Upgradeable, enchantable 2-handed wieldable by elves (A first?)

• krpr wrote on 2010-12-17 03:29
  i still want my paladin special skill like MM/FS and look, elves get more stuff D:
• NotAnElf wrote on 2010-12-17 03:29

  Quote from soheikitsune;250484:

  Not to drag this to death, but there were posts saying that those weapons were JP exclusive, but I am in the same boat as you. I'm not sure where. Or I dont care enough to look for it. What I am trying to say is that we are just players.
  
  There is no one from devCat here who can say for certain that a skill or weapon will NEVER be available to other countries.
  
  Of course, feel free to prove me wrong.

  
  
  I'm fairly certain it was a developer post.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-12-17 03:40

  Quote from NotAnElf;250487:

  And the load time on smash, terrible multiplier on windmill.

  
  
  fixed
• Zid wrote on 2010-12-17 03:48
  Ranged Giant as main character, go!
  
  One day Ranged Giants will show up all those Melee Elves and their hax speed...!
• Arsik wrote on 2010-12-17 03:55

  Quote from NotAnElf;250451:

  
  It didn't win the global one, so I doubt that.

  
  
  That sword was a winner from last year's design contest, in which the NA servers didn't hold. It's in the same class as the Dragon Patterned Robes, Emerald's Celtic Wear, Mabinogi School Uniform, etc. So the whole "it's not a Global winner" excuse isn't valid.
  
  

  Quote from NotAnElf;250451:

  Elves still didn't get the elf chinese dragon armor helmet.

  
  
  And that's devCAT's fault how? I could have sworn it was from the negligence of NexonNA.
  
  

  Quote from NotAnElf;250451:

  Giants are OP as hell.

  
  
  How so? Sure, Giants have great melee damage and the highest damaging skill in the game, but aside from that, that's about it. We have 2 non-magic/alchemy range attacks. One that barely reaches past R1 WM range, and one that has a ridiculous cooldown time. Our magic is gimped. Sure, we can still make some pretty nice mages, but we're still missing out on 24MP and all of our magic skills have an increased mana usage, which doesn't help the reduced MP. Alchemy is probably more friendly for Giants, only because Giants have more skills that increase SP, but other than that, there's no difference. So if we're dealing with enemies with MR3 and NS3, then we are great, but if we run into that enemy with HS3, then unless we individually ranked non-melee skills, we are boned and have to depend on others to fight for us.
  
  

  Quote from NotAnElf;250451:

  Elves have a crappy melee attack

  
  
  But it's nowhere near as bad as Giant range skills. You may have to spend an extra second compared to Giants to load Smash, or have a slightly weaker WM, but since Elves are fast, as long as they're not fighting animal mobs, then they can out run most enemies to load another Smash and wait until the mob starts loading a skill. A critical WM can still take out a good number of enemies. Can't say the same for Giant range. We can do one devastating attack (if we have those Jousting Javelins) twice a minute, or we can drain our SP to stun lock enemies. I don't see how you can really compare Elf melee to Giant range. Elf melee to Giant magic would be okay, since that's about equal, but Elf melee to Giant range isn't even in the same league as each other.
  
  

  Quote from NotAnElf;250451:

  Magic was originally designed with a crappy int damage formula.

  
  Can't argue with that.
  
  

  Quote from NotAnElf;250451:

  Impractical Using that logic elves should be able to use tailltean two handed
  
  Both items are terrible, aren't very costly, and there's a wiki for this.

  
  Fair enough.
  
  

  Quote from NotAnElf;250451:

  I don't see what melee oriented has to do with having armor variety. Which has yet to be released, which is limited time, meaning there's a limited supply, meaning eventually there will be none.

  
  
  Quite simple. When you think of melee, what do you think of? Isn't it usually people wearing armor standing in the front lines, without fear of the enemy onslaught? Sure, this game ain't meant for you to get hit, but I'd still rather have that little bit of buffer for that just in case moment. If you're range, then you don't need armor as much, since unless you get really unlucky and miss every attack, you can get a second shot at stunning the enemy to get back into rhythm.
  
  

  Quote from NotAnElf;250451:

  That doesn't really say anything, there used to be an Elf AR in the skill data. It might still be there, I haven't checked package data in a while.

  
  
  Was there actually a skill in the data that let Elves learn AR on their own, or is this based on the rumor about how JP Mabi allowed cross-race rebirthing? Because I'm fairly sure that was debunked before, but I could be wrong on this.
  
  

  Quote from NotAnElf;250451:

  That wasn't a nerf. It's not practical to use now, but before it was pointless.

  
  
  No, before it was incredibly weak, but it was still useful enough for me to pull out incase I ran into that monster with HS3. With a large SP pool and a small MP pool, I think it would be more practical to use javelins compared to bolts. Same damage output pretty much, but cheaper in the long run for the javelins. Now, it's just a nuke move, and then playing the waiting game until you can use it again.
  
  
  There's my rebuttal, and please don't doublepost. These aren't the Nexon Forums, we do have an edit button that works.
• NotAnElf wrote on 2010-12-17 04:30

  Quote from Cruril;250543:

  That sword was a winner from last year's design contest, in which the NA servers didn't hold. It's in the same class as the Dragon Patterned Robes, Emerald's Celtic Wear, Mabinogi School Uniform, etc. So the whole "it's not a Global winner" excuse isn't valid.

  
  We don't get every design contest winner
  

  
  
  [quote]
  And that's devCAT's fault how? I could have sworn it was from the negligence of NexonNA.

  
  Fair point.
  
  
  

  
  How so? Sure, Giants have great melee damage and the highest damaging skill in the game, but aside from that, that's about it. We have 2 non-magic/alchemy range attacks. One that barely reaches past R1 WM range, and one that has a ridiculous cooldown time. Our magic is gimped. Sure, we can still make some pretty nice mages, but we're still missing out on 24MP and all of our magic skills have an increased mana usage, which doesn't help the reduced MP. Alchemy is probably more friendly for Giants, only because Giants have more skills that increase SP, but other than that, there's no difference. So if we're dealing with enemies with MR3 and NS3, then we are great, but if we run into that enemy with HS3, then unless we individually ranked non-melee skills, we are boned and have to depend on others to fight for us.

  Giants can solo almost anything faster than any other race.
  24 MP isn't ...much?
  How often do you run into something with HS3?
  
  
  

  
  But it's nowhere near as bad as Giant range skills. You may have to spend an extra second compared to Giants to load Smash, or have a slightly weaker WM, but since Elves are fast, as long as they're not fighting animal mobs, then they can out run most enemies to load another Smash and wait until the mob starts loading a skill.

  That is so fast and practical.
  

  A critical WM can still take out a good number of enemies. Can't say the same for Giant range. We can do one devastating attack (if we have those Jousting Javelins) twice a minute, or we can drain our SP to stun lock enemies. I don't see how you can really compare Elf melee to Giant range. Elf melee to Giant magic would be okay, since that's about equal, but Elf melee to Giant range isn't even in the same league as each other.

  
  I didn't compare it. I said elf has terrible melee.
  
  
  

  Quite simple. When you think of melee, what do you think of? Isn't it usually people wearing armor standing in the front lines, without fear of the enemy onslaught? Sure, this game ain't meant for you to get hit, but I'd still rather have that little bit of buffer for that just in case moment. If you're range, then you don't need armor as much, since unless you get really unlucky and miss every attack, you can get a second shot at stunning the enemy to get back into rhythm.

  If that's the case, then elves getting heavy armor shouldn't even matter.
  
  

  
  
  Was there actually a skill in the data that let Elves learn AR on their own, or is this based on the rumor about how JP Mabi allowed cross-race rebirthing? Because I'm fairly sure that was debunked before, but I could be wrong on this.
  
  

  There was, in the package.
  I was browsing through it trying to edit and break my game )=
  

  
  
  No, before it was incredibly weak, but it was still useful enough for me to pull out incase I ran into that monster with HS3. With a large SP pool and a small MP pool, I think it would be more practical to use javelins compared to bolts. Same damage output pretty much, but cheaper in the long run for the javelins. Now, it's just a nuke move, and then playing the waiting game until you can use it again.

  What would you run into with HS3, that it was practical to use throwing attack on pre-nerf/buff?
  
  

  
  There's my rebuttal, and please don't doublepost. These aren't the Nexon Forums, we do have an edit button that works.

  
  My bad.
• Justified wrote on 2010-12-17 04:35

  Quote from NotAnElf;250437:

  Being end-game means nothing. Wave sweeper is rare as hell, getting an S is even rarer.
  You can have all the money in the world, but if the game still might not give it to you/anyone else.

  
  
  I disagree. If you're endgame then you have the ability to farm/buy what you want.
  
  Wave Sweeper may be rare as hell, but my group got two in a row running with 6 people. Obviously if somebody really wanted one, they'd get it eventually. There's nothing in Mabi that has extremely low drop rates, some other games go well below 0.01%.
• NotAnElf wrote on 2010-12-17 04:40

  Quote from Justified;250616:

  I disagree. If you're endgame then you have the ability to farm/buy what you want.
  
  Wave Sweeper may be rare as hell, but my group got two in a row running with 6 people. Obviously if somebody really wanted one, they'd get it eventually. There's nothing in Mabi that has extremely low drop rates, some other games go well below 0.01%.

  I've ran with a group of 7over 60 times, only one wave sweeper dropped.
  I think it's impractical talking about an S rank demi-item, especially wave sweeper.
• Arsik wrote on 2010-12-17 04:46

  Quote from NotAnElf;250601:

  Giants can solo almost anything faster than any other race.
  24 MP isn't ...much?
  How often do you run into something with HS3?

  
  
  I'm sure the Wights in Peaca are the first thing that come to mind, since they get stunned from Throw Attack. Fireflies will need either Throwing Attack or magic, but either way isn't great to use since they have both NS2 and MR2. Red Ghasts also need something other melee to fight, and with their 300+ defense, it would probably be wiser to use Stomp, though either way, the Giant is probably dead if they don't have an Int Magic like IS to use (which uses 40MP per cast, mind you).
  
  
  

  Quote from NotAnElf;250601:

  That is so fast and practical.

  
  
  Faster than waiting for the Throwing Attack cooldown. :V
  
  

  Quote from NotAnElf;250601:

  I didn't compare it. I said elf has terrible melee.

  
  
  But you quoted me saying that Giants have a crappy range attack, meaning that you were in fact comparing Elf melee with Giant range.
  
  
  

  Quote from NotAnElf;250601:

  If that's the case, then elves getting heavy armor shouldn't even matter.

  
  
  Meh, while it is just a game, it's more along the lines of devCAT going back on what they already established for Elves just because they can.
• Kaon wrote on 2010-12-17 04:55

  Quote from NotAnElf;250487:

  And the load time on smash, terrible multiplier on windmill, lack of melee enchants.

  
  
  Lack of melee enchants? lol The absolute best melee enchant setup is perfectly race universal. Smash load time is fairly easy to get around...charge > smash still works which makes it easy to use. Pets make it even easier.
  
  Windmill multiplier... nearly meaningless compared to not having dual wield.
  
  The only thing elves lack for not only viable, but even comparable melee to humans is dual wield. And even without they can still be pretty decent.
  
  http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7207/elfmelee.png /posted this before.
  
  >.>
  
  Giants get the short end of the stick for viability hands down.
• NotAnElf wrote on 2010-12-17 04:55

  Quote from Cruril;250634:

  I'm sure the Wights in Peaca are the first thing that come to mind, since they get stunned from Throw Attack. Fireflies will need either Throwing Attack or magic, but either way isn't great to use since they have both NS2 and MR2. Red Ghasts also need something other melee to fight, and with their 300+ defense, it would probably be wiser to use Stomp, though either way, the Giant is probably dead if they don't have an Int Magic like IS to use (which uses 40MP per cast, mind you).

  Using pre-nerf/buff isn't practical there, the damage is so terrible.
  
  
  
  

  
  Faster than waiting for the Throwing Attack cooldown. :V

  Throwing attack->bolts seems faster than before.
  
  
  

  
  But you quoted me saying that Giants have a crappy range attack, meaning that you were in fact comparing Elf melee with Giant range.

  No, i stated the elves fault.
  Crappy melee.
  
  
  
  

  
  Meh, while it is just a game, it's more along the lines of devCAT going back on what they already established for Elves just because they can.

  They didn't really say they couldn't, they just never gave them heavy armor before
  
  
  

  Quote from Kaon;250650:

  Lack of melee enchants? lol The absolute best melee enchant setup is perfectly race universal. Smash load time is fairly easy to get around...charge > smash still works which makes it easy to use. Pets make it even easier.
  
  Windmill multiplier... nearly meaningless compared to not having dual wield.
  
  The only thing elves lack for not only viable, but even comparable melee to humans is dual wield. And even without they can still be pretty decent.
  
  http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7207/elfmelee.png /posted this before.
  
  >.>
  
  Giants get the short end of the stick for viability hands down.

  
  All I had in mind was alteration, i was just assuming there were more.
  
  Charge->Smash only works with good latency for elves
• Justified wrote on 2010-12-17 05:05

  Quote from NotAnElf;250626:

  I've ran with a group of 7over 60 times, only one wave sweeper dropped.
  I think it's impractical talking about an S rank demi-item, especially wave sweeper.

  
  
  That's my point. You're saying you only got one Wave Sweeper in 60 runs. That means your group got one. If you could get one, why couldn't an endgame player?
  
  There's also the alternative method that an endgame player could do. "Buying S-Rank Wave Sweeper, 10mil"
• Kaon wrote on 2010-12-17 05:10

  Quote from NotAnElf;250651:

  
  All I had in mind was alteration, i was just assuming there were more.

  
  
  Oh I'd love to have alteration but, comparatively it's a fairly small difference. Humans can't use that either.
  Still it's pretty bad to base an argument off an assumption from seeing one enchant.
  
  
  
  On an unrelated note.... why does everyone think it's a big deal that we get heavy armor for elves.... they're the worst setup for damage (compared to light armor + acc or clothes + two accs)
  I guess could make a tank setup...? But in end game dungeons prot is better and you can make better prot setups with light armor + acc or clothes + two accs.
  Unless they have ping (which I'm under the impression they don't, but I don't know for sure) then they'd be nice for pvp... but that's it.
  
  It's a novelty, doesn't change the game balance at all.. heavy armor sucks.
  
  As for the two hand sword, even with enchants and upgrades... still not damage that couldn't have been accomplished previously with a nice ego. Sure, the fact that it's a two hand (and so get +100% on smash) makes the damage output a little easier but..... none of this changes the game at all lol.
  The best enchants for two hand require giant sided or FH ranked anyway.
  
  
  
  And for charge... yes it takes good latency but still doable... and even with bad latency still doable on a large amount of mobs... just not pvp lol.
• jking012 wrote on 2010-12-17 05:50

  Quote from NotAnElf;250134:

  No, dual wielding crossbows.
  Or bowguns.
  Or a ballista
  )= <

  
  
  http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Arbalest
  >.>
• NotAnElf wrote on 2010-12-17 13:21

  Quote from Justified;250666:

  That's my point. You're saying you only got one Wave Sweeper in 60 runs. That means your group got one. If you could get one, why couldn't an endgame player?
  
  There's also the alternative method that an endgame player could do. "Buying S-Rank Wave Sweeper, 10mil"

  
  Because the chance of getting one is low
  The chance of restoring is low
  The chance of getting an S rank is even lower
  I'm not saying it's impossible, just even with the cash, improbable.
  
  

  Quote from jking012;250717:

  http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Arbalest
  >.>

  
  
  Wow, that's totally a bowgun, dual crossbow, or ballista! 0:
  
  
  

  Quote from Kaon;250674:

  Oh I'd love to have alteration but, comparatively it's a fairly small difference. Humans can't use that either.
  Still it's pretty bad to base an argument off an assumption from seeing one enchant.
  

  Yes..they can? If they use a shield.

  Alteration
  (edit) Shields -15 Stamina
  +20 Str if Spirit of Order Rank A+
  -10 Dex
  +60% Repair Cost
  +15-25 Str if Daemon of Physis Rank A+
  +15-25 Str if Soul of Chaos Rank A+

  
  And yes, it is a bad argument. I tried to wing it >:(
  
  

  
  
  And for charge... yes it takes good latency but still doable... and even with bad latency still doable on a large amount of mobs... just not pvp lol.

  
  I always get raped when I try.