Thoughts on Renovation?

• Rynn wrote on 2015-06-12 17:05
  @mirage missile talk
  If you have ele reforge it's actually less dmg than ranged attack because it doesn't get ele reforge bonus.
  
  200% (elf range) with ele 6 is 311%, while mirage remains 200%.
• ironwoman wrote on 2015-06-12 17:15

  Quote from lack;1278123:

  They made it so that sword mastery will give 19 strenght instead of dexterity so you'll end up only getting 1 more dexterity than before.
  
  Saying that mirage missile is useless is like saying ranged attacks are useless. Mirage missile is pretty much a ranged attack with dot damage, because they both have 200% damage and as an archer i tend to use more ranged attacks than magnums. If 1 tick would do 700 damage, you could potentially deal up to more than 30k damage to 7 different targets. What about rafting? Shoot 1 mirage missile and just drink your cocktail. While hydra might give you more dot damage, mirage missile is faster and safer, because you can shoot it from anywhere and it only takes 1 second compared to going in the middle of a crowd, aggroing everyone and setting hydra up. It won't take much energy to just throw a mirage in your combo, something like ra + mirage + ra + mag or idk

  
  
  If you're really an archer, the most used skill should be magnum, not ranged attack.
  
  Regardless, if you want to talk about DOT and DPS, Crash Shot is better than Mirage Missile for that, even with its fairly lengthy cooldown. There's really only one combo that really matters, and it's Magnum Shot x 5, with maybe Crash Shot as the opener and Arrow Revolver as back up. And I'm saying this as a main archer, with nearly capped Dex, and well-equipped, I'm sure I know much more about archery than you do.
• Bunny wrote on 2015-06-12 17:44

  Quote from Rydian;1278128:

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/h9Os4nX.gif]

  
  

  
  
  So tldr; archery is still gonna stink as usual. I appreciate the dex though.
  
  

  Quote from ironwoman;1278151:

  And I'm saying this as a main archer, with nearly capped Dex, and well-equipped, I'm sure I know much more about archery than you do.

  
  
  Might want to watch your tone there.
  Also, cs + mag x 5 combo is pretty good, especially for NPC. I'm debating whether I should make a full mag card or a cs + mag x 5.
• abyssolar wrote on 2015-06-12 18:34

  Quote from Rydian;1278128:

  1 - Urgent Shot can push enemies out of range, Counterattack never will.

  
  But most of the time people don't shot enemy from max range, right? So I don't think that's really an issue.
  
  

  Quote from Rydian;1278128:

  2 - Urgent Shot is picky and there's various situations that will not allow you to use it (that you think should). For example if an enemy defends against some ranged skills other than a normal attack.

  
  I don't have that serious skill delay in my country.It's probably just the latency thing.
  
  https://youtu.be/hO0pNKiJgls?t=2m5s
  
  By the way I've also heard that there's some way for elf to reset urgent shot's cooldown. Google translate just not work that great for me, can't understand the details.
  http://www.mabinogi.pe.kr/bbs/zboard.php?id=report&no=29832
• Blissfulkill wrote on 2015-06-12 19:24

  Quote from Bunny;1278156:

  So tldr; archery is still gonna stink as usual. I appreciate the dex though.
  
  
  
  Might want to watch your tone there.
  Also, cs + mag x 5 combo is pretty good, especially for NPC. I'm debating whether I should make a full mag card or a cs + mag x 5.

  
  
  She called me a noob when I have 900 base dex and said I was not worthy to judge archery, as if her opinion was better than mine.
  
  My opinion was that archery stinks, especially without reforges.
  
  Though I have to agree that mirage missile stinks, especially with reforged magnum.
• ironwoman wrote on 2015-06-12 19:55
  Difference of standards. Also, I never called you a "noob", I said your dex and your gear isn't enough to make a judgement call on whether someone should pursue archery or not. If you want to go back all the way, it started when you started a thread in guide called "Guide to archery", in which you said people shouldn't, which is plain false.
  
  My standard is that you're in a place to talk about archery when you get at least 1k dex, as well as the gears to go along with it. You had neither, so by my standards, you're not in a place to make a credible judgement regarding archery. When it comes to archery, I'm sure I have better understanding of it than you do, and I don't mean it in a disrespectful way, and same for the other person.
  
  Enough of derailment. On topic, what do you guys think about the new Crossbow? Must get or nope?
• Blissfulkill wrote on 2015-06-12 20:08

  Quote from ironwoman;1278175:

  Difference of standards. Also, I never called you a "noob", I said your dex and your gear isn't enough to make a judgement call on whether someone should pursue archery or not. If you want to go back all the way, it started when you started a thread in guide called "Guide to archery", in which you said people shouldn't, which is plain false.
  
  My standard is that you're in a place to talk about archery when you get at least 1k dex, as well as the gears to go along with it. You had neither, so by my standards, you're not in a place to make a credible judgement regarding archery. When it comes to archery, I'm sure I have better understanding of it than you do, and I don't mean it in a disrespectful way, and same for the other person.
  
  Enough of derailment. On topic, what do you guys think about the new Crossbow? Must get or nope?

  
  
  100 dex is equal to 40 max damage. Is that really significant? Reforge archery more than makes up for that missing attack. I could just as easily throw a catering dish and get that so called life changing dex.
  
  And yes, I do have the gear, but I usually use less expensive gear, so that's where we judged. I never said I didn't have the gear. My standards were afterall, "crap att" or att with low level weaponry, which you still said was too low. You just assumed I have no gear for whatever asinine reason.
  
  In the end, it is my opinion. My mistake was telling people to not pursue archery, when I meant elven archery.
• Slayerj wrote on 2015-06-12 20:09

  Quote from ironwoman;1278175:

  
  
  Enough of derailment. On topic, what do you guys think about the new Crossbow? Must get or nope?

  
  
  Well...if it comes from the new dungeon 100% complete, I guess I can throw it at some people for free? Other wise, fuck that noise. Too busy watching a friend be very giddy over lightning rod. (Rare as all hell to see him actually happy and sound happy.)
  
  But in all seriousness, nah. Why really bother with them? Everyone is still going to be drooling over regular bows..for...some reason I still don't understand.
• Rynn wrote on 2015-06-12 20:35

  Quote from Slayerj;1278178:

  Everyone is still going to be drooling over regular bows..for...some reason I still don't understand.

  
  
  Campfire bonus, more range (aka faster mag/crash aiming), 15% final dmg + 30 max dmg arrow, more dmg from mastery, style points.
• Slayerj wrote on 2015-06-12 21:14

  Quote from Rynn;1278182:

  Campfire bonus, more range (aka faster mag/crash aiming), 15% final dmg + 30 max dmg arrow, more dmg from mastery, style points.

  
  
  UUUUUUUUUUUUUUH about that. Isn't longer range = slower aim speed? Xbows are shorter range, which most people use bows for anyway and faster aim speed typically.
  
  The few times my human has dabbled in range, I've used a x-bow, and I have to say I LOVE the aim speed. It ALMOST makes up for the constant missing.
  
  Edit: Last I checked, most Xbows have enough range to cover a SM room or dungeon room with it's range anyway...so most of the time with a bow, you're using the low to medium range anyway.
• ironwoman wrote on 2015-06-12 21:24
  No, longer range = faster aim speed.
  
  The new Crossbow will be the only viable Crossbow because of its range (300 shorter than Bhafel), which can be mitigated by having an elemental reforge and effective range reforge.
  
  But campfire bonus is nothing to ignore when it comes to Alban dungeon.
• JoeyDee9 wrote on 2015-06-12 22:03

  Quote from ironwoman;1278175:

  Enough of derailment. On topic, what do you guys think about the new Crossbow? Must get or nope?

  
  
  Trying to reforge my hunter right now and the new xbow just drops bhafel+huntress out of the water. If you want to go range this new xbow is going to be the staple weapon. Hell it out preforms Bhafel with sharp bolts.
  
  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17NBmGI7AGrKXZ5IPRx_ljRXzRq8X0XTMQGtTzmrshzo/edit
  
  Speaking of which, I wanna should have used a campfire for fun in wiz today since I haven't rolled ele yet.
• ironwoman wrote on 2015-06-12 22:13

  Quote from JoeyDee9;1278198:

  Trying to reforge my hunter right now and the new xbow just drops bhafel+huntress out of the water. If you want to go range this new xbow is going to be the staple weapon. Hell it out preforms Bhafel with sharp bolts.
  
  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17NBmGI7AGrKXZ5IPRx_ljRXzRq8X0XTMQGtTzmrshzo/edit
  
  Speaking of which, I wanna should have used a campfire for fun in wiz today since I haven't rolled ele yet.

  
  
  One thing to consider is the content in which elemental immunity actually matters, aka Alban.
  
  In Alban, Bhafel combo proves to be better thanks to campfire.
  
  In other contents, Crossbow will be more damage, but here are some choices to make, part of which why I actually like that devCat made this Crossbow.
  
  Are you gonna sacrifice more utility for more damage? Or vice versa?
  
  I'll end up making the Crossbow regardless, and probably use it where I can do good AoE with my guns. Bhafel combo for the more reserved archery, like in Alban.
• Rydian wrote on 2015-06-12 22:31

  Quote from Bunny;1278156:

  So tldr; archery is still gonna stink as usual. I appreciate the dex though.

  Urgent shot will be helpful and I'll enjoy having it in NA.
  
  But range has tons of issues and Urgent Shot doesn't fix them, that's what I'm trying to say.
  
  
  
  
  

  Quote from abyssolar;1278164:

  But most of the time people don't shot enemy from max range, right? So I don't think that's really an issue.

  An enemy outside your range is an enemy you cannot aim at, meaning you can make no progress until it's running back to you, at which point your aim caps at 90%.
  
  Whereas if it's pushed back but still in your range, you can aim past 90% for a higher chance of hitting it before it recovers and starts running.
  
  

  Quote from abyssolar;1278164:

  I don't have that serious skill delay in my country.It's probably just the latency thing.
  
  https://youtu.be/hO0pNKiJgls?t=2m5s

  The white message on screen is Urgent Shot telling me I can't use it, that's why it won't load in that gif.
  
  /data/local/code/skill.korea.txt
  UrgentShotUse.1 지금은 스킬을 사용할 수 없습니다.
  
  I know what Urgent Shot is supposed to do. I know what the intention was from the devs, and what the translated flavor text says. But I have used Urgent Shot, and it does not work the way people think it works, thus the gif and other media to highlight inconsistencies and issues.
  
  

  Quote from abyssolar;1278164:

  By the way I've also heard that there's some way for elf to reset urgent shot's cooldown. Google translate just not work that great for me, can't understand the details.
  http://www.mabinogi.pe.kr/bbs/zboard.php?id=report&no=29832

  Potentially, but I don't speak Korean and a bug should not be relied on to fix a problem.
  
  
  
  
  
  

  Quote from ironwoman;1278175:

  On topic, what do you guys think about the new Crossbow? Must get or nope?

  Which? I'll have to see what crossbow archery is like, if the reduced range is worth the mobility though.
• Rynn wrote on 2015-06-12 23:03

  Quote from JoeyDee9;1278198:

  Trying to reforge my hunter right now and the new xbow just drops bhafel+huntress out of the water. If you want to go range this new xbow is going to be the staple weapon. Hell it out preforms Bhafel with sharp bolts.
  
  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17NBmGI7AGrKXZ5IPRx_ljRXzRq8X0XTMQGtTzmrshzo/edit
  
  Speaking of which, I wanna should have used a campfire for fun in wiz today since I haven't rolled ele yet.

  
  
  Bow mastery gives more dmg than xbow mastery, lv 20 mag with bohemian is 805% not 715% (lv 26 is 874%), combo card bonus is not flat final dmg because it doesn't affect the 0.15x bonus dmg from bohemian.
  
  Bhafel is also Fast speed, so you can refire faster than Normal speed xbow for better DPS and will always have passive DPS advantage on top of that due to better aiming speed on magnum/crash unless you are literally at 0~170 range of an enemy.