Glitch in Cor :D

• krpr wrote on 2011-01-03 22:46

  Quote from Zeo;274779:

  Yeah the raft glitch is very abuseable, but there's nothing Nexon can do about it.. KR Mabinogi even still have that glitch.
  
  I don't want to sound harsh, but yeah you guys.. will have to suck it up.. like me and other users does.. And dc/ing in the raft sometime will result you being on the river by accident. (happened to me two times)
  
  Even if devCat/Nexon fixes this glitch.. people still will can get into there by using a Return Coupon.. (unless Nexon deletes all of the return coupons Players have..)

  
  
  they could always make one map instance for that, like a shadow mission. That way you can walk on the river, you'll just be unable to kill anything since there's nothing to kill
• Time wrote on 2011-01-03 22:53

  Quote from Cryosite;274711:

  Your opinion. It is not an instanced zone, the rafter doesn't have any more right to the mobs than I do. I frown on someone that steals zombies in TNN just a much, but most people who get to TNN do so via a glitch.

  
  
  Its different, glitching to TNN (I dont even know how thats possible), would get you to an area that is readily available to non glitchers , and to kill mobs in the same way as non glitchers, therefore, not giving you an advantage in exp, or drops, but with the goblins, you are going to an area in a way that is exclusive to people who glitch, and have an advantage of being in the location for longer periods of time and get more EXP.
• Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-03 23:03

  Quote from Dixon;274716:

  The rafter is playing the game as it is meant to be played.
  
  The river-walker is intentionally exploiting a bug to stand in a place they ordinarily cannot for long periods of time for easy experience.

  
  
  Both opinions, not facts. Plain and simple if devcat/nexon wanted to fix this (and other glitches) they could. They -choose- not to fix their game. The have the source code, the ownership, and the personell with the ability to do so. They -made- this game, they can fix a gross design flaw if they wanted to.
  
  

  Quote from krpr;274823:

  they could always make one map instance for that, like a shadow mission. That way you can walk on the river, you'll just be unable to kill anything since there's nothing to kill

  
  
  That would be a blatantly obvious way to make a fix. Entry to the instance at the start dock, with the same fees. When clicking on the "door" to the raft, you enter an instance of the river. Not only would this prevent river walking, it would remove the need to wait for other rafters ahead of you to get far enough ahead to avoid collisions, it would prevent the problems of hobs being out of their spawn locations due to other rafters, it would prevent spawn bugs since each hob would only have to spawn once ever, and it would cut down on the lag many experience while rafting with less than amazing computers because of only having to load the river, visible banks, and a small section of instanced Courcle past the banks.
  
  With no third party programs, mods, or alterations to the client or anything remotely resembling hacking river walking can be done. It is well known about for years now. You can claim it is cheating, but I disagree. It's playing the game as the game itself allows. And the only "glitch" involved is one everyone apparently accepts readily: housing coupon glitch; particularly letting players smuggle others via mounts.
  
  Plain and simple, it is a non-instanced, public zone. Two people want the same mob for their own personal gameplay reasons. One of those persons happened to be there before the other. Etiquette clearly favors the person who got there first in every other public area where mobs are contested between two players, be it zombies in TNN, a field boss, or desirable training locations like black tailed mongooses.
  
  Keep your unwelcome ideas of morality in a game to yourself. Not everyone agrees with you, and you are not an authority over what other players can or should do to enjoy their game. If you want a polite and civil interaction with other players, then you should be grateful if they choose to set their gameplay desires aside to let you fulfill yours at their expense (i.e. get a couple more stars rafting or whatever).
  
  

  Quote from Time;274834:

  Its different, glitching to TNN (I dont even know how thats possible), would get you to an area that is readily available to non glitchers , and to kill mobs in the same way as non glitchers, therefore, not giving you an advantage in exp, or drops, but with the goblins, you are going to an area in a way that is exclusive to people who glitch, and have an advantage of being in the location for longer periods of time and get more EXP.

  
  
  TNN is not readily available; only on saturdays is possible to get there without using a wing or glitching via housing coupons (and yes, that is a -glitch- not any more "intended" a gameplay function than river walking).
  
  By using said glitch you bypass the inconvenience of having to go only on Saturday, then remain (without access to repairs or many other features) til you are ready to leave. You bypass the intended method of leaving (speaking to the one NPC there who offers you a way back to the regular world), and you bypass the incredibly limited red wing to albey that only comes from g1. Because of said glitch you can go whenever you want, come and go freely to get repairs or arrows or whatever, and have none of the obvious restrictions on you clearly designed to make TNN a special place.
• Time wrote on 2011-01-03 23:46

  Quote from Cryosite;274859:

  
  By using said glitch you bypass the inconvenience of having to go only on Saturday, then remain (without access to repairs or many other features) til you are ready to leave. You bypass the intended method of leaving (speaking to the one NPC there who offers you a way back to the regular world), and you bypass the incredibly limited red wing to albey that only comes from g1. Because of said glitch you can go whenever you want, come and go freely to get repairs or arrows or whatever, and have none of the obvious restrictions on you clearly designed to make TNN a special place.

  
  I think I meant to say Available to non glitchers, like, they could actually go there.
  
  But the point still stands, you could stay there forever during G1, and never leave, and you are killing things the way they are meant to be killed, which was the key point I was trying to get across. By doing the river glitch, you are killing them in a way that is not intended, thats why its a glitch, you are not supposed to be standing there, that is not an opinion.
• Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-03 23:55

  Quote from Time;274912:

  But the point still stands, you could stay there forever during G1, and never leave, and you are killing things the way they are meant to be killed, which was the key point I was trying to get across. By doing the river glitch, you are killing them in a way that is not intended, thats why its a glitch, you are not supposed to be standing there, that is not an opinion.

  
  
  If you tried to stay in TNN forever, you would eventually wear the dura on your gear down to nothing. Though I do know some people who ran around albey/graveyard naked, I'd like to point out that currently if you kill zombies with no weapons, you'd get nada from them. No you cannot stay in TNN "forever" there is a practical limit where you do have to go back. That is part of the design of the place where you are forced to either go back to repair, and wait til next saturday, or go without equipment in order to stay. Using housing coupons bypasses those obvious design elements completely.
  
  Yes, it is an opinion that you are not supposed to stand on the river. It is a fact that if you were not supposed to then Devcat would fix it. The game's design allows for it, and the owners/developers of the game have not changed it after years of this feature being known about.
  
  You, a fellow player, are free to act and make decisions based on your opinion. I, as another player and free to do the same. When our pursuit of our freedoms interfere with each other is when etiquette steps in and determines who is being rude to whom. The precedent is clear.
• Dixon wrote on 2011-01-03 23:59

  Quote from Cryosite;274921:

  If you tried to stay in TNN forever, you would eventually wear the dura on your gear down to nothing. Though I do know some people who ran around albey/graveyard naked, I'd like to point out that currently if you kill zombies with no weapons, you'd get nada from them. No you cannot stay in TNN "forever" there is a practical limit where you do have to go back. That is part of the design of the place where you are forced to either go back to repair, and wait til next saturday, or go without equipment in order to stay. Using housing coupons bypasses those obvious design elements completely.

  
  
  Oh no waiting until next Saturday what ever will we do?
  
  Not everyone abuses fliers, you know. I get a friend and do the Black Evil Pass every few weeks when I want to go there. There is a huge ****ing difference between going to a regularly-accessible location and cheating.
• Time wrote on 2011-01-04 00:02

  Quote from Cryosite;274921:

  If you tried to stay in TNN forever, you would eventually wear the dura on your gear down to nothing. Though I do know some people who ran around albey/graveyard naked, I'd like to point out that currently if you kill zombies with no weapons, you'd get nada from them. No you cannot stay in TNN "forever" there is a practical limit where you do have to go back. That is part of the design of the place where you are forced to either go back to repair, and wait til next saturday, or go without equipment in order to stay. Using housing coupons bypasses those obvious design elements completely.
  
  Yes, it is an opinion that you are not supposed to stand on the river. It is a fact that if you were not supposed to then Devcat would fix it. The game's design allows for it, and the owners/developers of the game have not changed it after years of this feature being known about.
  
  You, a fellow player, are free to act and make decisions based on your opinion. I, as another player and free to do the same. When our pursuit of our freedoms interfere with each other is when etiquette steps in and determines who is being rude to whom. The precedent is clear.

  
  Well, lets say I am a player, who wishes to train WM, and gain a lot of levels, now, as I player, I own a pet, I could easily get new equipment, is storing things in a pets inventory a glitch? Or, I could meet someone in game, who every Saturday, would bring me a bunch of new fresh equips if I bought them from them, a sort of traveling merchant, maybe they are your friend, and if you want gold, store some of your gold for you.
  
  And, can you get onto the river through normal, un-altered gameplay, can I just walk onto the river? Last time I checked you had to DC from the game in order to do this, therefore, making it a glitch, I mean, this is an area that is NOT accessible to a normal everyday player.
  
  As to why Nexon has not fixed this, well, may I point you to Alexina.
  
  Honestly, it just sounds like your trying to convince yourself that a glitch is not a glitch because the game is run poorly.
• krpr wrote on 2011-01-04 00:11

  Quote from Time;274934:

  As to why Nexon has not fixed this, well, may I point you to Alexina.

  
  
  ...... that can sound so offending towards alexina players and yet it fits so well
  
  lol @coupons being a cheat. Coupons are working perfectly like they were designed. You get them, then flier is unusable if the house owner runs out of fliers. That way unless you were to stay in one place for a long time, there would be at least one time where the flier would be expired, unless ofc the house owner kept resupplying the fliers
  
  devcat never expected the party board > hch mod letting ppl get fresh fliers everywhere
  
  This is almost saying red/wax wings of goddess are a way of cheating
• Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-04 00:33

  Quote from Time;274934:

  Honestly, it just sounds like your trying to convince yourself that a glitch is not a glitch because the game is run poorly.

  
  
  It sounds to me like you're trying to convince people (me? others?) that my way of playing is wrong on a game run/designed poorly. I will repeat myself -again-. It is your opinion that your way is "right" and that my way is "wrong." You are not an employee of Nexon (NA, KR, or otherwise) and have zero authority to say what is right and what is wrong.
  
  Also, your examples don't help your point. They're all "legit" ways you could get around some of the logistical hassles imposed by TNN, but none anywhere near as convenient as a relay of housing coupons. Housing coupon glitch has been abused for so much longer than river that people have just grown accustomed to it being an accepted practice; that wasn't always the case. I know people who would actively blacklist people from their houses and try to take other means to stop people from abusing their fliers for travel. There used to be people who would rail against and complain about people that abused housing to get around.
  
  If you wanted to be perfectly "legit" you could indeed do things like use a second character (assistant card assisting you seems appropriate) along with a pet (more than likely paid for by NX, Nexon would certainly approve), or have some friend come back on Saturday (though taking you back via their black pass rather than just arriving to resupply you seems more convenient and non-scammy to all concerned). But people don't do them because housing coupon glitch is far more convenient (not saying that no one ever does those things, I am saying the typical traveler to TNN doesn't).
  
  Point: TNN is clearly designed to be inconvenient to get to on a whim. Compare to getting to Dunbarton or Tir Chonaill. The river is inconvenient to get to because getting to it involves what is quite likely a design flaw in the programming/design. Both places can be traveled to at a whim via housing glitch.
  
  Note that to a lesser extent, Ceo is also "harder" to get to than most places due to the only "legit" method involving waiting for the moon gate to lead to it. Again, a semi-popular place for people to abuse a glitch (again housing coupons) to get to.
  
  And you can't tell me people don't freely abuse housing glitch. I see people advertising requests for "rides" to TNN and/or Ceo regularly. And you can't honestly expect anyone to believe that the process of giving someone a ride to those places via a mount is not a glitch. Hell, if you don't do that glitch the proper way, the game kicks the person off your mount!
  
  @krpr: fliers were designed to let someone advertise the items they are selling in their house, then let you get back to wherever you were. They were never intended to be items you could store as your personal collection of teleporter waypoints. They are not working as intended, they are providing functionality well above what they were intended to do. In fact they practically destroy the value of red/waxen wings. Red Wing to Albey used to go for what was a lot of money back in g2, early g3. Helping someone complete their G1 was often motivated by the payment of such a wing (and the goddess enchant could easily pay the other person to help fill out your 3-person party). Once housing came out, and coupon abuse became known... the price of those wings plummeted to practically nothing. I know people who actively horded those wings to resell for a profit who lost tons from that glitch.
  
  Further, though the cost of one flier is pretty small, using housing coupons takes money away from someone else. Houses on the front pages of a blank search are often hit up by people traveling via coupons, and those 100 fliers get used up fast. If you ever do a blank search and see the first person on the list with grayed-out "recieve" buttons for their stuff, lemme give you a hint that it was not due to their fliers expiring, and it probably was not because 100 people wanted to buy something.
• Time wrote on 2011-01-04 00:37

  Quote from Cryosite;274999:

  It sounds to me like you're trying to convince people (me? others?) that my way of playing is wrong on a game run/designed poorly. I will repeat myself -again-. It is your opinion that your way is "right" and that my way is "wrong." You are not an employee of Nexon (NA, KR, or otherwise) and have zero authority to say what is right and what is wrong.
  
  Also, your examples don't help your point. They're all "legit" ways you could get around some of the logistical hassles imposed by TNN, but none anywhere near as convenient as a relay of housing coupons. Housing coupon glitch has been abused for so much longer than river that people have just grown accustomed to it being an accepted practive; that wasn't always the case. I know people who would actively blacklist people from their houses and try to take other means to stop people from abusing their fliers for travel. There used to be people who would rail against and complain about people that abused housing to get around.
  
  

  
  
  But you can still get to TNN in a way without doing something like forced DC, or however you do that glitch, its simply an area that has a portal which brings you straight there...It is the definition of a glitch, are you saying its not a glitch? Or that its a glitch thats okay to use?
• Koishi wrote on 2011-01-04 00:42
  hey cryosite, get a time machine and go back in time so you can play your precious G1-3, because you definitely have an axe to grind other than promoting good game balance.
  
  Anyway, I'm not horribly against river glitching, as long as the glitchers show courtesy to rafters. There are a lot bigger problems that Nexon should deal with...like well, you know.
• krpr wrote on 2011-01-04 00:50

  Quote from Cryosite;274999:

  @krpr: fliers were designed to let someone advertise the items they are selling in their house, then let you get back to wherever you were. They were never intended to be items you could store as your personal collection of teleporter waypoints. They are not working as intended, they are providing functionality well above what they were intended to do. In fact they practically destroy the value of red/waxen wings. Red Wing to Albey used to go for what was a lot of money back in g2, early g3. Helping someone complete their G1 was often motivated by the payment of such a wing (and the goddess enchant could easily pay the other person to help fill out your 3-person party). Once housing came out, and coupon abuse became known... the price of those wings plummeted to practically nothing. I know people who actively horded those wings to resell for a profit who lost tons from that glitch.

  
  
  If the return coupon "warp" function was never intended they wouldn't give us the flier in the 1st place. They would've made coupons in the way you use hch, you would get warped to the house door you picked and that would create one return coupon. Only way to bypass it would be through modding
  They could even made hch without coupons at all, making a hud message pop up everytime you were in hch to return to previous location. Devcat can be everything but stupid, if this was really a glitch they would've fixed it ages ago
  
  hch return coupons was never a glitch, was never one exploit. The glitch is how people use them to return to areas they weren't supposed to be there, such as nekojima and cor river and margins. That's the real glitch
  Using coupons to access TNN, baol and ceo is everything but a glitch since the player can access those legally by just completing a quest / use moon gate.
  
  Ever did g3 final and wanted a friend elf / giant to join? yea do that then say the results
  
  edit: oh yea, know if you're doing g1 and if you skip the barri dungeon part and go directly to tnn, you'll have to go back and go through the dungeon or they wont let you continue the quest?
  If it was a glitch you would get the seal breaker as you talked to dougal or stepped in tnn. However that doesn't happen.
  Only shows devcat programmed g1 taking return coupons into consideration
• Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-04 00:53

  Quote from Time;275013:

  But you can still get to TNN in a way without doing something like forced DC, or however you do that glitch, its simply an area that has a portal which brings you straight there...It is the definition of a glitch, are you saying its not a glitch? Or that its a glitch thats okay to use?

  
  
  I say it is a glitch that is ok to use. It's been around for years and nothing has been done about it. People need to get over it already.
  
  

  Quote from Koishi;275022:

  hey cryosite, get a time machine and go back in time so you can play your precious G1-3, because you definitely have an axe to grind other than promoting good game balance.
  
  Anyway, I'm not horribly against river glitching, as long as the glitchers show courtesy to rafters. There are a lot bigger problems that Nexon should deal with...like well, you know.

  
  
  G1-G3 era did have some conditions that were preferable to how things have become, but not everything was better. I'd rather try to bring back what little was good back then and/or just fix what is bad now.
  
  If I had any say or influence on there being a fix for this glitch, it might surprise you but I would support such a fix. The idea posted earlier about making the rafting minigame into an instance like dungeons/missions are would be superb. Yes, it would completely nerf river walking, but so what. It would make the game better... not because of getting rid of river walking, but by making improvements to an important part of gameplay.
  
  All I am asking for is that rafters show courtesy to river walkers. They're your fellow players too. I'm sure you can bring up anecdotes about how some person was on the river and didn't stop killing things; their doing so prevented you from getting to some number of stars you wanted for a particular reward. I can give my own anecdotes about how I've seen players with over 31 stars try to kill hobs they had absolutely no need to kill, and were just as rude as if they tried to KS a black wizard field boss or some zombies in TNN I was trying to herd together to WM train on.
  
  Courtesy can be extended both ways. More is better, I just want it understood that it is not just one direction.
  
  @krpr yes, it is a glitch. The glitch and bad design of them is that you can have more than one return coupon. Yes, devcat could have made tons of fixes... but didn't. Same with river walking, which has been around for years unfixed (as said, it still exists in KR mabi).
  
  At what point does a glitch become like housing, where it has been around for so long people just accept it. Accept it will never be fixed, and that you may as well just make use of it?
  
  Rafting minigame could easily be turned into an instance, like dungeons or missions. Or other fixes;

  Quote from krpr;275033:

  Devcat can be everything but stupid, if this was really a glitch they would've fixed it ages ago

  So you're saying river walking is not a glitch? o.O
  
  
  
  

  Quote from krpr;275033:

  Using coupons to access TNN, baol and ceo is everything but a glitch since the player can access those legally by just completing a quest / use moon gate.

  
  
  Ever did g3 final and wanted a friend elf / giant to join? yea do that then say the results[/QUOTE]
  
  My elf friend helped my project rm character's baol final. I don't recall, but that elf was probably led to baol via housing glitch for convenience sake. I don't recall if I was unable to give him one of the passes to baol or not. Assuming you are saying they can't get there, then it seems to me that getting to baol as an elf or giant is a glitch by your own definition too.
  
  

  Quote from krpr;275033:

  edit: oh yea, know if you're doing g1 and if you skip the barri dungeon part and go directly to tnn, you'll have to go back and go through the dungeon or they wont let you continue the quest?
  If it was a glitch you would get the seal breaker as you talked to dougal or stepped in tnn. However that doesn't happen.
  Only shows devcat programmed g1 taking return coupons into consideration

  
  
  ..except housing hadn't been designed yet when g1 was released, and housing clearly destroyed the value of albey red wings. The fact that you have to clear barri for seal breaker title is because before housing was implimented, you could get to tnn via one of those red wings. It was a design consideration because of that wing, not housing.
• Time wrote on 2011-01-04 00:55

  Quote from Cryosite;275041:

  I say it is a glitch that is ok to use. It's been around for years and nothing has been done about it. People need to get over it already.
  

  
  
  Well, since you admit its a glitch, and it obviously gives you an edge since its necessary to use it instead of regular rafting...
  Well, then may I direct you to section 2.2 in Nexons TOS
  
  

  
  PLEASE READ THIS TERMS OF USE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY BEFORE USING THE SERVICE. Nexon America, Inc. ("Nexon America," the "Company," "we," "us") provides this web site (the "Site") and all Site-related services and products, including, without limitation, massively multiplayer online role-playing and multiplayer online casual games (collectively, the "Service") subject to your compliance with the terms and conditions set forth in this agreement (the "Agreement"). This Agreement governs the relationship between the Company and you, the Site visitor and/or Service member ("you") with respect to your use of the Service. It is important that you read carefully and understand the terms and conditions of this Agreement.
  
  
  2.2 Code of Conduct. While using the Service and Software, you agree to comply with all applicable laws, rules and regulations. We reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to take any actions we deem necessary and appropriate to preserve the integrity of the Service and Software. We further reserve the right to determine what conduct is outside the "spirit" of the Service and games provided therein. While using the Service, you agree not to:
  
  -Exploit errors in design, features which are not documented and/or bugs to gain access that would otherwise not be available or to obtain any competitive advantage;

  
  
  Competitive advantage, according to the company, its wrong.
• krpr wrote on 2011-01-04 01:07

  Quote from Time;275043:

  -Exploit errors in design, features which are not documented and/or bugs to gain access that would otherwise not be available or to obtain any competitive advantage;

  
  
  This only covers what i posted earlier
  Coupons for river glitching, nekojima, etc etc : glitch
  Coupons that take you to towns or areas you'd want to get back fast : not
  
  Just remembered another area where coupons can be used however it could turn into a glitch. Rebirth areas, if devcat never expected people to use a flier there you would get a fixed dye every single time you talked to the npc after leaving that place, which you dont. Thus it wasn't planned