The Rise of "Unschooling" in America

• Laconicus wrote on 2010-04-26 03:43
  Geez, did I start a flame war just by saying that "I'm not too found of America"? I mean, it's not that I hate America; I never said that. @_@ I'm glad that I live in a developed country where I have the freedom to do whatever I want, it's just that I dislike it relative to other countries. If I had been able to choose where I was born I would have chosen somewhere like Canada, Australia, or England. This is getting off topic, if this discussion continues someone should make a new thread @_@
  
  I can see your guys' views too. Virtually every country I'm sure has had its dark points in history, I just feel that America's relatively short history has had few good points. American history goes as follows:
  1. We found our own country because we don't feel like paying a few taxes that we fairly should have payed to the British government.
  2. Age of slavery and expansion (which means genocide of native americans)
  3. Civil War, followed by a period with not much going on
  4. Industrial revolution, where people were made to work insane hours doing mundane tasks (to be fair I know that most European nations went through this)
  5. WW1, great depression, WW2, internationally illegal annexation of Hawaii -- it was realized as a singular entity ruled by its queen, and we promised that we wouldn't take them over. Until one day we just did.
  6. African Americans finally get all the rights that caucasians have
  7. Modern age, good in how the country is prosperous but bad in other cultural areas. I.e. how we sent soldiers to Vietnam to have them come back to be harassed by people against the war, and the rise of illegal drug use (which I'm quite sure Americans use a lot more than other developed countries)
  The point is that at almost every point in history America was doing something to deserve being disliked.
  
  I can't talk about people outside of my city, that's true, and it is pretty silly for me to think that everyone in the country is like everyone I've met. Perhaps "idiot" was the wrong word to use. No matter what you argue on the topic, it's going to be groundless. I've heard both good and bad statistics about the education system compared to other developed countries. Here's some from Wikipedia:
  

  The country has a reading literacy rate at 98% of the population over age 15, while ranking below average in science and mathematics understanding compared to other developed countries. In 2008, there was a 77% graduation rate from high school, below that of most developed countries.

  
  To be fair I know that there are also good statistics on the same page, but nonetheless the entire argument is based on opinion.
  
  It's also true what you say about opposition and looking at it from the perspectives of the people at the time. I'm a product of the modern era so I've been raised thinking that all races, sexes, etc. are equal. But since they were all raised being taught that Native Americans etc. are inferior, I can see why they'd treat them poorly, but not completely wipe them out. Anyways I don't approve of any of the racist things that have occurred in American history.
  
  As for food... I live in a capitalist country, dangit, I shouldn't have to grow my own food to know that it's real food. The FDA refuses to make genetically modified labels mandatory despite most other developed countries requiring them. I know that it's one of the lesser arguments but it's one that's more important to me.
• Chillax wrote on 2010-04-26 04:11
  There's always Farmer's Markets and Trader Joe's. If that's really a strong issue to you, maybe you should do some research before you buy something?
• MrShandavio wrote on 2010-04-26 04:46

  Geez, did I start a flame war just by saying that "I'm not too found of America"? I mean, it's not that I hate America; I never said that.

  
  
  I never flamed anyone. :P I'm simply informing you that your points are misguided and somewhat ignorant.
  
  

  If I had been able to choose where I was born I would have chosen somewhere like Canada, Australia, or England.

  
  
  Yeah, most people would. It's pretty natural to desire what you don't have, didn't have, or can't have. I think if you went somewhere else, you'd find it's pretty much the same - if not worse.
  
  As far as your list of major points in American history, the same could be done to any nation. I could do a little research and come up with a comparable low-point list for anywhere you name. The fact is, people came to America for many reasons (instead of the one you listed - there were also religious reasons), and did their best to create a new society. Can you imagine how things would be if America wasn't built the way it was? Government in Europe was extremely corrupt and unjust - the democratic way of things opened doors to create a better world.
  
  Other countries are just as racist, by the way. The thing is, like I said, most of them don't have enough diversity for it to affect day-to-day living. As of 2008 estimates, the US is 79% white, while England is 88% and Australia is 90%. Not to mention the prejudice against the Australian aboriginals.
  
  

  As for food... I live in a capitalist country, dangit, I shouldn't have to grow my own food to know that it's real food. The FDA refuses to make genetically modified labels mandatory despite most other developed countries requiring them. I know that it's one of the lesser arguments but it's one that's more important to me.

  
  
  You don't live in a capitalist country. You live in a socialist country. The selling and trading of food is a business; an industry. Without interference, it's capitalism. You're saying you want the government (FDA) to step in and manage things; thus creating socialism. This is the case now. I stand by my point - it's the price you pay for the convenience of doing it their way. But nobody's forcing you to.
• Virtue wrote on 2010-04-26 15:49

  Quote from MrShandavio;18838:

  Homeschooling all the way. If the parents are in a position where they're able to manage something like that, there's no better option. The impact of being close with your family is second to none... I was homeschooled for a few years in junior high with my brother, and that made our family very close. I also learned more in that time than the rest of my school years combined in public/private school. Homeschooled kids still use real curriculum and accredited sources and resources. And with the advent of more and more groups an co-ops, there's no excuse for being "anti-social".
  

  
  In the majority of cases, homeschooled kids still turn out to be people with less social skills than regular kids from spending way less time around their peers. Sure, they may not be "anti-social" with all the new groups and co-ops but I sincerely doubt they can pick up on all the non-verbal cues that non-homeschooled kids have learned from being around their peers every day.
  

  Quote from MrShandavio;18961:

  Vague/no ground to this claim

  
  Actually, there doesn't need to be a ground to that claim. It's a general truth that most people are idiots.
  

  Quote from MrShandavio;18961:

  America is one of the leaders in terms of education and literacy rates (it's not #1, but it's not bad). As far as American history, the same is true no matter where you are. Other country's schools teach American history a LOT. Because it's important. They don't teach the history of irrelevant minor countries for a reason. That's what college is for, if that's what interests you.

  
  While I agree that it's one of the leaders in terms of higher education, a lot of the secondary education is pretty bad. I don't think other country's schools teach American history a LOT. Where did you get that from? I know that in my country the only thing we really learned about American history was how it got founded etc, not that much. Just the things people should to know.
  

  Quote from MrShandavio;19045:

  Other countries are just as racist, by the way. The thing is, like I said, most of them don't have enough diversity for it to affect day-to-day living. As of 2008 estimates, the US is 79% white, while England is 88% and Australia is 90%. Not to mention the prejudice against the Australian aboriginals.

  
  Even if only 12% doesn't seem like much to you, it does affect day-to-day living enough that there are extreme right parties in every Western Europe country (as far as I know) that want the foreigners (mainly Muslims) out. And they're not just insignificant parties everywhere. Plus they're rising in popularity. Remember: The places on earth where people are most diligently killing one another are the most diverse, in terms of race or religion.
• MrShandavio wrote on 2010-04-26 16:10

  In the majority of cases, homeschooled kids still turn out to be people with less social skills than regular kids from spending way less time around their peers. Sure, they may not be "anti-social" with all the new groups and co-ops but I sincerely doubt they can pick up on all the non-verbal cues that non-homeschooled kids have learned from being around their peers every day.

  
  
  This is vague as hell and has no backing whatsoever. It's an opinion, and you can't generalize how people are.
  
  

  Actually, there doesn't need to be a ground to that claim. It's a general truth that most people are idiots.

  
  
  No, it's an opinion. An opinion you're free to have all you want, but when you're bashing a country, saying the people who live there are stupid is just a pathetic argument with no ground at all.
  
  

  While I agree that it's one of the leaders in terms of higher education, a lot of the secondary education is pretty bad. I don't think other country's schools teach American history a LOT. Where did you get that from? I know that in my country the only thing we really learned about American history was how it got founded etc, not that much. Just the things people should to know.

  
  
  Most of the people I know who live in other countries say they spend a good amount of time learning American history. I'm just saying, there's a reason it's taught, even if it's just the basics.
  
  

  Even if only 12% doesn't seem like much to you, it does affect day-to-day living enough that there are extreme right parties in every Western Europe country (as far as I know) that want the foreigners (mainly Muslims) out. And they're not just insignificant parties everywhere. Plus they're rising in popularity. Remember: The places on earth where people are most diligently killing one another are the most diverse, in terms of race or religion.

  
  
  Thanks, you just helped prove my point that other countries are just as, if not more so, racist than America.
• Athde wrote on 2010-04-26 16:14
  "History is written by the victor... History is full of liars."
  In regards to America... I'm not going to say I hate it... I just dislike how idiotic we are sometimes >.>
  1. We're the fattest country in the world(?)
  2. We don't really have a good rep for having the brightest leaders >.> *ocugh.Bush.cough.Obama.cough, cough.
  3. We get upset over the smallest insult.
• Juno wrote on 2010-04-26 16:26
  The social awkwardness stigma is going to be around for a while. There was a time when home-schoolers had far less interaction and therefore were socially awkward. Now, a few decades later, there are enough homeschoolers that those cases are but a minority but the stereotype remains. I don't really blame people since most are horribly ignorant about how it works as long as they don't insist on it after they become informed.
  
  While homeschooled kids may not pick up on certain non-verbal hints they probably have their own which public schooled kids wouldn't pick up on. Comparing the two is like apples and oranges.
• MrShandavio wrote on 2010-04-26 17:05

  1. We're the fattest country in the world(?)

  
  
  True. However, I don't see how it's relevant? Sure, obesity is unhealthy and at times disgusting, but I don't see the correlation of obesity to nation. According to 2002-03 data from OECD, USA is #1, but other places mentioned here (UK, Australia, etc.) rank in the top 10 as well. What about smoking? Smoking can be just as unhealthy as obesity, but nobody wants to compare those stats. From the same webpage, you can see that the USA is #28 in percentage of daily smokers.
  
  

  2. We don't really have a good rep for having the brightest leaders >.> *ocugh.Bush.cough.Obama.cough, cough.

  
  
  Lame. Both of those men have more education, experience, and probably more general intelligence than you and I combined. Their political decisions are very tough. Sure, they're not perfect - but it's not like it's one single person making every decision for the entire nation. There are boards and cabinets and other bodies of power that have a ton of influence on the political decisions made. Not to mention any decision made will displease SOMEBODY. So if you disagree with their political stance, that's fine - but don't knock the country's reputation because of that opinion.
  
  

  3. We get upset over the smallest insult.

  
  
  Again, this is too vague to even be argued.
  
  

  The social awkwardness stigma is going to be around for a while. There was a time when home-schoolers had far less interaction and therefore were socially awkward. Now, a few decades later, there are enough homeschoolers that those cases are but a minority but the stereotype remains. I don't really blame people since most are horribly ignorant about how it works as long as they don't insist on it after they become informed.

  
  
  QFT
• Virtue wrote on 2010-04-26 17:44

  Quote from MrShandavio;19265:

  This is vague as hell and has no backing whatsoever. It's an opinion, and you can't generalize how people are.

  
  Well, alright. There are opportunities for homeschooled kids to socialise, if they cease those opportunities. But they have to make more of an effort than regular kids to socialise. Let's keep it at that.
  

  Quote from MrShandavio;19265:

  No, it's an opinion. An opinion you're free to have all you want, but when you're bashing a country, saying the people who live there are stupid is just a pathetic argument with no ground at all.

  Eh, I'm not here to argue semantics with you. It depends largely on your definition of idiot.
  

  Quote from MrShandavio;19265:

  Most of the people I know who live in other countries say they spend a good amount of time learning American history. I'm just saying, there's a reason it's taught, even if it's just the basics.

  That's vague as hell and has no backing whatsoever.
  

  Quote from MrShandavio;19265:

  Thanks, you just helped prove my point that other countries are just as, if not more so, racist than America.

  You're welcome. That was my goal.
  

  Quote from Juno;19269:

  While homeschooled kids may not pick up on certain non-verbal hints they probably have their own which public schooled kids wouldn't pick up on. Comparing the two is like apples and oranges.

  Oh, okay then. There's no discussion to be had. Homeschooled kids are isolated from society. Society doesn't get them, they don't get society. All's well. When can we start sending anthropologists to study their primitive society?
• Mrlucky77 wrote on 2010-04-26 18:06
  I kinda dislike the SUPER PATRIOTIC community of America, as a lot of those people rant against much of the world's countries, except their own. Example:
  
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  1. Canada is cold.
  
  Real cold. Too cold for anyone sensible.
  
  But Canadians should prepare for warmer temperatures, since those Godless socialist pinko cowards will suffer an eternity in Hell.
  
  2. The metric system.
  
  Those Canadians practically invented this "metric" system bull****. Somehow it's like inches and feet, only it doesn't make any damn sense. And kilometers? Don't even get me started on those.
  
  Next thing you know they'll have metric months, metric dollar bills, and women will have metric breasts. Where will the madness end?
  
  3. Canada gained independence from England in 1982.
  
  1982! Can you believe that? Practically yesterday. We told those British popinjays to take a hike over 200 years before those lazy Canucks got around to it.
  
  And guess who still has the queen on their currency? I'll give you a hint: Canada.
  
  4. Rich people must pay for health care for lazy bums.
  
  Imagine being coerced into paying for health care for undserving lazy scaramouches who sit on the street corner day after day, chugging down a 40oz Mickeys before noon.
  
  Those cretins don't deserve a nickel, let alone expensive medical treatment paid for by wealthy, upstanding members of society.
  
  Fact: If you're poor, it's entirely your damn fault -- and you deserve a short miserable life of pain and suffering.
  
  5. They have oil.
  
  Come on, Canada. Give us your damn oil. Who do you think makes your cars, anyway? Manitoba isn't exactly Detroit, if you know what I mean.
  
  Don't make us go Iraq on your ass. We'll do it.
  
  I'm serious.
  
  6. They speak French.
  
  Okay, I know what you're going to say. "But O Wrinkly, only Canadians in Quebec speak French!"
  
  Well be that as it may, Canadians still write in French all over the damn place. Street signs, documents, businesses...
  
  If I ever saw a coffee shop with a sign that said "ferme" in the window instead of "closed," I'd blow that place up before those Satan-worshiping French terrorists spread their hate any further.
  
  7. Draft dodgers.
  
  And this is the big one. Where do you think those America-hating draft dodgers run off to when the going gets tough?
  
  You're damn right they go to that God-forsaken hellhole known as Canada. Look, we're making the world safe for you hippie clinchpoops, so show some damn respect.

• MrShandavio wrote on 2010-04-26 18:14

  Eh, I'm not here to argue semantics with you. It depends largely on your definition of idiot.

  
  
  As mentioned before, the USA has a 98% literacy rate. If you mean someone is an idiot because they can't read, then that claim would be mostly false. If you're saying an idiot is someone who acts strangely or has misinformed opinions, does stupid things regularly, etc., then every country is full of them. That's mankind for you. No one country is exclusive for housing "idiots".
  
  

  That's vague as hell and has no backing whatsoever.

  
  
  You asked me where I heard that. I'm not saying every student in every other country has in-depth American history courses. But, from what I've heard, it seems that it's a general thing. I was answering your question as to where I heard that.
• Virtue wrote on 2010-04-26 18:18

  Quote from MrShandavio;19316:

  As mentioned before, the USA has a 98% literacy rate. If you mean someone is an idiot because they can't read, then that claim would be mostly false. If you're saying an idiot is someone who acts strangely or has misinformed opinions, does stupid things regularly, etc., then every country is full of them. That's mankind for you. No one country is exclusive for housing "idiots".

  
  I never said America is the country with the idiots. You must be mixing me up with someone else.
  
  

  Quote from MrShandavio;19316:

  You asked me where I heard that. I'm not saying every student in every other country has in-depth American history courses. But, from what I've heard, it seems that it's a general thing. I was answering your question as to where I heard that.

  
  What foreign countries do learn something more than the basics of American history?
• MrShandavio wrote on 2010-04-26 18:22

  I never said America is the country with the idiots. You must be mixing me up with someone else.

  
  
  Eh, yeah. Looking back, I think it was Laconius and you defended his point or something.
  
  

  What foreign countries do learn something more than the basics of American history?

  
  
  Off the top of my head, from recent conversations, I know students in parts of Estonia learn a good amount of American history.
• Virtue wrote on 2010-04-26 18:34

  Quote from MrShandavio;19325:

  Eh, yeah. Looking back, I think it was Laconius and you defended his point or something.

  
  Meh, I guess you could say that, though I didn't defend his point that America is the land of idiots and retards.
  

  Quote from MrShandavio;19325:

  Off the top of my head, from recent conversations, I know students in parts of Estonia learn a good amount of American history.

  Fair enough.
  
  Cheers. Hope to see you around here.
• Athde wrote on 2010-04-26 19:05
  Politics Threads...
  The thread that has a lot of words per post and the only ones who really read it are the ones arguing or the ones interested in this kind of stuff(Not intended to offend just pointing out:XD:)