[KR test] Generation 14: Romeo and Juliet!

• Kenero wrote on 2010-12-10 03:10
  It is a wonder why Elves suffer harsher melee penalties than Giants with magic penalties.
  
  Mana can be made up easily as well as INT for Giants through enchants however an Elf's windmill damage is set to 200% as well as a longer loaded smash as well as damage penalties on counter.
  
  Giants just gets less MP from magic mastery and a bit more MP cost, but it isn't a direct skill damage nerf.
• Cide wrote on 2010-12-10 03:12

  Quote from Kenero;242993:

  It is a wonder why Elves suffer harsher melee penalties than Giants with magic penalties.
  
  Mana can be made up easily as well as INT for Giants through enchants however an Elf's windmill damage is set to 200% as well as a longer loaded smash as well as damage penalties on counter.
  
  Giants just gets less MP from magic mastery and a bit more MP cost, but it isn't a direct skill damage nerf.

  
  
  giants also have effectively no range capabilities.
• krpr wrote on 2010-12-10 03:15

  Quote from Kaon;242983:

  You forget elf smash load time is ridiculous lol. Can't do it.. but you can if you insert pet hitstun at the right timing.

  
  
  mhm, yea forgot that elves smash loading time is 2.5 instead of human 2. If wasn't for charge cooldown, smash>charge>smash>repeat would be epic win
  
  though as elf, you really need to be lagless to use this
• Zid wrote on 2010-12-10 03:17

  Quote from Kenero;242993:

  It is a wonder why Elves suffer harsher melee penalties than Giants with magic penalties.
  
  Mana can be made up easily as well as INT for Giants through enchants however an Elf's windmill damage is set to 200% as well as a longer loaded smash as well as damage penalties on counter.
  
  Giants just gets less MP from magic mastery and a bit more MP cost, but it isn't a direct skill damage nerf.

  
  
  There's not much disadvantages to Giant Magic, or Elf Magic's advantage for that matter. The differences are nearly insignificant endgame, much like Alchemy.
  
  Comparing Giant Ranged to Elf Melee, on the other hand...
• Aubog007 wrote on 2010-12-10 03:18

  Quote from Fracture;242833:

  ...

  
  
  
  
  Lances are intended to be slow and bulky. In all personal opinion. NO RACE should be able to RUN with a lance. A Lance is a Sturdy DEFENSIVE tool designed to be slow and PRECISE (Hence why they have high critical and defense/prot reductions)
  
  Having a STRICTLY Defensive tool being used as pure offense is broken. Simply put
  
  Giants should only get one thing. Defense or Mobility. NOT BOTH.
  
  And i've used the lances in the game and they are easy to pick up and use. and i was on a HUMAN.
  
  These lances have some very nice setup combos that can't be done with a 200-500 MS latency.
  
  EDIT: caps is for emphasis not exclamation.
• Taliya wrote on 2010-12-10 03:25
  Why shouldn't they? Not like giants have range. Think of this as their exclusive fighting style, except not so exclusive.
• woohoohelloppl wrote on 2010-12-10 03:29
  Christmas tree, anyone?
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/yy2tb.jpg]
• Kaon wrote on 2010-12-10 03:30

  Quote from Kenero;242993:

  It is a wonder why Elves suffer harsher melee penalties than Giants with magic penalties.
  
  Mana can be made up easily as well as INT for Giants through enchants however an Elf's windmill damage is set to 200% as well as a longer loaded smash as well as damage penalties on counter.
  
  Giants just gets less MP from magic mastery and a bit more MP cost, but it isn't a direct skill damage nerf.

  
  
  Probably to balance out how much better the range capabilities are. .5 second mag is like, the best thing ever. Arguably more useful for anything endgame than almost anything giants can do with melee.
  
  And honestly, the 50% less wm damage is far less of a cripple than lack of dual wield. At most it means I have to wm one more time. Elf Smash... is like human magnum. Both still work pretty damn well.
  
  And counter..... who uses counter?
  
  
  Anyway, kinda getting off topic.
  
  Was charge fully uncapped to 1? I kinda assumed, but I assumed that for music too and that wasn't the case.
• Fracture wrote on 2010-12-10 03:49

  Quote from Aubog007;243006:

  Lances are intended to be slow and bulky. In all personal opinion. NO RACE should be able to RUN with a lance. A Lance is a Sturdy DEFENSIVE tool designed to be slow and PRECISE (Hence why they have high critical and defense/prot reductions)
  
  Having a STRICTLY Defensive tool being used as pure offense is broken. Simply put
  
  Giants should only get one thing. Defense or Mobility. NOT BOTH.
  
  And i've used the lances in the game and they are easy to pick up and use. and i was on a HUMAN.
  
  These lances have some very nice setup combos that can't be done with a 200-500 MS latency.
  
  EDIT: caps is for emphasis not exclamation.

  
  
  Defensive. Yeah, right. A lance is meant for defensive use only against cavalry. Against anything else it is almost strictly offensive, which requires mobility. It also makes sense that defense cannot be used with it. Trying to bring a shield into position and using it effectively while wielding a bigass lance is ridiculous.
  
  Easy to pick up and use, yes, but still unwieldly. Try doing something you'd normally do solo with a regular weapon with a lance instead, and not just WM spamming.
  
  My latency in KR is roughly the same as it is in NA-- anywhere from 100-150.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2010-12-10 03:50

  Quote from Taliya;243020:

  Why shouldn't they? Not like giants have range. Think of this as their exclusive fighting style, except not so exclusive.

  
  
  The race differences are already big enough. This is making it bigger. Whether that's a good thing or not i will wait and see until it's actually put into the live servers. But as it stands now i would be willing to completely kill my human to make a giant because the gap between giant melee and human melee is going to be bigger than the gap between human range and elf range.
  
  That's how i view it.
  
  
  EDIT: the differences in MP cost for magic between the races does not qualify enough for one race to be better than the other in magic.
  
  
  EDIT to above. Most lances/spears typically carry a defensive shield like Phalanxes. (Still towards spears)
  Some mobile footmen in the Roman era used shields as well.
  
  Granted noone in their right mind would ever have such a big weapon like that without some defensive capability.
• User495 wrote on 2010-12-10 03:53
  irl even a shield can be used as an offensive weapon <-<
• Moppy wrote on 2010-12-10 03:54

  Quote from Sevian;243078:

  irl even a shield can be used as an offensive weapon <-<

  
  
  Anything can be used as a weapon in real life.
• User495 wrote on 2010-12-10 03:58

  Quote from Moppy;243081:

  Anything can be used as a weapon in real life.

  
  
  just directing it towards this
  
  

  Quote from Aubog007;243006:

  Lances are intended to be slow and bulky. In all personal opinion. NO RACE should be able to RUN with a lance. A Lance is a Sturdy DEFENSIVE tool designed to be slow and PRECISE (Hence why they have high critical and defense/prot reductions)
  
  Having a STRICTLY Defensive tool being used as pure offense is broken. Simply put
  
  Giants should only get one thing. Defense or Mobility. NOT BOTH.
  
  And i've used the lances in the game and they are easy to pick up and use. and i was on a HUMAN.
  
  These lances have some very nice setup combos that can't be done with a 200-500 MS latency.
  
  EDIT: caps is for emphasis not exclamation.

  
  
  also I would think MP matters ALOT to a mage seeing as otherwise you'd have to become very dependent on pots (INT though, maybe not as much, cause without MP you can't use magic anyways)
  
  but that's just me I guess, I'd much prefer not having to rely on potions in combat, is mostly why I went melee/giant
• Kaon wrote on 2010-12-10 03:58

  Quote from Aubog007;243073:

  The race differences are already big enough. This is making it bigger. Whether that's a good thing or not i will wait and see until it's actually put into the live servers. But as it stands now i would be willing to completely kill my human to make a giant because the gap between giant melee and human melee is going to be bigger than the gap between human range and elf range.
  
  That's how i view it.
  
  
  EDIT: the differences in MP cost for magic between the races does not qualify enough for one race to be better than the other in magic.
  
  
  EDIT to above. Most lances/spears typically carry a defensive shield like Phalanxes. (Still towards spears)
  Some mobile footmen in the Roman era used shields as well.

  
  
  Assuming lances have any real advantage over normal forms of melee. As far as I can see so far, they're just... different. How they compare in terms of one-hit potential, dps, and aoe mob clearing still isn't clear to me.
  
  You can totally just rank the skills for the stats and stick to traditional forms of melee.
  
  
  As for the defensive argument, yes, those spears were definitely used more defensively, but they were also built differently. And it's true as well that spears have been used on horseback.
  
  But it's not like what things have actually been used for are really limiting factors in creativity... Unless people actually fought with ice cream swords at some point I'm unaware of.
  
  
  

  Quote from Sevian;243084:

  just directing it towards this
  
  
  
  also I would think MP matters ALOT to a mage seeing as otherwise you'd have to become very dependent on pots (INT though, maybe not as much, cause without MP you can't use magic anyways)
  
  but that's just me I guess, I'd much prefer not having to rely on potions in combat, is mostly why I went melee/giant

  
  
  If you think about it, mana pool really doesn't change how much mana you use at all, just how often you can pot and how much you can at once.
• Kaon wrote on 2010-12-10 03:59

  Quote from Sevian;243084:

  just directing it towards this
  
  
  
  also I would think MP matters ALOT to a mage seeing as otherwise you'd have to become very dependent on pots (INT though, maybe not as much, cause without MP you can't use magic anyways)
  
  but that's just me I guess, I'd much prefer not having to rely on potions in combat, is mostly why I went melee/giant

  
  
  If you think about it, mana pool really doesn't change how much mana you use at all, just how often you can pot and how much you can at once.
  
  
  Edit: oop, double post, my bad o.e