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Kueh wrote on 2010-10-04 07:28
^ 1 second for every 7 int.
So 700 int is only 100 seconds. If someone got 2000 int, they would 5 extra minutes. I don't think you could get 2000 int, but just to work with it:
Time to pay for ap as well as the ap rank f made in the same time = [Ap cost of rank A + Ap made by rank F]/Ap per minute of Rank A with 2000 int
Time = x
x = [1430 + x*1/58]/45
x/45 = 1430 + x*1/58
x/45 - x/58 = 1430
x[1/45 - 1/58] = 1430
x = 1430/[1/45 - 1/58]
x = 1430/(13/2610)
x = (1430*2610)/13
x = 3732300/13
x = 287100
That's in minutes. It would be 200 days. Let me know if you want me to explain my steps.
That's also with 2000 int. I think you would already have a lot of AP if you have that much int.
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Sora wrote on 2010-10-04 07:38
Quote from Ruquion;174142:
Magic.
Rank F Medi = 1440/58.5 = ~24.62 AP/day
Rank E Medi = 1440/57.0= ~25.26 AP/day
Rank E Medi = 120 AP
Time needed for Rank E Medi to pay for itself = 120/(25.26 - 24.62) = ~187.5 days.
The way you do the math there, just wrong... what you did is simply find how long it would take if u gained only .64 AP per day. Where .64 is the difference of Rank F and E, for AP per day. When people say Meditation to pay for itself, they mean the skill, not the difference from Rank F-E. Stop trying to add simple math into an even a simpler question.
You gain 25.26 AP per day if you got rank E, so 5 days = 126 AP Acquired just from Meditation Skill. Refund acquired. Happy?
Edit: Lol, thanks for clearning that up whyrainfalls. Didn't see your post :P
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Ruquion wrote on 2010-10-04 08:36
Um... Hello? Opportunity cost?
In 5 days time, the amount of AP you can put into practical skills:
rF Meditation = 123 AP
rE Meditation = 126 - 120 = 6 AP
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theqoo wrote on 2010-10-04 08:43
Quote from Ruquion;175052:
Um... Hello? Opportunity cost?
In 5 days time, the amount of AP you can put into practical skills:
rF Meditation = 123 AP
rE Meditation = 126 - 120 = 6 AP
Exactly.
You
have to compare it with rank F.
If you spent 120 AP ranking up Meditation to E, then that 120 AP is gone, and cannot be used for other skills.
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Kueh wrote on 2010-10-04 15:39
Just to clarify:
"Paying for itself" means covering the initial cost of the rank. The 1430 AP. With rank A that's only 2 months.
"Being worth it" is a subjective term, so don't use it.
"Being efficient" means covering the initial cost of the rank as well as the ap that rank F made in the same amount of time. That added qualifier is why people are getting such astronomically high numbers. Because when you get more time to make up more ap using rank A, rank F is also gaining AP.
In other words, it takes a year for Rank A to "Catch up" to rank F.
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psyal wrote on 2010-10-04 16:04
Well, since I kinda don't care about getting things instantly, I'll probably rank this. Won't be too much of a benefit though, I must agree.
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Okitaru wrote on 2010-10-04 17:50
it's not going to be worth it at ALL if you hold off on touching it till way later, besides IMO theres not much to change enough in combat for me to look at and say, "USEFUL!MUSTRANKRANKRANKRANK!" like little to no differences, or something like, stone skin...
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Ruquion wrote on 2010-10-04 18:35
Quote from Whyrainfalls;175111:
Just to clarify:
"Paying for itself" means covering the initial cost of the rank. The 1430 AP. With rank A that's only 2 months.
"Being worth it" is a subjective term, so don't use it.
"Being efficient" means covering the initial cost of the rank as well as the ap that rank F made in the same amount of time. That added qualifier is why people are getting such astronomically high numbers. Because when you get more time to make up more ap using rank A, rank F is also gaining AP.
In other words, it takes a year for Rank A to "Catch up" to rank F.
Do you really have to be that nitpicky about the wording? <__<
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Kueh wrote on 2010-10-04 18:43
Yes.
A lot of people can't follow the math you pull out. And others don't understand the train of thought.
When explaining something to people who don't know what's going on, you have to be very precise with your words.
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Ruquion wrote on 2010-10-04 18:56
Quote from Whyrainfalls;175157:
A lot of people can't follow the math you pull out. And others don't understand the train of thought.
When explaining something to people who don't know what's going on, you have to be very precise with your words.
Well, I was assuming that everyone playing Vindictus is 18+ and is at least able to understand primary school level mathematics.
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Kueh wrote on 2010-10-04 18:58
You don't have to be 18 to play Vindictus, and you don't need to be good at math to pass primary school.
You don't even need to be good at math to get through college.
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eoneagle wrote on 2010-10-04 19:30
Quote from Whyrainfalls;175157:
Yes.
A lot of people can't follow the math you pull out. And others don't understand the train of thought.
When explaining something to people who don't know what's going on, you have to be very precise with your words.
I really thought that kinda math was common sense math O_O
And "paying for itself" generally means profit, not paying back the initial cost.
"Being efficient" means maximizing profit.
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Kueh wrote on 2010-10-04 19:40
Quote from eoneagle;175201:
And "paying for itself" generally means profit, not paying back the initial cost.
"Being efficient" means maximizing profit.
When you're done paying off the initial cost, you begin making profit. Or in other words, you can't make a profit until you pay back the initial cost. So paying off the initial cost and making profit occur at the same point and can be used interchangeably.
Maximizing profit requires having the maximum. Rank A won't have the maximum until it makes both the initial cost as well as the same AP that rank F made in the same amount of time. In other words, when rank A makes both the initial cost as well as the same AP that rank F made in the same amount of time, it will have maximized its profits. Thus, rank A will be efficient when it catches up to rank F.
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eoneagle wrote on 2010-10-04 19:49
Quote from Whyrainfalls;175204:
When you're done paying off the initial cost, you begin making profit. Or in other words, you can't make a profit until you pay back the initial cost. So paying off the initial cost and making profit occur at the same point and can be used interchangeably.
Maximizing profit requires having the maximum. Rank A won't have the maximum until it makes both the initial cost as well as the same AP that rank F made in the same amount of time. In other words, when rank A makes both the initial cost as well as the same AP that rank F made in the same amount of time, it will have maximized its profits. Thus, rank A will be efficient when it catches up to rank F.
"'Paying for itself' means covering the initial cost of the rank. The 1430 AP. With rank A that's only 2 months."
You just kinda proved yourself wrong :what:
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Kueh wrote on 2010-10-04 20:00
Go read my other posts.
I've been saying that Rank A pays for itself in two months.
Quote from Whyrainfalls;175111:
Just to clarify:
"Paying for itself" means covering the initial cost of the rank. The 1430 AP. With rank A that's only 2 months.
I've also been saying that there are two points of interest, when Rank A pays for itself, and when Rank A is efficient.
Red is Rank F; Green is Rank A; Y-axis is Ap earned by Meditation; X-axis is number of days.
[Image: http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g206/whyrainfalls/RankAvrankF-1.png]
You've made profit at ~50 days, in other words, Rank A has paid for itself. But you don't make MORE profit than rank F until ~400 days.
[Edit: I am not sure how I proved myself wrong.]