Glitch in Cor :D

• Piconoe wrote on 2011-01-04 19:01

  Quote from Herro;275503:

  the fact that if done poorly it can be modded right out. Now end the topic, seriously -beats on head with mic, then drops again and walks off-

  
  
  Lol.
  >it can be modded right out.
  What? What are you smoking?
• Phunkie wrote on 2011-01-04 19:15

  Quote from Piconoe;275701:

  Lol.
  >it can be modded right out.
  What? What are you smoking?

  
  
  R-E-S-P-E-C-T
  
  Find out what it means to me!
  
  Let's be a little nicer.
  
  But I don't think glitches can be really modded out. I like Piconoe's solution.
  
  
  
  Here's my take on this issue.
  
  You have all of the freedom in the world to steal candy from a baby. Chances are, you will not get caught, you won't get in trouble. Who cares of the baby ends up crying? That's not your problem, you already got what you wanted; the candy.
  
  Is it right, however? Definitely not.
  
  You are not supposed to be on a river defeating all the monsters that are meant for those who raft. You may be the kindest, most warmhearted in the world--minding your own business, trying to enjoy a game--but that doesn't make raft glitching right.
  
  Abusing glitches are frowned upon.
  
  You brought up the TNN/housing coupon deal. And sure, you're right. It's an abuse of the housing coupon, however, who does that affect directly? And let's not get all technical here. The people who sell Black Orbs don't really get affected by massive amounts of people going to TNN when they wish.
  
  Like the rafting glitch, it is convenient, yes. But it doesn't really affect anyone.
  
  People who raft... when they encounter someone on the river on that same channel, they are robbed from stars, which translate into experience. What's the big deal, I can get more stars, you say? Well, I would, if you hadn't been there in the first place.
  
  It's like telling the baby, what's the big deal, you'll get more candy? Well, you shouldn't be stealing the candy from the baby in the first place.
  
  If there was a glitch that allowed you to gather the materials for certain mission in order to complete it in very little time and gain tons of experience, a lot of people would probably abuse it. But is it right? Of course not. (Looking at you, Dorren's Request glitch spammers.)
  
  Raft glitching allows people to train their skills and gain experience very quickly. And it's unfair to the rafters.
  
  Just because Nexon or Devcat has not yet fixed a glitch, does not that mean that it was meant to be there in the first place. And the opposite applies, as well; that's why stuff gets revamped and updated all the time.
  
  That's my take on it.
• gentrone wrote on 2011-01-04 19:53
  Cryosite, I somewhat agree with you, but I have found 2 flaws in your argument.
  
  

  Plain and simple, it is a non-instanced, public zone. Two people want the same mob for their own personal gameplay reasons. One of those persons happened to be there before the other. Etiquette clearly favors the person who got there first in every other public area where mobs are contested between two players, be it zombies in TNN, a field boss, or desirable training locations like black tailed mongooses.

  
  
  Not true. They both have different purposes: the first, exp; the second, stars and/or exp. The only way to gain stars is by rafting, and that doesn't allow you to stay there any time you want unlike people who glitch. Therefore, mobs are not contested between the two players equally. This is an obvious reason to say etiquette (LOGIC REASON) favors someone who rafts. This is not an opinion, and I'm using your own argument against you.
  
  Note: your etiquette is your own opinion.
  
  So, if people manage to glitch the river, that's okay, and their own choice; however, they should leave once another player approaches on a raft.
  
  

  It is a fact that if you were not supposed to then Devcat would fix it. The game's design allows for it, and the owners/developers of the game have not changed it after years of this feature being known about

  
  
  This an obvious fallacy. That's like saying 'We can't prove God doesn't exist; therefore, he exists'. If developers didn't fix that 'glitch', it doesn't mean it should be there in the first place. You have no way to prove it.
• Piconoe wrote on 2011-01-04 20:51

  Quote from Phunkie;275717:

  R-E-S-P-E-C-T
  
  Find out what it means to me!
  
  Let's be a little nicer.

  
  
  Sorry. I literally just woke up, though that's no excuse for being an ass.
  
  Correction: "Modded right out", what? Okay, tell me this, how can it be modded out? All these fixes are server side, the only people able to 'mod' it out aren't modding, they are hacking, and if a hacker can hack out this fix, they have the tools at their disposal to practically own the game once they learn how it works.
  
  EDIT: "-beats on head with mic, then drops again and walks off-" Now I remember why I was a jerk in the previous post.
• Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-04 21:35

  Quote from NewbieNub;275505:

  I'm just going to state that a glitch, no matter how light it might be, will still be a glitch.
  
  Same goes for mods. There is no grey area, you're either modding, or you're not.
  
  There is no right or wrong for these kind of stuffs, just suck it up. Most players tend to go for the easy way out, while the players who play the game the way the developers intended (ie. ME? I'm probably one of the few non-modding players left.) will probably lose out.
  
  Then again, even I am not playing the game they way they intended for. I'm practically bypassing the IP block, so meh, whatever.

  
  
  Agreed. Modding is modding, glitching is glitching. I just don't feel it is wrong to make use of glitches.
  
  

  Quote from gentrone;275752:

  Cryosite, I somewhat agree with you, but I have found 2 flaws in your argument.
  
  Not true. They both have different purposes: the first, exp; the second, stars. The only way to gain stars is by rafting, and that doesn't allow you to stay there any time you want unlike people who glitch. Therefore, mobs are not contested between the two players equally. This is an obvious reason to say etiquette (LOGIC REASON) favors someone who rafts. This is not an opinion, and I'm using your own argument against you.
  
  Note: your etiquette is your own opinion.

  
  
  I never stated etiquette was fact, merely that there was precedent.
  
  Stars (exploration exp, item rewards, gold) and exp/skill training are both rewards a player seeks out to further the advancement of their character. That they are slightly different and the exact mechanics for getting them are not 100% idenitical does not change the fact that the hob is contested. Both players have a gameplay reason for wanting to kill that mob. It is not "obvious" that the rafter should be favored. However, thank you for at least pointing out a reason you think they should be given the deference that is not as unrelated as "you're a cheater" that others have opined.
  
  I look forward to contests for mobs in the future that, similar to this one, differe slightly but lead to players wanting the same mob. Sucks to elves and giants that want to sketch the giant long horned gnu for a certain transformation quest, when that boss is going to be -hotly- contested and killed asap by a large amount of the playerbase seeking to upgrade their damage sets. Hopefully those seeking to kill the mob will have the courtesy to let the poor elves and giants sketch the beasty first, no?
  
  

  Quote from gentrone;275752:

  So, if people manage to glitch the river, that's okay, and their own choice; however, they should leave once another player approaches on a raft.
  
  This on obvious fallacy. That's like saying 'We can't prove God doesn't exist; therefore, he exists'. If developers didn't fix that 'glitch', it doesn't mean it should be there in the first place. You have no way to prove it.

  
  
  Not at all similar. It is more like... God doesn't strike me down for jaywalking, the cop parked in front of Starbucks doesn't say anything to me (despite that being his job), while it is technically illegal to do so, in practice it isn't. And if someone hits me with their car, they're still going to get into trouble for hitting a pedestrian in their car.
  
  Eh. Metaphors get too complicated when you try to make them fit. Never mind.
  
  I am not saying it is it is not a glitch and the developers intend things to work this way because they haven't fixed it. I'm saying that if they didn't want people to abuse the glitch, they'd fix it. It is in their power to fix it, that they haven't bothered for this long is an indication that they don't care. Some players therefore seem to care more than the owners of the game do.
  
  

  Quote from Phunkie;275717:

  R-E-S-P-E-C-T
  
  Find out what it means to me!
  
  Let's be a little nicer.

  
  
  Agreed. Everyone should be nicer. (opinion).
  
  

  Quote from Phunkie;275717:

  Here's my take on this issue.
  
  You have all of the freedom in the world to steal candy from a baby. Chances are, you will not get caught, you won't get in trouble. Who cares of the baby ends up crying? That's not your problem, you already got what you wanted; the candy.
  
  Is it right, however? Definitely not.
  
  You are not supposed to be on a river defeating all the monsters that are meant for those who raft. You may be the kindest, most warmhearted in the world--minding your own business, trying to enjoy a game--but that doesn't make raft glitching right.
  
  Abusing glitches are frowned upon.

  
  
  Yay more metaphors.
  
  I have a better one: Some people (among those who actually have an interest in the mainstream storyline) consider Morrighan to be an evil manipulative... person. Based on that belief, they take on the dark armor of the Dark Knight. I kinda feel the same way about Nexon and their TOS. Some parts are alright (like the ones concerning harassing other players for example), and I tend to follow those regardless of my opinions on Nexon's likelihood to enforce them. When in situations where it comes up and I find myself being harassed, I don't try to threaten the other person, or drag the problem onto the forums or anything, I quietly blacklist them and if the case is severe enough file a ticket. Other things, like mostly benign and useful glitches I consider to simply be part of devcat/nexon's fail. It is their responsibility to fix their game, and until they do I'll make use of it, just like I make use of blaze til it is nerfed, or summon golem til it gets nerfed.
  
  
  

  Quote from Phunkie;275717:

  You brought up the TNN/housing coupon deal. And sure, you're right. It's an abuse of the housing coupon, however, who does that affect directly? And let's not get all technical here. The people who sell Black Orbs don't really get affected by massive amounts of people going to TNN when they wish.
  
  Like the rafting glitch, it is convenient, yes. But it doesn't really affect anyone.
  
  People who raft... when they encounter someone on the river on that same channel, they are robbed from stars, which translate into experience. What's the big deal, I can get more stars, you say? Well, I would, if you hadn't been there in the first place.
  
  It's like telling the baby, what's the big deal, you'll get more candy? Well, you shouldn't be stealing the candy from the baby in the first place.
  
  If there was a glitch that allowed you to gather the materials for certain mission in order to complete it in very little time and gain tons of experience, a lot of people would probably abuse it. But is it right? Of course not. (Looking at you, Dorren's Request glitch spammers.)
  
  Raft glitching allows people to train their skills and gain experience very quickly. And it's unfair to the rafters.
  
  Just because Nexon or Devcat has not yet fixed a glitch, does not that mean that it was meant to be there in the first place. And the opposite applies, as well; that's why stuff gets revamped and updated all the time.
  
  That's my take on it.

  
  
  Oddly enough, one of the biggest uses of the housing glitch is of course to go to tnn... and very often that is to train WM (or a host of other skills as zombies are one of the best things in the game to train a lot of skills on). It would be an unfair advantage to someone who chose to not use -any- glitches and was forched to try to use any of the far less convenient methods of getting there. While possible, it would be a lot less convenient to do so.
  Abusing housing coupons also clearly gives someone an advantage when doing several generation quests that send them to a certain golem-infested island. But yeah, no one is arguing that coupon glitch is not useful and/or convenient, or that it doesn't give any advantages.
  
  As for who is affected directly: I already posted several times, but let me expand a little and clarify. I have heard a lot of house owners get ticked off when someone pops up in front of their house, doesn't buy anything, then vanishes. Obviously using housing glitch, and using up their fliers. I've also heard people complain about how they discovered -all- of their fliers gone after a few hours, but not one item in their house sold (and some of those people also had dozens of notes from people complaining that said person was out of fliers and they couldn't get to the house to purchase stuff).
  
  See above, I don't claim river walking is intended. It takes a glitch to get there (whatever the actual glitch is with disconnecting or the housing glitch). I'm just saying that, like housing, it is a convenient glitch that people shouldn't complain so heavily about being used. If it was such a big deal, it could very easily be patched/fixed/revamped like a lot of other glitches have been (glitches that were newer than this one).
  
  What I mostly disagree with though, is that just because one person is on the raft, and one person is river walking, that the person on the raft 100% of the time has right of way. If the person river walking is using an exp potion or double training potion, I think it is perfectly justifiable for them to not give deference to someone on a raft. The duration of that potion is finite, and the cost of it is greater than that of a raft. Another situation is when the rafter(s) have 31+ stars already. Killing more serves no purpose other than some exp and/or skill training... and the river walker is already there (this mostly happens at the very last set of spawns at the end of the third leg).
  
  I would partially concede the point in other situations than those, on a case by case basis. I also think that river walkers, unless they have a good reason to be at a particular spawn on the river -should- go to the ones that rafters typically don't hit at the right fork. If not that spawn, then the very last spawns mentioned above. I'd agree that camping spawns further upstream than these is far more likely to create conflicts. However, I will note that in my frequent rafting trips I haven't often seen river walkers in places other than the two I recommend.
  
  Edit: re: the modding out thing, my take on what he/she said was that if a fix was made to the river walking glitch to make it not work, and that fix was not well done, modders would bypass it.
  
  Sounds like a somewhat subtle reference to the "fixes" that were done to prevent travel to nekojima.
• Dixon wrote on 2011-01-04 21:42
  There is never a good reason to river-walk.
• Jovo wrote on 2011-01-04 22:00

  Quote from Dixon;275862:

  There is never a good reason to river-walk.

  
  
  Agreed. There are far better places to train skills and level up than river glitching. All river glitching does is make it easier for the botters to level (Cryo you very well know who I'm talking about) and ruin the star count for those rafting for life skill mats.
  
  All it takes is a little searching and testing to find these better places.
• Phunkie wrote on 2011-01-04 22:02
  Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should.
  
  Take your 2x experience potions and use them elsewhere because you should not be using them on the river. If we allow one person to river glitch, then we have to allow everyone, some of which will not respect the rafter's right of way; because, yes, the rafter does have the right of way. Just like city buses have the right of way in bus lanes. You should not occupy that space.
  
  And man, if you love Mabinogi so much, I would be more careful. People do report stuff like that. People do get banned for abusing glitches. Recall the Pally vs. Everyone glitch that occurred by in G2? You could attack anyone while transformed and Nexon didn't fix it for awhile. It didn't make it right. Soon after the fix, Nexon banned everyone who abused it. You don't wanna fall into that category if you're wasting so much time and effort on this game.
  
  I river glitched once before. I wanted to train my Summon Golem after watching a video on Youtube. And then I saw someone passing by on a raft. He couldn't kill any of the mobs in that section of the river because I had gotten them all.
  
  I thought to myself, "Wow, I'm an asshole." And I never did it again.
  
  But yeah, sure. I guess as long as you don't bother the rafter, you can do whatever you want. Heck, you can annoy the rafter as much as you want as well. It's all really up to you. I personally have the decency not to do that.
• Pocoyo wrote on 2011-01-04 22:53
  Quit your complaining about the raft glitching.
  
  Isn't this a bit off the topic anyway?
• Piconoe wrote on 2011-01-04 22:59

  Quote from Pocoyo;275955:

  Quit your complaining about the raft glitching.
  
  Isn't this a bit off the topic anyway?

  
  
  Only mildly. The topic was about a neat little harmless glitch you could do in Cor and the topic evolved into a topic about glitches in Cor. It is still in a state of 'glitches in Cor', but the current discussion is localized about the rafting glitch.
• Pocoyo wrote on 2011-01-04 23:03

  Quote from Piconoe;275965:

  Only mildly. The topic was about a neat little harmless glitch you could do in Cor and the topic evolved into a topic about glitches in Cor. It is still in a state of 'glitches in Cor', but the current discussion is localized about the rafting glitch.

  
  
  Yes I know, I was expecting an answer like that.
  
  The original post was about a harmless little glitch that some guy found out and thought that it was pretty cool/weird/whatever, and it evolved into some big thread about River Glitching. Haven't there been a few other threads about this already? If not why not just start one about it instead of going "mildly off topic".
• Everwanderer wrote on 2011-01-04 23:25

  Quote from Pocoyo;275970:

  Yes I know, I was expecting an answer like that.
  
  The original post was about a harmless little glitch that some guy found out and thought that it was pretty cool/weird/whatever, and it evolved into some big thread about River Glitching. Haven't there been a few other threads about this already? If not why not just start one about it instead of going "mildly off topic".

  
  
  What's with people in this forum and their resistance to derivative discussion? Like seriously, now you can't have threads "evolve" because ... ugh! there's a freaking super mod right there discussing with the rest of the members, so i think this should mean they're still on topic, right? discussions evolve people, even if a topic starts with "HEY, A BANANA" it can evolve into "Oh, i remember that apple once, it was pretty nice" they're still talking about fruits so they're still on topic, right? if you added veggies then yeah, they're just going offtopic and the discussion is turning into something gross, but if it's still fruit then it should be freaking A-OK!
  
  Sorry mods for the rant, but this is an issue that's been bugging me for a while now.
• gentrone wrote on 2011-01-04 23:29

  Quote from Everwanderer;276017:

  What's with people in this forum and their resistance to derivative discussion? Like seriously, now you can't have threads "evolve" because ... ugh! there's a freaking super mod right there discussing with the rest of the members, so i think this should mean they're still on topic, right? discussions evolve people, even if a topic starts with "HEY, A BANANA" it can evolve into "Oh, i remember that apple once, it was pretty nice" they're still talking about fruits so they're still on topic, right? if you added veggies then yeah, they're just going offtopic and the discussion is turning into something gross, but if it's still fruit then it should be freaking A-OK!
  
  Sorry mods for the rant, but this is an issue that's been bugging me for a while now.

  
  
  You should have made your own thread about it, you're going way off topic right now!
  
  Haha. Just kidding.
  
  You're right about that, that's why Phunkie is letting this happen. As long as the discussion doesn't deviate too much, it's okay, but it's preferred to stay on topic.
• Phunkie wrote on 2011-01-04 23:31

  Quote from Pocoyo;275955:

  Quit your complaining about the raft glitching.
  
  Isn't this a bit off the topic anyway?

  
  
  Actually, when you think about it, this post is unnecessary.
  
  Next time, please contribute more to the discussion, even if it goes on a small tangent or not.
  
  These 8 pages of posts, it's about discussion. These forums, they're about discussions. So please, if you have nothing to contribute, step aside and let us discuss.
• Navy wrote on 2011-01-04 23:44

  Quote from Phunkie;276034:

  Actually, when you think about it, this post is unnecessary.
  
  Next time, please contribute more to the discussion, even if it goes on a small tangent or not.
  
  These 8 pages of posts, it's about discussion. These forums, they're about discussions. So please, if you have nothing to contribute, step aside and let us discuss.

  
  
  this
  @Pocoyo
  your posts were more offtopic than anything else in here
  also one topic can lead to another
  there's a big difference between going from one type of glitch to another in a topic and going from a glitch topic to your new haircut.
  
  
  Anyway back on topic :
  I won't complain about glitchers because I haven't experienced problems with them.. yet.
  I don't see the need to bash other people's opinions and it is completely unnecessary.
  
  (inb4lock)