"Dont ask dont tell."

• Lan wrote on 2010-12-19 03:13
  Everyone has their reasons and motivations, their fears and things they are uncomfortable with. They can try to change it but sometimes they can't and you sometimes you should respect it. I for one have an irrational fear of getting fat and fat people, I do not know the reason but just because I fear them does that make me a bad person? Not really, though I am a bad person.
• paladin wrote on 2010-12-19 03:23
  I perfer that policy stay in place
  All that matters to the military is your performance as solider
  We dont need to know if you gay or not right
  This policy also brought the whole
  Uhh we dun care so we dun ask
  Its clitons way of sweeping it under the rug
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-12-19 03:30
  You know, I just realized something.
  
  They fight for us everyday. For us freedoms, those freedoms that our Founding Fathers fought and gave their lives for. The freedom of speech, freedom to equality, to life and the pursuit of happiness.
  
  Our soldiers literally die for our country. It's not they something object to. It's not something they think twice. It's why they choose to join the military. There's benefits, it gives them a whole new meaning to their lives and I bet it at the end it leaves great stories to tell.
  
  I got mad love for them. And they too deserve to be respected, to be equal, to be free.
  
  Why must we object to granting them those rights? Why must we pick on the little small things that don't even more? People who die for you and you're complaining about how awkward they make you feel?
  
  All of us, ninety percent of us, sit in front of our computers for hours. The amount of action these people see in real life are things we only see in video games.
  
  And we dare complain about other people's personal lives? People who carry guns, who are protecting people in other countries daily, ensure peace elsewhere and our peace here at home?
  
  We're gonna complain about how discomforting it makes us feel that some of these people sleep with people of the same sex? Who love someone here at home? And like you would, who await patiently to return to their loved one and spend good times with them again?
  
  Other countries--France, the U.K., Germany--they allow gay people to serve openly in their militaries. It's now our turn. Why? Because to complain about gays in the military is stupid. It's downright silly.
• Arsik wrote on 2010-12-19 03:35

  Quote from paladin;252686:

  I perfer that policy stay in place
  All that matters to the military is your performance as solider
  We dont need to know if you gay or not right
  This policy also brought the whole
  Uhh we dun care so we dun ask
  Its clitons way of sweeping it under the rug

  
  
  It wasn't Clinton's way of sweeping it under the rug. Clinton proposed that we abolish the prevention of gays being allowed to serve in the military, but ended up with the DADT policy so that people on both sides can get what they want, the people who wanted gays to serve in the military got what they want, while those that don't want them to get what they want in the form of ignorance. While not perfect, it definitely was a step up from where it was before Clinton when gays couldn't serve AT ALL.
  
  This is definitely a huge step for LBGT rights. Although, I don't understand why Obama/Clinton couldn't just abolish the rule on their own, since they're the Commander in Chief and all, meaning that they are the absolute law when it comes to the military, with the exception of declaring war, which is something that the people (the House) and the states (the Senate) should decide, and deciding who can and can't join the military does seem like something that would fall under the Commander in Chief's job description. Though this may just be my ignorance in the Constitution where Congress added an amendment to it limiting the president's power.
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-12-19 03:38

  Quote from Lan;252672:

  Everyone has their reasons and motivations, their fears and things they are uncomfortable with. They can try to change it but sometimes they can't and you sometimes you should respect it. I for one have an irrational fear of getting fat and fat people, I do not know the reason but just because I fear them does that make me a bad person? Not really, though I am a bad person.

  
  
  Fear or hatred of fat people is wrong.
  
  They haven't done anything to you. Their lives don't affect you.
  
  If you cared so much, you'd help an overweight friend lose weight. Sitting down and complaining doesn't do anything, but make you look closed-minded, hateful and plain silly. Also, pretty shallow.
  
  It's the person that counts. Not what they do in their private time or how much they eat.
• Byte wrote on 2010-12-19 03:48

  Quote from Whyrainfalls;252663:

  Can I ask you a question Byte?
  
  What if there was a person you did not feel uncomfortable around, and you were in the same room as them, not feeling uncomfortable.
  Then it was revealed to you that that person was gay.
  
  Would you suddenly, without any other changes, feel uncomfortable?
  
  If so, it's not a problem with the gay person.

  
  
  I've had friends do that to me btw, it is a little awkward at first, but I do get over it. I mostly dislike the girly gay guys as they just creep me out. As I've stated before I have a lot of gay friends I still talk to, and they have no problem with me disliking the idea of it.
  
  

  Quote from Phunkie;252668:

  Avoiding two or three people you don't like because of their personality is completely fine. Avoiding a group of people because they all cause you discomfort is wrong. There's just no good reason for it. I'm trying to place myself in your tight shoes, but I can't find any good reason for your discomfort, for avoiding people you don't even know.
  
  It's quite nonsensical, IMO.
  
  And you avoid all the other statements I make. This isn't the first time you've said that you think gay people want to rape someone or stick it up another person's butt, or that they're all gonna hit on people of the same sex. That's silly.
  
  I joke around with you, Byte, but I have no intentions whatsoever in getting to you know like that. I'm pretty sure other gay people don't either. If they like someone, they'll drop a compliment or two. They don't rape people. People rape people. People sexually harass people. Women, men, you can even get sexually harassed by a child these days.
  
  I personally think old people having sex is not a great sight to look at. But is it my life? NO. Therefore, I don't care if they have sex or not. I'm not gonna suddenly stop being friends with older people because old people sex is disgusting. That's immature. While you may have a right to feel discomfort, it should not prompt you to discriminate people. It's called respect.
  
  I don't like gangsters. But I don't think all of them carry guns. I don't judge them unless I see something for myself that I don't like. I don't follow stereotypes. You shouldn't either.

  
  
  "As I've stated before I have a lot of gay friends I still talk to, and they have no problem with me disliking the idea of it."
  
  I don't have a problem with it, I would just prefer not to know. I don't care what you do behind closed doors, but I don't want to know if you are or aren't if it doesn't pertain to me then I couldn't give a rats ass. If you liked me, I'd be creeped out, but I'd tell you I'm not like that. I have more of a problem with the guys who act girly.
• Tatsu wrote on 2010-12-19 03:53

  Quote from Courier;252714:

  I have more of a problem with the guys who act girly.

  
  
  That's more metrosexual than homosexual. To be honest, I haven't met many gay men that act like a woman. Which kinda...
• Lan wrote on 2010-12-19 04:13

  Quote from Phunkie;252705:

  Fear or hatred of fat people is wrong.
  
  They haven't done anything to you. Their lives don't affect you.
  
  If you cared so much, you'd help an overweight friend lose weight. Sitting down and complaining doesn't do anything, but make you look closed-minded, hateful and plain silly. Also, pretty shallow.
  
  It's the person that counts. Not what they do in their private time or how much they eat.

  
  
  I don't think I have an overweight friend. And I don't complain about it rather I'm just a bit uncomfortable, as I said it's an irrational fear. Oh and I don't think I have the emotional capacity to hate someone unless they rape my sister or something.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2010-12-19 04:13

  Quote from Courier;252639:

  I wouldn't fire someone from a job because he's homosexual But, if it affected his work, or if he hit on people at work, he would be fired on those grounds.

  
  
  I wouldn't fire someone from a job because he's straight but, if it affected his work, or if he hit on girls at work, he would be fired on those grounds. Gay people just mean their preference is of the same gender, not that they're out to sleep with everyone of the same gender. You're not out to sleep with every girl you see, right?
  
  If a gay person IS being a total whore in military grounds, by all means he needs to be kicked out. Thats exactly why Men and Women were separated in the military in the first place.
  
  "Hey bro, I'm gay" someone says to me
  "For me?" I ask
  "Oh no, I just don't hide my sexuality like its something shameful" he responds
  "K" and we all go on with our lives.
  
  Does hanging out with a girl you have no romantic interest in scare you? Its more or less the same thing now.
  
  

  Quote from Courier;252661:

  It discomforts me, therefore I have a reason. Things that discomfort me greatly I avoid. I'm not some extremist who runs down the street saying "BURN THE GAYS THEY DONT DESERVE TO BE HERE". I'm just someone who disagree's with it. I'm not judging you, nor anyone else, I just have a problem with it.

  
  
  Black people discomfort me. I had bad experiences with them before. I avoid them completely now.
  I'm not an extremist nor do I hate them. But if I was in the military I would be VERY distracted having a black person near by serving with me.
• gentrone wrote on 2010-12-19 04:26
  In my opinion, Don't ask, don't tell should have stayed to avoid all the hating. Courier's position is a fine example of that. If he didn't know about gay people, he wouldn't feel that 'irrational discomfort', so that law actually protected gay soldiers against haters inside the organization who felt the same way. And btw, why should we care if somebody is gay or not unless asked?
  
  Also, none of my gay friends act feminine and want to have sex with any other man walking down the street like a sick person. That idea is just wrong.
• Intex wrote on 2010-12-19 04:34
  How can any of you even say that this shouldn't have passed because then gay people will be attacked and hated? That's like saying black people should still go to a black school rather than integrate into a white school. This **** only starts because of policies that separate people in the first place.
  
  Courier all the reasons you've listed could be used to argue that women shouldn't join the military.
  

  I would not want to know some guy in the shower room with me is homosexual because I would indeed feel that he shouldn't be there and it would in fact lower my ability to perform the duty I signed up for.

  
  There's probably many men in the military still in the closet, showering with all the rest of the men. The only problem that comes up is discomfort from other soldiers, and that only happens when they know about their sexuality. Nothing happens, it's only the other soldiers that become uncomfortable. If you're going to function badly because there's someone you think is checking you out, you might as well kick women out of the military as well.
  
  

  Seeing as I am indeed a homophobe, I would feel a slight uncertainty in his ability to do the job as well as another man who is straight, especially if he acted like a teeny girl who likes to go shopping, seeing as they can still be drafted.

  
  That's a terrible stereotype. I could also generalize that I don't want straight men joining the military because they are too busy eating cheetos and playing video games. You're looking at a small portion of people who don't represent every gay guy on the world. I'd much rather have a gay person who knows Arabic and can operate all standard army weapons than a straight guy who barely made it in. If you're comparing them to women then I guess we should kick women out of the military.
  
  

  Seeing as a majority of other men in the military feel this way too, this policy should have indeed stayed in play.

  
  That's only your opinion http://nationaljournal.com/nationalsecurity/pentagon-study-most-troops-support-repeal-of-don-t-ask-don-t-tell--20101029
  
  

  Now, I have no problem telling your best friend who you signed up for the military with, but telling it to someone who is just in your unit would make them feel uncomfortable.

  
  It's not so simple as just hiding the fact that you're gay. When other people around you are kissing pictures of their children you can't even talk too loudly on the phone when speaking to your boyfriend. When other people receive gifts from their wives, you will have to tell your boyfriend not to send anything so that there are no suspicions. I guess women should also dress up and pretend to be men if they want to be in the military, just like in the old days right?
  
  

  I wouldn't fire someone from a job because he's homosexual But, if it affected his work, or if he hit on people at work, he would be fired on those grounds.

  
  "I wouldn't fire someone from a job because she's a woman But, if it affected her work because women can't do anything, or if she hit on people at work, she would be fired on those grounds."
  "I wouldn't fire someone from a job because he's a man But, if it affected his work because they act so childish, or if he hit on people at work, he would be fired on those grounds."
  Straight men and gay men have the same sex drives, gay men aren't going around trying to sleep with everyone.
  
  

  As I've stated before I have a lot of gay friends I still talk to, and they have no problem with me disliking the idea of it.

  
  That's like the person who makes a racist remark then says "My best friend is a black guy, so it's cool." I doubt your gay friends have a positive attitude towards how you feel.
  
  
  And why are so many people talking about the draft like it's going to happen? I doubt it'd even be brought up in Congress.
• Piko wrote on 2010-12-19 04:41
  During the American Revolution and the Civil War, Black people were looked down upon by Whites as inferior people by the color of their skin. As simple an issue as the color of their skin. Sure, the main reasons they felt this way were because they were the ones who obtained them as slaves and came out on top of them, but in the end, what were the real differences between Whites and Blacks? There were no differences. The only thing that put them down were social standings. When it came down to facts, there is no mental nor physical difference between the potential of a White man and a Black man. Yet some people forgot that. When blacks gained freedom, true freedom in social and political standing, people felt uncomfortable around them. They thought they'd want some form of revenge against those who oppressed them, or they thought it simply was not natural for a Black American to have the same standing as a White American. How people used to and in some cases, still, see each other, simply by the color of their skin.
  
  Now, is that any different from a Homosexual? It was a common case back in the day, I learned from health classes, that STDs were common among the gay community. People would constantly make fun of the gay community. They would look down upon homosexuals as some kind of alien, in a more modern fashion to how whites looked down on blacks. In my opinion, if you feel uncomfortable around a gay person simply because you just feel discomforted by them, it's not any different from how a white boy felt back in the day when he was around a black man. What did they do back in the day to deal with the prejudice? Segregation. Did segregation work out until the very end? No.
• Lan wrote on 2010-12-19 04:53
  If you guys plan to debate this issue shouldn't this go in the Library? Or is this just some commentary?
• Time wrote on 2010-12-19 05:00
  I dont get how a guy liking a guy can make people uncomfortable having them around, how does the fact that they like a specific person of a gender, and not you, make you uncomfortable, I like certain girls, I dont like every girl, girls are not uncomfortable around me.
• abc33kr wrote on 2010-12-19 05:00
  Not that I'm all for gays, but I just think it is fair to state this.
  
  Let's put this to double standard.
  
  What byte is saying is that it would discomfort him if he knew someone is gay, but he can still hang out.
  
  Would a lesbo be discomforted if she found out that you are straight?
  Would she think that you are out to fantasize about her, rape her, and do other nasty things?
  
  *I know this question is somewhat skewed since heterosexuality is a majority, but still this is just a general question.
  
  And this question is toward phunkie.
  A woman raised in a woman only community, such as all-girl school+strict parents that don't let her go outside to meet other guys, would be very scared of men (this is excluding hormones to simulate the situation between straight guy and gay guy). So would it be fair for her to be uncomfortable around them?
  
  
  The point is humans are uncomfortable to explore the unknowns. Unless there seems to be benefits out of it, they won't explore. This is almost like buying a gachapon, there could be total crap or expensive items.