Melee Renovation Q&A

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Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-04-16 06:38

Mabinogi's position is always arguable. I personally don't hate the game, there's a lot of lovable features but also despisable ones too. I've stayed around from G3 to G4, lost my former account, then started from scratch in G8 while being able to progress significantly faster than before.

It's my second MMORPG, it feels like home, even though it's being tarnished.

Quote from Kaeporo;1271192:
That being said, I am reminded of the Diva update which arguably reduced the importance of the "bard position" thanks to Singing and introduced the fucking awful Encore skill as well as the Treasure Hunter update which made everything sans lich sketching worse.

I'm unhappy that DevCat has once again missed the mark with this update but this update isn't a surprise to anyone; if nothing else, they've given us a reason to run dungeons.

When I saw the Q&A results, I was instantly reminded of when Vindictus said two of Lann's skills gave critical DAMAGE when it was actually critical CAP. It's honestly baffling as to how the players know the game better than the developers and publishers.

I know there's other examples but this one was the most recent for me.

Quote from k1nsoo;1271197:
How will they implement new weapons if crafting materials come from Alban Knight dungeon? 2 lost-light metal piece (I'm translating this based on how it is called in Korean) comes from Alban Knight dungeons and Borg said he does not plan to implement these new dungeon updates until later.

Dungeons have a huge chance (100%?) to give their mats. Not sure if it's only limited to Hardmode. However, Shadow Missions do too at a lower rate.

axe smash protection debuff OP

-3 Protection means nothing. Assuming that it's Protection Stat and not Effective Protection which IIRC Lance Piercing does now, that wouldn't even come close to 1% Effective Protection.
Twin wrote on 2015-04-16 08:47

Quote from Zeo;1271190:
The players with more experiences shouldn't be the only one to have the right to be entitled to their opinions... Everyone just have the same right and I played Mabinogi longer than Kaeporo or Tropa does and I think game is actually doing better for most parts compared to the past now.

But hey, each person have their own perspective on the game... It just annoy me that it seem like some of the players acted like they're better just because they have 'better experiences' with the game... No dense, Kaeporo, Tropa, and other players with similar opinions though...

Wait, I was replying about Tropa and Darkboy. No offense to Kaeporo, but how did he get into your example again?

So anyways. Without much knowledge about Mabi, you'd agree to buff smash too 500% > 700% Elf, 500% > 800% Human, and 600% > 900% Giant because you figured out Final Hit has 400% x2 damage every two swings, and attacks much faster? (That's NOT counting reforges, Two-handed buff and Thames boost)
That's what I mean about experience. You could play this game since G1 and not know what's being buffed too overkill level, which is how long I've been playing myself (had no interest in Mabi beta when I was on Maple). It's not acting better from ''better experiences'' It's seeing more clearly how ridiculous it is because it's completely unnecessary. Is this director's goal for everyone to solo MMA easier? seems like it's coming true so far.

People have their own perspective, even if some thinks my example would be a great idea for a actual buff. While were at it, I know someone who think giants need dual lance,giant only without any rebalances.

Also, Enlighten meh in which areas is better now. I'd like too see your examples.
Zeo wrote on 2015-04-16 10:00

Quote from Twin;1271220:
Wait, I was replying about Tropa and Darkboy. No offense to Kaeporo, but how did he get into your example again?

So anyways. Without much knowledge about Mabi, you'd agree to buff smash too 500% > 700% Elf, 500% > 800% Human, and 600% > 900% Giant because you figured out Final Hit has 400% x2 damage every two swings, and attacks much faster? (That's NOT counting reforges, Two-handed buff and Thames boost)
That's what I mean about experience. You could play this game since G1 and not know what's being buffed too overkill level, which is how long I've been playing myself (had no interest in Mabi beta when I was on Maple). It's not acting better from ''better experiences'' It's seeing more clearly how ridiculous it is because it's completely unnecessary. Is this director's goal for everyone to solo MMA easier? seems like it's coming true so far.

People have their own perspective, even if some thinks my example would be a great idea for a actual buff. While were at it, I know someone who think giants need dual lance,giant only without any rebalances.

Also, Enlighten meh in which areas is better now. I'd like too see your examples.

To be honest, I'm not too fond of some people being on rampant about being hyper-negative over game and game still don't have too much things to the point where it's unnecessary in my opinion, and I've stated that it's better to actually implement harder contents instead of nerfing everything down to oblivion.

Also... How is game is better pre-G9? I'm getting off topic now in this topic but if needed, we can take it to another topic in general.
Twin wrote on 2015-04-16 10:24

Quote from Zeo;1271226:
To be honest, I'm not too fond of some people being on rampant about being hyper-negative over game and game still don't have too much things to the point where it's unnecessary in my opinion, and I've stated that it's better to actually implement harder contents instead of nerfing everything down to oblivion.

Also... How is game is better pre-G9? I'm getting off topic now in this topic but if needed, we can take it to another topic in general.

You see it as plain nerfing, but I see it as nerfing and improving on its original concept.

And sure, link me to the other topic.
Slayerj wrote on 2015-04-16 11:45

I see no point in nerfing. You guys seriously need to realize that monsters have seen no love in the form of buffs or AI changes or anything in well over 3-4 freaking years. They have 0 idea how to deal with jack shit other than RUSH RUSH RUSH DEFEND DEFEND DEFEND SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT MAGE MAGE MAGE. At most some of them are reforge immune or a boss has new skills.

Dungeon monsters don't know how to do shit and can't take a hit.
Mission monsters don't really know how to do shit but can take a hit for the most part.
Abyss monsters don't know how to do shit but can take a hit.

It's always the same thing, beat the shit out of x number of mobs till x number of mobs dies. When you DO focus something like an archer, nothing is telling the other mobs to protect it in anyway. There's never (besides archers) a monster you NEED to group focus (Not counting ghasts. I don't count adv heavy normal spawning mobs as content *glares at peaca int*) to deal with other than an actual boss, and even then it's easy to over power because it's been fucking forever since they had any kind of buff, meanwhile we're riding the devcat buff train to fuckeverything town.

I'm not saying just always buff the mobs to fix things, but currently they need it. THEN we can focus on how things are balanced or how they aren't and how future stuff meshes in with what we have.
k1nsoo wrote on 2015-04-16 12:19

Quote from Darkboy132;1271202:
-3 Protection means nothing. Assuming that it's Protection Stat and not Effective Protection which IIRC Lance Piercing does now, that wouldn't even come close to 1% Effective Protection.

Whatever dude, it makes huge difference in VHM girgashiy :) We even use lvl5 prot reduction reforge too, hope that is not viewed useless!
Osayidan wrote on 2015-04-16 12:59

Buffing enemies left and right isn't a solution. It makes things a bit more entertaining for higher levels but deters lower levels from wanting to play current content. What's needed is new content that is hard, not making old content harder. Alban training dungeon is a good example.
Crhymez wrote on 2015-04-16 13:59

Im bit of a Mabi noob. Can someone please explain exactly what this renovation means for Races and Close Combat?

To me it seems like elves are getting the short end of the stick,
Humans are getting buffed to be stronger(closer to Giants). Also the ability to use weapons that were once giant only... does this mean soon Giants can wear all the cloths like humans do?
What exactly are giants getting? Stomp changes?

I have a strong feeling this game was and is designed for the human race... with the other two just an after thought. Please correct me if im wrong.. i am very new to this game.
Rydian wrote on 2015-04-16 14:43

Quote from Darkboy132;1271202:
It's honestly baffling as to how the players know the game better than the developers and publishers.
Well...

- The English text you're reading is not stuff from the developers. Hell, even the comments in the package files are mostly in Korean, and message references are full of typos and engrish.

- NA's job is to publish. This doesn't include playing the game in-depth. That would actually be a waste of time because it wouldn't change the outcome of pushing out the update to NA because NA can't fix major problems in the game. KR builds the client and related libraries and then sends them to NA. This is why it tends to take a while to get a fix for some things.

- Third, you've probably played Mabi longer than some Nexon employees have been Nexon employees. Not to mention programmer and developer changes over the years, some of which have been discussed here.

I almost never read these FAQs because expecting NA to make important changes to the game (not the cash shop or things NA actually controls) themselves based on our feedback and expecting in-depth answers from the developers is just... it's just not happening because it's not the right people being questioned and talked to, sadly.

The answers are pretty damned embarrassing though, don't get me wrong! They really need to pick somebody better to answer the questions, or do it as a group thing. Warframe does this sort of thing regularly and they actually pair their Liason up with a dev or two and an artist so that they can actually answer questions properly.

Quote from Osayidan;1271234:
Buffing enemies left and right isn't a solution. It makes things a bit more entertaining for higher levels but deters lower levels from wanting to play current content. What's needed is new content that is hard, not making old content harder. Alban training dungeon is a good example.
Agreed here. I see this problem a lot in online games where older, established players have beaten the game and get so obsessed with wanting more difficulty that they ask for or suggest things that would harm or unbalance the game in general.

... not to say that Mabi is balanced, but a lot of suggestions I see tend to be "I beat the game, now put everybody into newgame+ hardmode for me plz".

What we need is new, harder things. New harder dungeons, new high-level mission locations (where the entry level is equal to SM hardmode), etc. Though I swear to god, if "harder" means "Advanced Heavy Stander", dgjfsklhsfnhlfahadh.
Slayerj wrote on 2015-04-16 14:48

Quote from Osayidan;1271234:
Buffing enemies left and right isn't a solution. It makes things a bit more entertaining for higher levels but deters lower levels from wanting to play current content. What's needed is new content that is hard, not making old content harder. Alban training dungeon is a good example.

I said that continuously buffing them wasn't the idea, but if a character with VERY few skills ranked up can hit level 250, go into an HM dungeon, and clear it without a single death, something obviously needs to be changed.

New characters also aren't as weak as everyone seems to think. I have a new character that's not even over level 150 yet and I can 1-2 most mobs in Rundal with my low ranked smash or mag.

Was there challenge in the first 30 minutes of the game? Yes, a little. Was there as much an hour in? Nope. In that time I was able to get my talent skills, get a few small rank ups (up to C or B on a few skills) and suddenly start destroying dungeon mobs no problem. Solo'd good old Rundal without a hitch early on. Even Ciar normal's multi agro archer/melee gob combo wasn't any trouble.

Quote from Crhymez;1271236:
Im bit of a Mabi noob. Can someone please explain exactly what this renovation means for Races and Close Combat?

To me it seems like elves are getting the short end of the stick,
Humans are getting buffed to be stronger(closer to Giants). Also the ability to use weapons that were once giant only... does this mean soon Giants can wear all the cloths like humans do?
What exactly are giants getting? Stomp changes?

I have a strong feeling this game was and is designed for the human race... with the other two just an after thought. Please correct me if im wrong.. i am very new to this game.

You might want to check the foreign content section. They go into detail about each part of the 3 part update.

Also, from what we already know, no, humans are not getting old giant only weapons at all. That was QandA derp. What's happening is there are going to be 4 new 2h weapons, 2 blunts and 2 axes that ALL races can use. 2h blunts and axes were previously just giant only. Those are staying giant only, the new ones just work for all races.

The first update is for melee, heavily increasing close combat (axes, swords, blunts) with 2 new skills that can only work with those weapon types, and giving them a smash buff depending on the weapon type. So races that were already good at melee are getting a further buff via this, while the one race that wasn't is merely getting a small buff.

Though you are right. Humans were the main race and only race for a long time, then they threw in elf and giant because can. Not saying I don't like them. I love having something other than human to play.
Zeo wrote on 2015-04-16 16:18

Agreed here. I see this problem a lot in online games where older, established players have beaten the game and get so obsessed with wanting more difficulty that they ask for or suggest things that would harm or unbalance the game in general.

... not to say that Mabi is balanced, but a lot of suggestions I see tend to be "I beat the game, now put everybody into newgame+ hardmode for me plz".

What we need is new, harder things. New harder dungeons, new high-level mission locations (where the entry level is equal to SM hardmode), etc. Though I swear to god, if "harder" means "Advanced Heavy Stander", dgjfsklhsfnhlfahadh.

Pretty much what I was suggesting for a while now and several users still insist on nerfing everything down to oblivion.
Rydian wrote on 2015-04-16 16:30

Quote from Zeo;1271252:
Pretty much what I was suggesting for a while now and several users still insist on nerfing everything down to oblivion.
Hm, I do have to admit that there's a divide on whether new players think that the game is nice, or too hard to handle. Too much of a divide for it to be purely based on experience/skill, so it might depend on what a player tries as their starting combat type.
Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-04-16 18:15

Quote from k1nsoo;1271232:
Whatever dude, it makes huge difference in VHM girgashiy :) We even use lvl5 prot reduction reforge too, hope that is not viewed useless!

... This sounds completely like sarcasm... Not in the mood for stupid jokes.

Quote from Osayidan;1271234:
Buffing enemies left and right isn't a solution. It makes things a bit more entertaining for higher levels but deters lower levels from wanting to play current content. What's needed is new content that is hard, not making old content harder. Alban training dungeon is a good example.

Well, they COULD buff Hardmode dungeon mobs tremendously. They're a walk in the park now.

Quote from Slayerj;1271240:
New characters also aren't as weak as everyone seems to think. I have a new character that's not even over level 150 yet and I can 1-2 most mobs in Rundal with my low ranked smash or mag.

Was there challenge in the first 30 minutes of the game? Yes, a little. Was there as much an hour in? Nope. In that time I was able to get my talent skills, get a few small rank ups (up to C or B on a few skills) and suddenly start destroying dungeon mobs no problem. Solo'd good old Rundal without a hitch early on. Even Ciar normal's multi agro archer/melee gob combo wasn't any trouble.

... Were you using a beam sword...? Seriously there needs to be some way to prevent newbies from wielding them.

Quote from Crhymez;1271236:
Im bit of a Mabi noob. Can someone please explain exactly what this renovation means for Races and Close Combat?

To me it seems like elves are getting the short end of the stick,
Humans are getting buffed to be stronger(closer to Giants). Also the ability to use weapons that were once giant only... does this mean soon Giants can wear all the cloths like humans do?
What exactly are giants getting? Stomp changes?

I have a strong feeling this game was and is designed for the human race... with the other two just an after thought. Please correct me if im wrong.. i am very new to this game.

http://mabination.com/threads/83318-Mabinogi-KR-Renovation-Close-Combat-Updates-(Consolidated-and-Organized)

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/User:Infodude575/Sandbox#Renovation_-_Close_Combat

tl;dr Humans got overpowered tremendously, Elves got absolutely nothing, Giants got neglected in some areas, overall combat pace didn't change at all. New director is absolutely insane, throwing in overpowered skills here and there which can effectively replace existing skills that have been around for years.

And no, existing equipment wasn't modified. They just threw in some new two-handed blunt and axe weapons that can be wielded by humans and elves, but didn't bother making all other 2h weapons equippable by them.
Tropa wrote on 2015-04-16 18:33

Quote from Fracture;1271183:
Renovation is a step in the right direction

[Image: http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/images/9/93/Final_Hit.png]

Yeah man.

Q: Will there be anything in the update to encourage usage of real shields, as opposed to guard cylinders? Right now guard cylinders are pretty much all around better.
Heisenborg: Actually yes. So Defense has been updated so that if you have a Shield equipped and you're using the skill, you can still run while the skill is active. If you don't have a shield, you'll walk with Defense active.

...and you can do the exact same with a Guard Cylinder.
Trevor wrote on 2015-04-16 18:45

Honestly I don't see why some members are still here if they quit Mabinogi. Yes there are sections that aren't Mabinogi related but yet they still post in the Mabinogi related sections. Everyone has their right to an opinion but to keep spreading their negativity of "Mabinogi is dead' and "This game sucks" is just childish. If you are done with the game then you are done. No need to keep ragging on about the game, you are just wasting your breath because those who are still interested in the game will keep playing.

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