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Kapra wrote on 2015-03-10 22:32
Quote from DefinitelyNotTwin;1267469:
so ninja it's staying high priority for stats, but low on quality ? I hope not.
No clue, we'll have to wait and see. There's still a chance KR doesn't even get Ninja, though at this point I doubt it.
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DefinitelyNotTwin wrote on 2015-03-10 23:56
Quote from Kapra;1267473:
No clue, we'll have to wait and see. There's still a chance KR doesn't even get Ninja, though at this point I doubt it.
meh,I could careless for ninja atm, it's too cheesy (no offense to anyone who mains it). I'll only keep it for the gm title.
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koishi-sempai wrote on 2015-03-11 00:18
i'd actually prefer the reverse and have ninja deleted from NA and JP
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Kapra wrote on 2015-03-11 00:20
I haven't touched ninja since JP, but I don't really understand why everyone seems to hate ninja. A skillset based entirely on utility skills sounds lie a great idea (then again alchemy is meh). Can someone explain to me why they aren't satisfied with what Ninja is, other than not being a main-combat-talent? (I really don't think they should have advertised it like one.)
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Zeo wrote on 2015-03-11 00:40
I do like ninja and think its a good skillset...
My only concern about it like with gunslinger, puppetry, and fighter is that they might leave those skillset to collect the dust without any new skills to use.
I also don't agree with ninja being based off str/will, and would rather see it be dex/int or dex/will but that won't happens.
As for some people that want ninja removed out of NA and JP... It's not going to happen as well, lol.
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Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-03-11 00:46
Quote from Kapra;1267483:
I haven't touched ninja since JP, but I don't really understand why everyone seems to hate ninja. A skillset based entirely on utility skills sounds lie a great idea (then again alchemy is meh). Can someone explain to me why they aren't satisfied with what Ninja is, other than not being a main-combat-talent? (I really don't think they should have advertised it like one.)
Honestly, I don't see why people have a big beef with ninja. My only gripes are:
- Shuriken Charge requires a selected target and that target has to be in range. Clicking makes you normal attack, and tabbing doesn't reliably auto-target to what you want. Furthermore you can't prepare it until something goes into its range, and given the fast speed of most enemies you're bound to get hit before fully charging it.
- Smokescreen's primary feature is completely useless. -20 Defense means nothing. It's secondary feature of i-frames sees some merit but generally you shouldn't be getting hit at all.
- Aims at mob's center hitbox instead of their edge, including Smash. Even for a melee skill it's pretty problematic to stand under a Giant Spider, which has a very huge hitbox edge. Same applies to Explosive Kunai, when Giant Spider can just WALK OVER IT AND ATTACK.
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DefinitelyNotTwin wrote on 2015-03-11 00:50
Quote from koishi-sempai;1267482:
i'd actually prefer the reverse and have ninja deleted from NA and JP
there's still hope for ninja to be good, but this approach it's all wrong imo. ninja should be a mixture of melee and range. But melee should focus on speed and stealth, while range can be reliable but not overpowering archery in speed.
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Esileruf wrote on 2015-03-11 04:12
Quote from Darkboy132;1267485:
Honestly, I don't see why people have a big beef with ninja. My only gripes are:
- Aims at mob's center hitbox instead of their edge, including Smash. Even for a melee skill it's pretty problematic to stand under a Giant Spider, which has a very huge hitbox edge. Same applies to Explosive Kunai, when Giant Spider can just WALK OVER IT AND ATTACK.
I hope you realize why it does that, and that it could have been problematic to fix, due to how shoddy the coding is.
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Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-03-11 04:19
Quote from Esileruf;1267490:
I hope you realize why it does that, and that it could have been problematic to fix, due to how shoddy the coding is.
Um, IIRC Bullet Slide and Grapple Shot aim for the hitbox edge. If that works, then I don't see what's the problem with other distance skills.
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Estern wrote on 2015-03-11 04:30
Quote from ironwoman;1267445:
Speaking as a player that has an origin hailing from KR grounds, I'm pretty sure I'm able to give you more insight on the matter.
You won't see this attitude just from this game, or gaming ground for that matter. Like Mystickskye mentioned, there's lot more issues than historical issue. One another major issue is the politicial dispute, like the Dokdo/Takeshima debate and the East Sea/Sea of Japan debate, and I wish I could list more, but that would be too long of a list.
Either ways, Ninja getting protested is silly.
Well I'm Korean (fluent in it and all), so I don't need any explaining about the whole Japanese-Korean relations thing. I hear enough about it from the community around me.
I'm honestly just tired of people trying to attribute anything Asian to a deeper cause. Why can't we just say that the players have problem with content? We don't have to bring it back to politics, culture wars, Confucianism, or whatever. When Mabinogi allowed same-sex marriage in NA, some people thought that Nexon was acknowledging gay marriage as legitimate, but most people just thought of it as a convenient addition so you didn't have to worry about rebirthing as the opposite sex.
If people were saying xenophobic things on the forums, maybe I'd buy this argument, but it seems to me that on the KR boards, people don't want ninja just because they think it's a stupid idea. Plus they're going to think everything is stupid anyways, as they have been doing so since the advent of artisan rerolls. And their complaints have only gotten worse with gachapon and reforges.
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Jake wrote on 2015-03-11 04:34
Ninja is such a nice skillset to use when you play multiple talents at once, and it isn't strictly utility. You can push out big AoE dps and decent-ish single target burst dps with it. I don't understand the hate either.
[video=youtube;Jbj4jA31VbE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbj4jA31VbE[/video]
[video=youtube;76tpvjHyips]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76tpvjHyips[/video]
[video=youtube;kGUw5ayaqWQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGUw5ayaqWQ[/video]
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Mystickskye wrote on 2015-03-11 09:01
Quote from Estern;1267492:
xenophobic
Again, anti-Japanese sentiment isn't xenophobia and you won't necessarily see people come out and directly say "I don't like x because it's Japanese". Not saying that this is the sole definitive reason but it's very possible that it could be one of many reasons.
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Ryufujibayashi wrote on 2015-03-11 16:12
Quote from Mystickskye;1267502:
Again, anti-Japanese sentiment isn't xenophobia and you won't necessarily see people come out and directly say "I don't like x because it's Japanese". Not saying that this is the sole definitive reason but it's very possible that it could be one of many reasons.
They wouldn't say they don't like x because it's Japanese. They would say they don't like x because x is a theme or element of Japan's in which we have historical/political issues with. It happens all the time in Asia... heck even Japan does it to Korea... like with TV Tokyo showing Koreans in such a positive light which sparked too much protest. Korea is pretty vocal as well in their protests. However there is evidence to the contrary that they don't want ninja in Mabinogi such as they didn't want guns and scooters in the game, there's other Korean mmos that have ninja that had 0 issues getting the class such as Ragnarok. If we correlate that Koreans have a bad history with Japan, with Koreans not wanting ninja in a video game, therefore we can conclude Koreans don't want ninja in mabi because they have a bad history with Japan we commit post hoc ergo proper hoc.
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Rixx wrote on 2015-03-11 20:29
From what I've seen, here are the reasons why they don't want Ninja.
1. OMG It's Japanese! Why not something Korean?
2. Since when Ninja was part of Celtic myths?
3. Elf QQ.
The ratio of people for and against Ninja is approximately;
- 1:2 in fashion and chill communities (people report your post if you write something positive about Ninja)
- 1:1 in combat focused communities (those supporting Ninja outcast those against it by saying they're close minded, tells them to quit if they don't like it)
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Zeo wrote on 2015-03-11 23:48
Quote from Rixx;1267535:
From what I've seen, here are the reasons why they don't want Ninja.
1. OMG It's Japanese! Why not something Korean?
2. Since when Ninja was part of Celtic myths?
3. Elf QQ.
The ratio of people for and against Ninja is approximately;
- 1:2 in fashion and chill communities (people report your post if you write something positive about Ninja)
- 1:1 in combat focused communities (those supporting Ninja outcast those against it by saying they're close minded, tells them to quit if they don't like it)
Lol wow, guess KR players QQ over unreasonable things mostly... The only thing I can understand is the elves though because ninja is something that would make most sense logically for elves to be best with.
Mabinogi is loosely based off Celtic mythology, not tightly, and Europe is known to have ninjas as well.