic coefficient that I'm completely guessing at is 10 - 12.

Icebolt: 510 Magic Attack
Firebolt: 427 Magic Attack
Lightning Bolt: 381 Magic Attack
Ice Spear: 449 Magic Attack
Fireball: 470 Magic Attack
Thunder: 401 Magic Attack
Meteor Strike: 94 Magic Attack

Are the breakeven points.

Care to show your work?
Kentngo wrote on 2015-01-28 01:10

Quote from Zekkii;1263259:
Care to show your work?

Red: 0.3 * (a + b * Magic Attack) + 2.12 * (x + y * Magic Attack) + 0.7 * (a + b * Magic Attack)

Blue: 0.3 * (a + b * [Magic Attack + 84]) + 1.5 * (x + y * [Magic Attack + 84]) + 0.7 * (a + b * [Magic Attack + 84])

For every spell

a = (MaxSpellBaseDamage - MinSpellBaseDamage) * 0.8
b = (MaxMagicCoefficient - MinMagicCoefficient) * 0.8
these two are to simulate 80% Spell Balance

x = MaxSpellBaseDamage
y = MaxMagicCoefficient
to get critical damage.

Then I set them equal to each other to find the breakeven.

If I got something wrong, feel free to yell at me. I'm currently writing a blog on

~*~*~* mabimath.tumblr.com *~*~*~

so any corrections would be good.

Shameless~ Plug~

As for Hailstorm...I'll get to that skill later.
Kelvas wrote on 2015-01-28 01:51

I got roughly the same numbers (Â±12) for a few of the spells I calculated, using a spreadsheet I made a while back. [S]The small differences are probably caused by my disregard for magic balance (which is capped at 50% I thought?). The only significant difference was Meteor Strike, which I got ~395 matk for R6>S6.

I'm having a bit of doubt about my meteor strike calculations though, considering that it's very different from any other spell, and that I disregard the DoT in calculation. [/S]
[S]http://i57.tinypic.com/n3vtpf.png[/S]
For Meteor Strike,

[Image: http://i59.tinypic.com/24zy874.png]

~115 MATK was my calculated breakpoint.

_____________________________________________________________
As for Lightning Rod, I got ~616 matk with r6 for r6 to roughly equal s6.

Given these following conditions:
1.5k int, 2x lv3 matk acc, matk 20 reforge on +23 hermit staff, r1 lightning mastery and LR, Meteor + ALO Asuna Title, using a fully charged LR of base 100% + 200% additional bonus.

[Image: http://i60.tinypic.com/1z48ym0.png]

I've come to the conclusion that there are not many mages that can actually make r6>s6 true for Lightning Rod.
Oberynn wrote on 2015-01-28 01:57

>these two are to simulate 80% Spell Balance
Didn't magic have 100% balance cap rather than 80 or has that changed? Some spells don't even have balance altogether, like Blaze which always seems to just hit for max. Critical damage also disregards balance.

Besides, Depending on spell there are also outside factors like max damage enchants, titles, reforges, character screen dmg+battlefield overture, etc that affect spell damage and make red more feasible before magic attack even comes into play.
Zekkii wrote on 2015-01-28 04:28

Quote from Kentngo;1263274:
~*~*~* mabimath.tumblr.com *~*~*~

so any corrections would be good.

Shameless~ Plug~

As for Hailstorm...I'll get to that skill later.

Your formulas are completely foreign to me, I wouldn't pay it mind but my numbers are severely different. I'll provide my work for comparison:

1. Removing common factors:
-all masteries and set effects are removed
-charge multiplier removed
-other similar multipliers removed
-balance is also ignored since the difference is negligible (0.128 * 0.7 * 0.2 * ((max-min)/max)

2. Programming basic formula:
-(base damage + (magic attack * coefficient)) * (0.7 + (0.3 * critical damage multiplier)

3. Substituting variables for constants (Thunder example)
-RED = (400 + (magic attack * 2.1) * (0.7 + (0.3 * 3.12))
-BLUE = (400 + ((magic attack + 84) * 2.1) * (0.7 + (0.3 * 2.5))

4. Substitute magic attack for x, enter into graphing calculator

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/DvO3jTT.png]

In this scenario, I calculated 464 to be the breakeven point for deciding whether to blue or red up for thunder.
Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-01-28 04:40

Quote from Kentngo;1263226:
For Lightning Rod, you only need 295 Magic Attack for Red to be stronger than Blue if the magic coefficient that I'm completely guessing at is 10 - 12.

Icebolt: 510 Magic Attack
Firebolt: 427 Magic Attack
Lightning Bolt: 381 Magic Attack
Ice Spear: 449 Magic Attack
Fireball: 470 Magic Attack
Thunder: 401 Magic Attack
Meteor Strike: 94 Magic Attack

Are the breakeven points.

Where's Shockwave's breakeven?
Kentngo wrote on 2015-01-28 16:55

Quote from Zekkii;1263290:
Your formulas are completely foreign to me, I wouldn't pay it mind but my numbers are severely different. I'll provide my work for comparison:

1. Removing common factors:
-all masteries and set effects are removed
-charge multiplier removed
-other similar multipliers removed
-balance is also ignored since the difference is negligible (0.128 * 0.7 * 0.2 * ((max-min)/max)

2. Programming basic formula:
-(base damage + (magic attack * coefficient)) * (0.7 + (0.3 * critical damage multiplier)

3. Substituting variables for constants (Thunder example)
-RED = (400 + (magic attack * 2.1) * (0.7 + (0.3 * 3.12))
-BLUE = (400 + ((magic attack + 84) * 2.1) * (0.7 + (0.3 * 2.5))

4. Substitute magic attack for x, enter into graphing calculator

[Image: http://i.imgur.com/DvO3jTT.png]

In this scenario, I calculated 464 to be the breakeven point for deciding whether to blue or red up for thunder.

Actually, yours is correct because magic balance caps at 100%.

Mine might be more practically correct on the sheer coincidence purely because of how magic balance works, but is still incorrect.

But yours is on the idea that you'll always average MaxDamage. 50% of the time, you'll hit MaxDamage, but the other 50% of the time, you'll hit less. If someone could find the average damage done at 100% Magic Balance, we could find actual practical damage.

And if it somehow ends up as 80% of max damage, I don't have to change my formulas.

Also, in my opinion, balance matters because it will heavily skew how crits work. Still, mine was completely off from the moment I assumed Magic Balance capped at 0.8

EDIT: Could I get an explanation on your magic balance so that I can see why it's negligible?

EDIT2: I forgot a set of parenthesis for lightning rod, I'm going to cry. During the other spells though, I left the parenthesis in, so any updated numbers I have are correct sans the Spell Balance

EDIT3: I updated the other numbers to reflect the 100% Spell Balance.

Icebolt: 454 Magic Attack
Firebolt: 415 Magic Attack
Lightning Bolt: 404 Magic Attack
Ice Spear: 483 Magic Attack
Fireball: 454 Magic Attack
Thunder: 464 Magic Attack
Hailstorm: 561 Magic Attack
Meteor Strike: 114 Magic Attack
Lightning Rod: 616 Magic Attack
Shockwave: 574 Magic Attack
Kendoza wrote on 2015-01-28 16:55

I'm not sure if this has been asked already but do we know exactly where the new materials for the wand/staves drop? All I've read is that they are in Shadow Missions/Dungeons but no specific ones have been made. Does that mean that drop from any of them? Or do no one know yet?

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