Quote from Makisushi;28984:
Lots of talk here about what evil is and that God doesn't care that's why there is evil. Here's a nice story as a rebuttal :3 Sorry if its a bit long, its a nice read~
A science professor began his school year with a lecture to the students, "Let me explain
the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy paused before
his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.
"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"
"Yes sir," the student said .
"So you believe in God?"
"Absolutely."
"Is God good?"
"Sure! God's good."
"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"
"Yes."
"Are you good or evil?"
"The Bible says I'm evil."
The professor grinned knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considered for a moment. "Here's
one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can
do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"
"Yes sir, I would."
"So you're good...!"
"I wouldn't say that."
"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us
would if we could. But God doesn't." The student did not answer, so the professor
continued. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even
though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer
that one?"
The student remained silent.
"No, you can't, can you?" the professor asked. He took a sip of water from a glass on
his desk to give the student time to relax.
"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"
"Er...yes," the student says.
"Is Satan good?"
The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."
"Then where does Satan come from?"
The student faltered. "From God"
"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son... Is there evil in this world?"
"Yes, sir."
"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"
"Yes"
"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God
created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define
who we are, then God is evil."
Again, the student has no answer.
"Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they
exist in this world?"
The student squirmed on his feet. "Yes."
"So who created them?"
The student did not answer again, so the professor repeated his question. "Who created
them?"
There was still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer broke away to pace in front of the
classroom. The class was mesmerized. "Tell me," he continued onto another student.
"Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"
The student's voice betrayed him and cracked. "Yes, professor, I do."
The old man stopped pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and
observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"
"No sir. I've never seen Him."
"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"
"No, sir, I have not."
"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever
had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"
"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."
"Yet you still believe in him?"
"Yes."
"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says
your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"
"Nothing," the student replied. "I only have my faith."
"Yes, faith," the professor repeated. "And that is the problem science has with God.
There is no evidence, only faith."
At the back of the room another student stood quietly for a moment before asking a
question of His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"
"Yes," the professor replies.. "There's heat."
"And is there such a thing as cold?"
"Yes, son, there's cold too."
"No sir, there isn't."
The professor turned to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly
became very quiet. The student began to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even
more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no
heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below
zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such
thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.
Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and
heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F)
is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe
the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units
because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of
it." Silence enveloped the room. A pen dropped somewhere in the classroom, sounding
like a hammer!
"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"
"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"
"You're wrong again, sir Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something.
You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have
no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the
meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would
be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"
The professor began to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good
semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"
"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with,
and so your conclusion must also be flawed."
The professor's face could not hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain
how?"
"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that
there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the
concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even
explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less
fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant
of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite
of life, just the absence of it. Now tell me, professor.. Do you teach your students
that they evolved from a monkey?"
"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course
I do."
"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?" The professor began to
shake his head, still smiling, as he realized where the argument was going. A very
good semester, indeed. "Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at
work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not
teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?" The class
was in an uproar. The student remained silent until the commotion had subsided. "To
continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an
example of what I mean."
The student looked around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen
the professor's brain?" The classroom broke into laughter. "Is there anyone here who
has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt
the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the
established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that
you have no brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have no brain,
how can we trust your lectures, sir?"
Now the room was silent. The professor stared at the student, his face unreadable.
Finally, after what seemed like an eternity, the old man answered. "I guess you'll
have to take them on faith."
"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the
student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"
Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday.
It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of
crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else
but evil."
To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not
exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and
cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not
create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love
present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the
darkness that comes when there is no light."
The professor sat down.
True be that, those things can be considered, but it's possible to prove those stuffs exist because technically, they do.
I wouldn't go down to quoting and scrimming through every single line of text you have there, but in the story above, the professor made several mistakes:
Firstly, light is made from photons. While this particles exist, there be light. Without these particles, our eyes would not be able to react to the state where photons doesn't exist, therefore this particular state where light doesn't get reflected into the cone cells at the back of your eyeball would be called "Darkness" because you couldn't see a thing without light.
Heat is energy. As learned from science, heat can only go from a place with ample heat to a place with less heat. If you would remove all heat from a particular region, you wouldn't be able to feel this particular energy, therefore thrusting you into a state of low heat energy called "Coolness" or "Cold".
The fact that people evolved from
a monkey would be wrong too. We did not evolve from monkies, in fact, the particular term would be ape. Monkies are another evolutionary pathline that we once shared the same (
Or not) ancestors with. Our evolutionary path is paved by a particular evolutionary speices called labled as "homo". It's true that we couldn't be totally sure that this particular evolutionary path exists, but we do have ample proof through DNA testing and particular diggings through fossil sites and ancient cavemen homes. With this proof, it's possible to deduce that people DID evolve from them, but we can't be a hundred percent sure though.
And as about the professor's brain, we'll just judge the professor as an ordinary human. Having loads of dissections happening all around the world, there is ample proof that if the professor is an ordinary human being, he would naturally have a brain, may it be big, small, smooth or rough, pink or brown. Of course, there's always the case that the professor may not be a human being at all. But the chances of that happening is so slim, it's practically impossible. By any case, if the professor IS to be without a brain, then he would be a miracle.
Yes, miracles, this is what god is based on.
An unknown entity that could cause miracles to happen, the faith to place in this particular hard to prove entity would be in fact, impossible. You can say that it would take a miracle to prove that god exists.
But to have ample proof that god exists would be troublesome. Firstly, christanity isn't the only religion, there's loads of subreligions and main religions out there. Does this means that there's loads of gods out there too? Secondly, imagine the chaos that would happen on this world if someone could really prove that god exists.
Simply put it, if I had to say so. It's more of a period of time where you make peace in within your heart. A time where you place yourself in the center of your universe and just think about the better of life and stuffs like that. It's more of a physiological state where you experience extreme peace and quietness.
The last point is pretty much self-conflicting though.
If I'm going about to rid the world of non-believers with the love of God in my heart, does that means I'm doing good?
Alright, I realized that there's more posts and the stuffs you're reading is probably the corrected bible with the much more "Friendlier" god for the 21st century.
The bible that I've borrowed off the school library was at the 16th century or something.
My God doesn't want anyone dead. They have sinned. They must die.
If this is true, then the very sin that we've done is because we exist in this world.
Can you show me even one religion that teaches that? What you've described is the work of men being crazy. It's not the religion, it's the people that do horrible things in it's name even if it forbids doing such things.
Nevertheless, people are still killing other people. Even during the 17th century, people are still killing each other for not believing in other's religions. From what I've read up on history books, popes and priests are promoting people to kill the non-believers if they refuse to have the same faith. Killing in the name of religion isn't a new thing, I'm pretty sure.
It depends on what god you're talking about. If we're to assume Christianity then there are not some people that he doesn't love. Also, if George Carlin is your religious source for learning it might do you good to take a less aggressive approach to your questions. The guy is a comedian, he's not concerned about getting it right so much as making it funny.
George Carlin isn't my religious source.
Very much like him, I used to go to a christian church, then a catholic one. Almost all; if not all of them, of my uncles, aunts and cousins are all either Christians or Catholics. And do trust me, I was brainwashed by them too when I was young. I've attended a Christian educational based school for 6 years, for 6 years I've been muttering my prayers for every day of the working week. Damn, I can even remember the thing right now.
The problem is that, pretty much like Carlin, the older I get and the way how schools are now teaching Science as a basis of fact is corrupting the image of god. I've started watching the news when I'm 14, reading newspapers and magazines, about how people does crimes and how they're being punished shown me that god isn't really doing anything. It's more of people. People are punishing people for doing crimes like stealing, like murders, assault, rape, drug abuse, selling drugs, armed robberies. Everything's all judged and punished by humans.
Besides, saying that everyone's evil unless they believe in god is selfish, don't you think?
Again, you are confusing my religion with the Islam.
Islamic text din't say anything about killing people.
How ever, there's stories about how god goes about killing non-christians with calmaties and natural disasters.
Nevertheless, in the end, the only thing I would agree with about religion is the way how they teach people to be morally correct. It's an effective way, I would say.