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afyufra wrote on 2010-12-19 22:23
Hi.. I have a doubt. I keep seeing all the videos of KR version and I have noticed that most of the fionas there use Sword over Hammer.. Is there any particular reason?? or just coincidence?
Thank You
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Andy-Buddy wrote on 2010-12-19 22:26
If you have not noticed, sword has much greater defense capabilities and reaction speeds compared to hammer.
Hammer is great for when the monster's aggro is eaten by something else, but if you need to deal damage while being aggro'd, I say sword is your best bet.
And Hammer is stuck at rank A Butterfly and Stigma, so there are no real changes to it.
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Intex wrote on 2010-12-19 23:18
Apparently the reason KR players don't use hammer much is because it's harder to use. Given the fact that we're talking about KR players who are much better at gaming, it must be much harder to use.
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babohtea wrote on 2010-12-20 18:35
Quote from Intex;253305:
Apparently the reason KR players don't use hammer much is because it's harder to use. Given the fact that we're talking about KR players who are much better at gaming, it must be much harder to use.
QFT
seriously though, I don't know that its just harder. Given two perfect Fiona players - one hammer and one sword - people still feel that sword would do better solo.
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Cucurbita wrote on 2010-12-20 18:53
Sword is more defensive, but I prefer hammer over sword any day.
Sword Fiona is easily the WEAKEST path in the entire game. Cannot stress this enough.
Every once in a while I grab a same level sword from my hammer and it kills me inside seeing how long it takes to kill anything.
Hammer Smashes give superarmor frames to make up for its lack of defense. Also, it really depends on the player because its your fault if you're being greedy and going for extra hits when you should be going into a heavy stander.
The whole "Sword skills give extra benefits at rank 9" argument is 5000% moot.
Hammer skills give extra benefits at rank F. Sword skills don't do that.
Also, damage of hammer skills scale much higher than sword skills, so they HAD to cap it at rank A. Its still FAR stronger than sword with the rank A and rank 6 comparison.
Hammer skills also have more knockdown.
See? Theres a benefit to hammer afterall.
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babohtea wrote on 2010-12-20 19:05
Just putting this out there: superarmor frames mean nothing. Later on, you get hit 3 times (sometimes 2 times) and you're dead. Never worth getting hit to finish off a smash.
Hammer skills have more knockdown, but you hit less.
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Cucurbita wrote on 2010-12-20 19:15
Quote from babohtea;254436:
Just putting this out there: superarmor frames mean nothing. Later on, you get hit 3 times (sometimes 2 times) and you're dead. Never worth getting hit to finish off a smash.
Hammer skills have more knockdown, but you hit less.
I play hard mode macha almost all the time so I already know that.
Of course I'm not going to bother tanking a boss smash. But sometimes I'll take the normal attacks from a weaker boss head on or use it with trash mobs.
You hit just as much after the boss has been knocked down, in which case you easily triple sword damage. And with sprint smash + hs cancel, I never really have to worry about "hits".
For the record, there is a hammer solo video to every sword solo video on most bosses on the KR forums, and they're around the same finish times.
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ionexx wrote on 2010-12-20 19:26
could you give me a link to the thread?? im really looking forward to the comparison, im a hammiona, and sometimes i need a correction here and there to use hammer better
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babohtea wrote on 2010-12-20 19:49
Quote from Cucurbita;254441:
I play hard mode macha almost all the time so I already know that.
Of course I'm not going to bother tanking a boss smash. But sometimes I'll take the normal attacks from a weaker boss head on or use it with trash mobs.
You hit just as much after the boss has been knocked down, in which case you easily triple sword damage. And with sprint smash + hs cancel, I never really have to worry about "hits".
For the record, there is a hammer solo video to every sword solo video on most bosses on the KR forums, and they're around the same finish times.
I would like links too :)
I'm not trying to bash the hammer. I'm actually looking for an excuse to play it.
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Ninmenka wrote on 2010-12-20 20:35
Quote from Cucurbita;254441:
You hit just as much after the boss has been knocked down, in which case you easily triple sword damage.
I find triple really hard to believe. Is there some video comparison of a hammer Fiona hitting the same boss as a sword Fiona? Where does this claim come from, exactly?
Quote from Cucurbita;254430:
Every once in a while I grab a same level sword from my hammer and it kills me inside seeing how long it takes to kill anything.
At the risk of me sounding dumb, have you leveled the skills associated with sword Fiona? Amaranth kick one hits everything except bosses and those giant hammer gnolls.
Quote from Cucurbita;254430:
Hammer Smashes give superarmor frames to make up for its lack of defense.
Not important later.
Quote from Cucurbita;254430:
Also, it really depends on the player because its your fault if you're being greedy and going for extra hits when you should be going into a heavy stander.
True.
Quote from Cucurbita;254430:
The whole "Sword skills give extra benefits at rank 9" argument is 5000% moot.
Hammer skills give extra benefits at rank F. Sword skills don't do that.
Blossom Blow changes/gets extra benefits at rank F and then again at rank 9. I don't see that as moot.
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Andy-Buddy wrote on 2010-12-20 20:42
Quote from Ninmenka;254513:
I find triple really hard to believe. Is there some video comparison of a hammer Fiona hitting the same boss as a sword Fiona? Where does this claim come from, exactly?
The weird thing about Sword Fiona's attacks is that they slow down if they hit a monster, and slow down dramatically if it hits multiple, especially her 2nd and 4th swing. Meaning on a Vampire, usually she can only get a single Amaranth, and usually a blossom in. Hammionas can easily swing 2 Butterflies, or even have a fully charged stigma by the time the vampire gets up, just to knock it back down.
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Shirayuki wrote on 2010-12-20 20:45
Quote from Andy-Buddy;254519:
The weird thing about Sword Fiona's attacks is that they slow down if they hit a monster, and slow down dramatically if it hits multiple, especially her 2nd and 4th swing. Meaning on a Vampire, usually she can only get a single Amaranth, and usually a blossom in. Hammionas can easily swing 2 Butterflies, or even have a fully charged stigma by the time the vampire gets up, just to knock it back down.
I want proof :( Are you sure it isn't lag, because usually I never feel a delay on hits with Fiona unless I crit on smash#1 or something.
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Andy-Buddy wrote on 2010-12-20 20:51
Quote from Shirayuki;254520:
I want proof :( Are you sure it isn't lag, because usually I never feel a delay on hits with Fiona unless I crit on smash#1 or something.
Its not lag. There was a whole discussion about it in the Fiona General Guide.
Quote from heretic304;227026:
I've noticed which sword and hammer hits add the most delay. It seems that both the overhead sword and overhead hammer attacks cause the extra delay to your attack for each target you hit. As a result, if you want to get both amaranth kicks off, you must NOT hit with the overhead sword during either combo, and you're only allowed maybe 1 or 2 non-overhead normal hits, since those will still add a tiny bit of delay. With Butterfly Swing, there's less to worry about because the first 3 hits don't add much in the way of extra animation time.
An example of the description.
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Shirayuki wrote on 2010-12-20 20:55
I guess I'll test it myself later this week :l
Thanks for the description though :D
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Andy-Buddy wrote on 2010-12-20 21:04
Quote from Shirayuki;254532:
I guess I'll test it myself later this week :l
Thanks for the description though :D
Oh, just a little hint. Once you start looking for it, try spamming amaranth is some sort of raid. You'll see your party members running around and moving perfectly while you're stuck in that tiny freeze.