Synthesis: Mechanics And Tests

• Rydian wrote on 2015-05-09 10:12
  The Synthesis database defines the following categories.
  
  [SPOILER="Item Categories"]0 "*"
  1 "/weapon/edged/steel/blade/"
  2 "/weapon/axe/|/weapon/blunt/"
  3 "/weapon/bow/|/weapon/crossbow/|/weapon/bow01/|/weapon/wand/|/weapon/knuckle/|/weapon/atlatl/"
  4 "/equip/armor/heavyarmor/"
  5 "/equip/armor/lightarmor/"
  6 "/equip/armor/cloth/|/equip/armor/agelimit_cloth/"
  7 "/equip/head/helmet/"
  8 "/equip/head/headgear/|/equip/head/agelimit_cloth/"
  9 "/equip/foot/armorboots/|equip/foot/agelimit_armorboots/"
  10 "/equip/foot/shoes/|equip/foot/agellimit_shoes/|equip/foot/agelimit_cloth/"
  11 "/equip/hand/gauntlet/|/equip/hand/agelimitgauntlet/"
  12 "/equip/hand/glove/|/equip/hand/agelimit_glove/|/equip/hand/bracelet/"
  13 "/equip/lefthand/shield/"
  14 "/material/compounding/herb/"
  15 "/usable/potion/"
  16 "/robe/|/agelimit_robe/" [/SPOILER]
  "Random" synthesis will generally pick an item from one of the above categories if (all/some of?) the input items have matching tags from that category. (So swords tend to make swords and so on as we already know.)
  
  If it decides to screw you over or the items don't match properly, it will pick from the list of potential random outcomes (the * list for type 0) which contains all the crap like Firewood and Small Green Gems people usually get... though the "random junk" list also contains things like the Spirit Weapon Restoration Potion.
  
  How come people never talk about getting that item from Synthesis? It's mainly because the item you get back out of synthesis depends on the price of the items you put in, and certain items only show up above certain price thresholds.
  
  For example, let's look at the Swords list (type 1).
  These are the possible sword results from Synthesis as of G13.
  
  [SPOILER="Sword Result List"]- 1 gold
  Wooden Stick
  Wooden Sword
  
  - 1.2K
  Scimitar
  Broadsword
  Cleaver
  Long Sword
  Fluted Short Sword
  Battle Short Sword
  Short Sword
  Dagger
  
  - 5.6K
  Hooked Cutlass
  Two-Handed Sword
  Vales Great Sword
  Gladius
  War Sword
  Great Sword
  Battle Sword
  Bastard Sword
  
  - 12K
  Executioner's Sword
  Claymore
  Hooked Cutlass
  Dustin Silver Knight Sword
  Dirk
  
  - 200K (no that's not a typo)
  Noble Sword
  Dragon Blade
  Dirk
  Sword of Beholder[/SPOILER]
  
  Now the question is... how does it determine the value of the input items?
  
  From synthing Gathering Knives a lot for training, I can already tell you that Wooden Blades and sticks and stuff tend to come out at the first price range (but no valuable weapons). So in order to test if the higher categories are correct, I synthed items from specific price ranges to see what the possible results I could get are.
  
  - Broadsword x3
  - 11250/1926 total, 3750/642 highest, 3750/642 average.
  Metallurgy Seive (Random, 800+)
  Broadsword (Swords, 1200+)
  Cleaver (Swords, 1200+)
  Broadsword (Swords, 1200+)
  Broadsword (Swords, 1200+)
  
  So it is indeed based on price and these categories do seem to apply.
  But is it the average of the buy price, or the total of the sale price?
  It could also be something else like the highest in the group of either.
  This time I used three items that cost >1.2K each but total for sale <1.2K.
  
  - Dagger x3
  - 4425/1023 total, 1475/341 highest, 1475/341 average.
  Dagger (Swords, 1200+)
  Wooden Stick (Swords, 1+)
  Elven Short Bow (Bow/Wand/Knuckle, 400+)
  Spiked Knuckle (Bow/Wand/Knuckle, 400+)
  Dagger (Swords, 1200+)
  Wooden Stick (Swords, 1+)
  
  So value is not based on total or average sale price (because we got 1200+).
  So it seems that the value is based on the NPC purchase price.
  
  Now is the purchase price averaged or does it work off of the most expensive?
  
  - Longsword + Gathering Knife x2
  - 2850 total, 2700 highest, 950 average.
  Wooden Stick (Swords, 1+)
  Wooden Stick (Swords, 1+)
  Wooden Stick (Swords, 1+)
  Wooden Blade (Swords, 1+)
  Wooden Stick (Swords, 1+)
  Wooden Stick (Swords, 1+)
  
  Suddenly back to crappy results because the average purchase price is below 1.2K, so it seems that the value for synthesis is the average original price of the source items. This means that if you want to synth a certain item, your average input item purchase price must be above a certain threshold, and you should try to synth items of the same type as your target output.
  
  Item purchase prices are attached to the item itself, they are NOT attached to the class ID! This means that if you buy a Gathering Axe from Nicca for 170 gold, that Gathering Axe has a "purchase price" of 170 gold. But if you go and buy a Gathering Axe from Elen for 160 gold, that specific Gathering Axe has a "purchase price" of 160 gold attached to the item data.
  
  Oldschool spirit weapon feeders may already know the above tidbit, but it's important to remember if you plan to synth specific items. Equipment dropped by mobs can vary from the norm as well in sale price due to lacking durability, so don't always judge based on the sale price as-dropped.
  
  Unfortunately the data I'm working off of is from G13 so some result items are missing (Broad Stick for example), and this testing and data gathering is taking effing ages so this is as far as I've gotten... but hopefully this helps clear up a lot of how random Synthesis works.
  
  Once the synthesis result and price threshhold data is finished being extracted (maybe tomorrow Idunno' I'm sleepy) the "Fixed X Synthesis" pages on the wiki can be re-written with the info learned.
  
  
  
  By the way, there's an Ancient Magic Powder fixed Synthesis recipe.
  [SPOILER="~"]- Elite Magic Powder
  - Holy Water (x2?)
  - Ancient Taming Cane
  - Mythril Ingot
  
  Too bad the base success rate starts at 5%.
  Also it's set not to activate until Generation 99.
  Please don't kill me, Devcat is a troll.[/SPOILER]
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-05-09 10:24

  Quote from Rydian;1274283:

  [SPOILER="~"]- Elite Magic Powder
  - Holy Water (x2?)
  - Ancient Taming Cane
  - Mythril Ingot
  
  Too bad the base success rate starts at 5%.
  Also it's set not to activate until Generation 99.
  Please don't kill me, Devcat is a troll.[/SPOILER]

  
  
  RIP powder value if that ever comes out.
• Osayidan wrote on 2015-05-09 12:54
  Generation 99, maybe my grandchildren will be synthing ancient powders.
• BecomeMeguca wrote on 2015-05-10 17:48
  ancient taming canes arent exactly common
• Rydian wrote on 2015-05-11 22:53
  'Cause people don't actively hunt them.
  
  
  So anyways I was putting the tables and info on the wiki, but then they deleted it all and told me not to edit it again. So since they don't want it, I figured you all could use the info more.
  
  
  So these are the three things I've determined to be true so far.
  And unfortunately due to point 3, more testing is needed.
  
  

  1. When synthesizing items together, if the synthesized items are of the same category (such as swords) there's a good chance to get an item back from that same category. However a different category can be chosen even if the input items match (because this is Mabi we're talking about).
     
     So if you want clothes or shoes as output, make sure you're sticking that stuff in. I'm not sure which tags matter, if you need to put a 2-hander in when aiming for a 2-hander, for example.
     
     
     
     
  2. Possible results have a minimum value to be obtained (the main thing that stopped people from getting a lot of the possible items previously). An item from a lower value bracket can always be chosen instead too (because this is Mabi).
     
     I previously assumed the value was the average of the NPC/purchase price of the input materials, but due to more testing I've done trying to skimp by on costs only to get crap returns, it seems the requirement might be the range of value for all input items. So sticking a dagger as the 3rd item to cheapen costs doesn't seem to work well, the game recognizes that one of the items is cheap and gives me a cheap result.
     
     
     
     
  3. If you synth three of the same item together, there's a chance to get a new copy of that same item back even if it's not normally a possible result from random synthing (or even if it's outside that price category).
     
     
     [Image: http://i.imgur.com/jjLVK8Y.gif]
     
     
     This may be what threw off some of my earlier testing. This also seems to be how the JP wing synthing incident worked, though I can't think of a use for it anymore.