Mod vs hacks?

• Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-18 21:10

  Quote from kingofrunes;295566:

  I was joking about all modders should burn. Though I think that they should be banned for violating the ToS. I can't believe you guys are so defensive over your right to mod/hack that you would take any of my "threats" as real and actual threats.
  
  I wouldn't actually burn anyone or condemn them to death.
  
  Do I still think modding/hacking is wrong? Hell ya I do. You should be punished in some form and you god damn know it.
  
  Mods to encourage abusing a flawed game. That makes it even worse. Abusing a glitch is one thing. But using mods to assist in glitching is even worse!
  
  Just because the game is poorly designed and Nexon isn't doing anything doesn't mean you have to ruin it for the rest of us legit players!

  
  
  I don't think someone is overly defensive when someone says they should die, and their only response is to point out that wishing death on someone is overreacting. Thank you for clarifying that you were not serious though.
  
  Should people like me be punished for using glitches and/or mods? I don't think that is such a clear cut black and white case. The fact that the game itself doesn't stop me from doing something like using housing coupons to travel and/or get onto the surface of the river or the lake in emain macha is perfectly valid enough a reason to think it is ok to do so. You can make a very good and beleivable argument that it is not "intentional" but what one player things and another player thinks have equal weight. It is up to the host of the game, nexon, to explicitly state that such things are against the intent of the game. The fact they have done -nothing- to that end is pretty similar to a "go ahead" through neglect on Nexon's part. Remember, these glitches are years old in NA, and even older in KR in many cases. Nexon can't possible be in the dark about their existance, there is evidence they know full well the glitches exist, and they have had ample opportunity to fix them. Players with absolutely no knowledge of programming can come up with simple solutions to fix these glitches, and some with the knowledge even do so using mods.
  
  If anyone deserves to be punished, it is Nexon. For their failure to fix their own game.
  
  In much better hosted games like Everquest and WoW, glitchers are indeed punished. Because those game companies actually employ GM's that investigate reports and ban people. Glitches are then fixed in a timely manner because their development staff actually does their damn job.
  
  Further, if this game was "ruined" why are you even still playing? At best you can say you are slightly inconvenienced. At worst you can say you're prevented from competing at the top, though considering the number of 100% legit players at the "top" (whatever that may mean to you) there doesn't seem to be much weight to that statement at all. Modders, glitchers, hackers, and various other non-legit players exist, right now, today. Yet you can apparently still play and enjoy the game. It isn't ruined, you're once again overreacting.
• Chockeh wrote on 2011-01-18 21:38
  This thread is pretty harsh.
• Suoh wrote on 2011-01-18 22:06
  That macro has been around since you could practically mine fossils, I'm surprised people are still just finding out about it.
• Second wrote on 2011-01-18 22:26

  Quote from Chiyuri;295292:

  I heard people need a certain mod package to be able to use that. Otherwise the reward doesn't change even if you switch ego 100 times. I never tested it so I,m not sure.. Some guy from Alexina server (a Synthetiser) was telling me how he got his ringbows so easily. He mentionned that package was needed to cause that said glitch. Well that was back during the last dragon boat event. I don't know if it changed eversince.

  
  You get ring bows from hot air ballooning. The glitch is probably the ego trick that everyone is talking in this thread.
• Animefreak97 wrote on 2011-01-18 23:45
  I'm pretty sure that ego glitch can be used without mods...
• Claudia wrote on 2011-01-19 00:27

  Quote from Chockeh;295668:

  This thread is pretty harsh.

  
  
  Indeed.
  It's kinda funny how people are so quick to slam and defame what they don't understand...such as modding.
  If mods didn't exist, I wouldn't be able to play due to my heavy graphical lag. Even still, I get ~25fps and it makes me pretty happy, so yeah.
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2011-01-19 00:46

  Quote from ShadowFox31;293615:

  So I just learned from a friend (and lost all respect for him), that NA has a "macro" that completely restores a fossil 100%. I think that's game breaking. He keeps claiming that it's not a hack and it's a mod, but that is completely false. I will say, some things I do have on my mabinogi are more "mods" and change the gameplay, but not to that serious of an extent. Zoom feature because it's a different look, giant keys because it's easier to see, treasure/mimic seeing because the random feature... but fossil macro is just game breaking. that's something that requires skill... not time.
  
  So what's your opinion? just WHERE do you draw the line?

  
  I used to have different opinions on this entire issue, so I shall give my current one.
  
  If I don't see it blatantly out there, I don't care. Fossil macro can't really be seen by other people. Furthermore you aren't guaranteed instant chances at a lava cat suit.
  
  I agree with you on the skill part for fossil. If that's the case it should never be made compulsory in the first place by a generation. That was a terrible decision. Trouble is that there are some people who cannot get to the level of skill required (especially for G8 fossil restore) because of hardware issues (e.g. no optical mouse, which makes control of the minigame tougher). I had to help some of these people but seriously it's not really fun to be helping all the time, which is why a macro option would be safer for everyone.
  
  For competitive play, such as Fashion Contest, that is really something that should have been looked into a very long time ago, unfortunately they chose not to do anything about it. My only disappointment is that the bots deprive other players (and all legit ones) from a chance to get fashion title and achievement. However, this could well be solved once people stop buying the dresses and the bots no longer see a reason to do fashion contest minigame anymore.
  
  Therefore, my current stand is that, with time, some problems will be eventually solved on their own.
  
  There is also a time issue to consider for a lot of people who need to have less time for games and more time for other activities. IMO, games are evil from the way they are designed, deliberately stealing more time from you unless you finally step in with some controls of your own.
  
  I do use extremely effective macros myself because of a lack of time or also a waste of energy to be doing the same actions over and over again. I'm an intelligent being and not a robot. I'd like to give majority of the blame to Mabinogi's horrible game design - especially for life skills and production system (including alchemy production when it comes to mass synthesis and conversion).
• Chiyuri wrote on 2011-01-19 01:04

  Quote from Cryosite;295619:

  
  Should people like me be punished for using glitches and/or mods? I don't think that is such a clear cut black and white case. The fact that the game itself doesn't stop me from doing something like using housing coupons to travel and/or get onto the surface of the river or the lake in emain macha is perfectly valid enough a reason to think it is ok to do so.

  
  
  I like that reasoning.. Based on it, I can thief, murder and rape guys as much as I want because reality and the Law can't stop me from doing it...
  Like you said.. it's a Valid reason to do it...
• Fabian wrote on 2011-01-19 01:22
  Okay people, since no one seems to understand one basic thing about this stuff, I'll be the hero and explain:
  
  Anything that goes against Nexon's ToS is bad. This includes client editing and whatever you do to lessen your lag, change your surroundings, or view cp.
  
  Is it that hard to understand? Yes, there's harsher mods/bots out there than some others, but it still doesn't change the fact that they are breaking Nexon's ToS.
  
  Does anyone care? If you go and call someone a modder/botter they'll simply bash you and everyone around will agree. So no one cares, but that doesn't stop you from sending a screen shot of their conversation to Nexon (there's an option in-game). So since your friend is breaking Nexon's ToS, simply take a screen shot of your conversation with him, send to Nexon, and your friend will never mod/bot again 8D!
  
  So yeah, doesn't matter if you use them or not, you should be aware that what you are doing my lead to a ban. Why else would there be so many bans due to modding in the past, if it weren't bad?;o
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2011-01-19 01:36

  Quote from Fabian;296029:

  Okay people, since no one seems to understand one basic thing about this stuff, I'll be the hero and explain:
  
  Anything that goes against Nexon's ToS is bad. This includes client editing and whatever you do to lessen your lag, change your surroundings, or view cp.
  
  Is it that hard to understand? Yes, there's harsher mods/bots out there than some others, but it still doesn't change the fact that they are breaking Nexon's ToS.
  
  Does anyone care? If you go and call someone a modder/botter they'll simply bash you and everyone around will agree. So no one cares, but that doesn't stop you from sending a screen shot of their conversation to Nexon (there's an option in-game). So since your friend is breaking Nexon's ToS, simply take a screen shot of your conversation with him, send to Nexon, and your friend will never mod/bot again 8D!
  
  So yeah, doesn't matter if you use them or not, you should be aware that what you are doing my lead to a ban. Why else would there be so many bans due to modding in the past, if it weren't bad?;o

  
  No proof = no ban. Unless they want to give horrible service and lose business. (service is secondary to money to them) Ultimately a money-making industry which is why the business decisions always win out at the very end unless the service is tied as a business decision.
  
  ToS wise, people read but they usually don't care so long as they don't get caught. To me, the design of games are ultimately the root of many evils. Something that parents never taught me but eventually realised through experience. Exercise self-caution and risks at your own peril.
• Roy Mustang wrote on 2011-01-19 02:22

  Quote from Cryosite;295619:

  I don't think someone is overly defensive when someone says they should die, and their only response is to point out that wishing death on someone is overreacting. Thank you for clarifying that you were not serious though.
  
  Should people like me be punished for using glitches and/or mods? I don't think that is such a clear cut black and white case. The fact that the game itself doesn't stop me from doing something like using housing coupons to travel and/or get onto the surface of the river or the lake in emain macha is perfectly valid enough a reason to think it is ok to do so. You can make a very good and beleivable argument that it is not "intentional" but what one player things and another player thinks have equal weight. It is up to the host of the game, nexon, to explicitly state that such things are against the intent of the game. The fact they have done -nothing- to that end is pretty similar to a "go ahead" through neglect on Nexon's part. Remember, these glitches are years old in NA, and even older in KR in many cases. Nexon can't possible be in the dark about their existance, there is evidence they know full well the glitches exist, and they have had ample opportunity to fix them. Players with absolutely no knowledge of programming can come up with simple solutions to fix these glitches, and some with the knowledge even do so using mods.
  
  If anyone deserves to be punished, it is Nexon. For their failure to fix their own game.
  
  In much better hosted games like Everquest and WoW, glitchers are indeed punished. Because those game companies actually employ GM's that investigate reports and ban people. Glitches are then fixed in a timely manner because their development staff actually does their damn job.
  
  Further, if this game was "ruined" why are you even still playing? At best you can say you are slightly inconvenienced. At worst you can say you're prevented from competing at the top, though considering the number of 100% legit players at the "top" (whatever that may mean to you) there doesn't seem to be much weight to that statement at all. Modders, glitchers, hackers, and various other non-legit players exist, right now, today. Yet you can apparently still play and enjoy the game. It isn't ruined, you're once again overreacting.

  
  
  Your logic is invalid. Just because Nexon doesn't take care of it doesn't make it more moral to do so. It's like if people could get away with stealing and murder. It's still wrong and you well know it.
  
  I've always been against mods/hacks/glitchs. It's all the same thing. It violates the ToS and should constitute a ban.
  
  As I was telling my friend Kenero earlier..
  
  

  
  Just because Nexon isn't paying attention and the game is a full of glitches doesn't mean you should abuse the hell out of it and influence the game with things that you got through illegitimate means and compromise the game for those of us who choose to be legit. The moral thing to do is try to report these issues to the developers and not abuse the hell out of them.

  
  
  It's the fact that people know it's wrong yet abuse it anyways that really pisses me off.
  
  
  Also, to add. I don't mod and I don't lag at all. They fixed most of the text lag issues in g9 in case you didn't notice which if you were stuck in your mods you wouldn't have noticed. Also if you are lagging that bad, get a better computer >.>
• Crimmy wrote on 2011-01-19 02:49
  I didn't know modding a videogame = murdering or stealing.
  
  I mean, seriously now? Can you guys make a point without playing with emotions?
  
  Hell, it's not even equivalent to cheating on a test.
• Juno wrote on 2011-01-19 02:53
  For the record, using a thread title with less baggage reduces the chances of said thread being hijacked by the perennial debate.
  
  And on that note, it might be beneficial for us if we don't sing this song all over again in a loosely related thread. And by beneficial, I mean it won't lead to escalation that leads to wrist slaps and/or effective decapitations.
• ShadowFox31 wrote on 2011-01-19 03:40
  And for the people who are wondering why i'm just finding this out, I quit NA. I just stick to me, myself, and my fellow English members on taiwan.
  
  Again, for my final stand.
  Mods are okay. changing graphics to make something look the way you like, Dont care.
  bots are ... Iffy. If it requires skill and you can't do it, dont bot it. Get a friend with skill to do it. If it requires pushing a button for days, then maybe, but I probably wont.
  Hacks/game changing. Stop being such a whore and play the game how it's ment. Just because you can't beat something dosen't mean you should hack it.
• Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-19 04:27

  Quote from Chiyuri;296016:

  I like that reasoning.. Based on it, I can thief, murder and rape guys as much as I want because reality and the Law can't stop me from doing it...
  Like you said.. it's a Valid reason to do it...

  
  
  Have fun with those. Lemme know how well it works out for you.
  
  But if you absolutely want to get into a philosophical conversation concerning the rightness or wrongness of murder and so on, feel free to start such a topic on the appropriate forum and/or private message me about it.