Range isn't for noobs...

• radionoise wrote on 2010-12-21 22:11

  Quote from Phoenix~Lament;255884:

  Archers really aren't very strong, especially in higher level places where monsters have absurdly high protection and defense. Advanced magic and windmill bypass protection which allows for high critical damage but the high defense and protection pretty much sucks up all of archery's damage unless you have enough crit to pierce through the protection.
  
  So I'd have to agree with them about the damage, but AR is nowhere near slow. It's one of the fastest skills in the game.. <_< and it's good for stunning monsters if anything.
  
  But because of this archery tends to dominate in areas where you're overleveled due to its sheer speed and the fact that your damage isn't soaked up by anything.
  
  However, I disagree with the above posters who say that range scales slowly in the beginning but picks up later. That better describes magicians than archers. If anything, it's the other way around - at higher levels, you really have to invest everything into crit in order to stay at the same damage-dealing potential as everyone else.

  
  
  Hmm... not to sound rude or anything, but that's just not true. We also do have a skill that ignores protection, it's called Crash Shot... and it's splash range and damage are unparalleled at r1.
  
  Either way, I can kill faster or just as fast as anyone I party with... and I don't have to sacrifice much damage for crit, I can reach 120% critical along with 350+ max damage without trans and that's enough to critical magnum just about every mob you'd normally encounter. When it isn't enough, I just swap to Wing Bow and trans on top of that for 185%+ critical or just spam Crash Shot. I'm only level ~2k, and I can certainly contribute my part when I'm in parties with people 3k~4k+ or more.
  
  The reason ranged has a slower damage growth at the start is because your AP is divided on combat skills and life skills, with the latter taking considerably more time and effort than the former. Once you cap combat skills, you can easily dedicate your time to life skills and improve your damage noticeably as well as have the necessary skill ranks to multiply that damage efficiently.
  
  

  Quote from Bankai231;255891:

  Apparently you havent seen how boss archers are in Peaca Int. They can hit 2k crits on ghasts. Crit isnt that hard to get either.

  
  
  When I ran with my guild, I was critting 4.5~5k magnums on Ghasts next to a campfire... the other two rangers with me were also critting at least 3.5k+ damage on them and none of us was transformed. Actually killing ghasts was very easy for us, lol... the problem was getting them to aggro the person outside for our room setup.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2010-12-21 22:13
  Most Human Archers I know have replaced high critical with max damage. The only useful ranged skills as far as damage output is concerned are Magnum Shot and Crash Shot. Arrow Revolver can't keep up at higher levels but it's very reliable.
  
  While melee combat pulls most of its damage from weapons and equipment, ranged combat heavily depends on dexterity. Dexterity is largely obtained through ranged skills and life skills; the former requiring decent AP investment, the latter requiring significant dedication. In order to compete both melee and range need strong equipment.
  
  Magic, on the other hand, is currently overpowering other builds mid-game. A player can easily spend 400 AP and obtain end-game damage, allowing them to forsake damage enchants in order to improve their defenses and mana pool. However, this is balanced in G13. In order to obtain that same end-game damage, players would need to invest significantly more AP into their character...possibly emphasing elemental specialization. Intelligence takes over where dexterity and strength left off.
  
  Alchemy is grossly overpowered, considering the amount of work that you don't have to invest into it. 300 AP and you obtain better melee damage than players over level 1000 that also worked their tails off trying to obtain strong equips. Spend a little more AP and you can master water cannon and heat buster. Dependency on crystals is unfortunate but most of the skills that you'll end up spamming are store-bought. The key point? No need for stats...no need for equips.
• krpr wrote on 2010-12-21 22:32

  Quote from kennyice;255902:

  Well I have 178 Dex. I think it's not bad for my total (345).
  And they're not messing with me.
  
  I'm not quitting. It's a tight guild. It's only these two new newbs who keep arguing with me. They claim that they an kill me because they can use FH better than I can o3o;
  Both are under total 100. Both can't solo ciar normal without dying. I've seen it.

  
  
  for them to kill you, you'd need to duel with them. FH is the cheapest thing you can do in a duel so yea, i have to agree with some comments. If they weren't joking you should ditch that guild
  
  Though, imo, you still should rank wm. Even if you don't plan to use it, the will wm adds is awesome for archery (+crit %)
• Kenny? wrote on 2010-12-21 22:35
  What rank should I get it to?
  I have:
  1 range
  6 mag
  7 WM
  5 crit
  5 ar
  
  o3o. I'm contemplating ditching it now. Those kids are just pissing me off.
• Chihaya wrote on 2010-12-21 22:38

  Quote from Ailyene;255873:

  But either way, range isn't for noobs. If you use it incorrectly such as messing up someone's combo with really low damage though, that is being a noob.

  
  
  Darn... I wanted to say that D=
  But yeah, I ranked range before I ranked Magic ^^
• krpr wrote on 2010-12-21 22:45

  Quote from kennyice;255957:

  What rank should I get it to?
  I have:
  1 range
  6 mag
  7 WM
  5 crit
  5 ar
  
  o3o. I'm contemplating ditching it now. Those kids are just pissing me off.

  
  
  r1, even if you get enchants for crit later (stiff/lizard/caliburn/etc). The will wm adds also helps you to go to deadly instead of being instantly KOed
  knowing how range misses so often, you'll need it :I
• Kenny? wrote on 2010-12-21 22:52
  Well, not to be rude (i WILL rank w to 1, now that you say so)
  But I don't miss with range almost at all o3o.
  
  Not saying that isn't helpful, though. Thanks :)
• krpr wrote on 2010-12-21 22:55

  Quote from kennyice;255984:

  Well, not to be rude (i WILL rank w to 1, now that you say so)
  But I don't miss with range almost at all o3o.
  
  Not saying that isn't helpful, though. Thanks :)

  
  
  i know, it depends from person to person xD
• Kaeporo wrote on 2010-12-21 22:56

  Quote from krpr;255974:

  r1, even if you get enchants for crit later (stiff/lizard/caliburn/etc). The will wm adds also helps you to go to deadly instead of being instantly KOed
  knowing how range misses so often, you'll need it :I

  
  
  Windmill is a useful skill in general. The best offensive melee skill and one of the better defensive skills in the game. You should rank it to at least r9, although r1 is highly recommended for the added will.
  
  On the other hand, if you put Windmill off to the side for a bit you can take advantage of the Knight job in G13 for easier training requirements. At high levels, you can simply purchase -CP equipment and sell it off once you no longer need it.
  
  Rank your critical hit whenever possible. Arrow Revolver is perfectly fine at r5.
• Intex wrote on 2010-12-21 23:01

  Quote from kennyice;255984:

  Well, not to be rude (i WILL rank w to 1, now that you say so)
  But I don't miss with range almost at all o3o.
  
  Not saying that isn't helpful, though. Thanks :)

  
  You need to leave that guild. You've got to question them when they say AR is too slow.
  Get windmill to Rank 1 ASAP, you haven't even gotten Rank 5 yet. Your range skills are already too high, it's going to be a lot harder for you to train windmill. Even if you don't miss with ranged you can't always use it. Human ranged is great for killing monsters one at a time but once you jump to more mobs it's going to get worse. The people who I partied with that had Rank 1 of all ranged skills still used melee most of the time (granted they also had Rank 1 melee skills). In higher dungeons such as Rabbie advanced where monsters have ranged heavy stander, it will be impossible to beat the dungeon with just ranged.
• krpr wrote on 2010-12-21 23:02

  Quote from Kaeporo;255991:

  Windmill is a useful skill in general. The best offensive melee skill and one of the better defensive skills in the game. You should rank it to at least r9, although r1 is highly recommended for the added will.
  
  On the other hand, if you put Windmill off to the side for a bit you can take advantage of the Knight job in G13 for easier training requirements. At high levels, you can simply purchase -CP equipment and sell it off once you no longer need it.
  
  Rank your critical hit whenever possible. Arrow Revolver is perfectly fine at r5.

  
  
  and not all, even though kenny wants tons of dex for range. wm > counter
• Kenny? wrote on 2010-12-21 23:05
  Thanks for making me feel better guys :)
• radionoise wrote on 2010-12-21 23:11

  Quote from krpr;256002:

  and not all, even though kenny wants tons of dex for range. wm > counter

  
  
  Completely true, the only time an archer should ever use the counter skill is when they have to rank it for the dex :v
  
  Windmill, on the other hand is pretty sexy in terms of stat boosts and gives you more versatility as a character when you get it to r1.
• Marie wrote on 2010-12-21 23:23
  To be completely honest, I never pull out my bow anymore except when farming firewood, and in Peaca Int (ghasts). The main reason is that I don't have Crash shot.
  
  At your level though, AR should be awesome for anything you want to do...but once you get close to 1k, it's either crash shot or nothing, especially since you're a human char.
  
  I was dungeoning with a new guildie the other day. He's 1.8k total human, basically pure ranged with r1 crash shot. In tara castle missions, he was awesome (crash shot in a confined space), but in stone silab, where the monster positions render crash shot useless (or at least, he couldn't get it to work, and resorted to mag shot), he just couldn't keep up. We almost always end up with a 5:1 ratio (split up, silab has 6 spawns in total).
  
  
  In another instance, an elf guildie, similar total level with r1 magnum can kill at a 3:3 ratio with me.
  
  
  Your guildies have some nerve to disregard a class like that, though. Unless they're all 1k+, AR can show them up in most dungeons/SMs.
• Zid wrote on 2010-12-21 23:47

  Quote from Bankai231;255891:

  Apparently you havent seen how boss archers are in Peaca Int. They can hit 2k crits on ghasts. Crit isnt that hard to get either.

  
  
  Ghasts have low Protection.