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GregHouse wrote on 2011-02-28 15:59
Quote from Mama;351925:
:p
people seem to forget that having high critical rate means a boost in damage, albeit small, but still not insignificant
unless you are spending most of the battle whiffing as is the case in some difficult boss battles
Your right. Maybe it will ballance the potencial loss on regular mobs. I would like to add the Oblivion ES to this thinking. Im not sure, but ive heard that it has a chance of activating the 2500att and m.att bonus everytime you get a crit. That alone would outshine the cons of having it right?
Quote from Mama;351925:
Thus it is not ethical to tell them it will hinder your gameplay, and at the same time tell you it will help you only
I agree with leaving it as something lower priority, but I still use at least rank E
Thats what im saying, we need to be as objective as possible. What if the only skill you have left to rank is Crit?
Quote from xJac;351974:
"Critical Hit is Bad" based on the fact that you will knock away monster on upswing and missing your downswing, and leaving monsters unharmed. Good point, but how often does it happen? Is it avoidable through adjustment in movement? How does this affect solo/party? Would BT not enough to finish the mob? Or if the downswing do end on the mob, is the mob guaranteed dead (including BT)?
Its not that often, and that is a good question to be asked. I supose its a big deal if you try to solo and not killing (or lowering hp at least) could result on mobs hitting more often. On party play i have to agree: thats why youve got partners.
If we take Hero mode on boat 4 as an example, an average lvl 50 player would not be able to kill buffed monsters in 1 full smash + BT. If this happend i would atack a different group of monsters in the opposite direction, so i can take advantage of the time that particular mob will take to get back on its feet and run to me. And i have to say it: Critical hit ists not Bad or Good, its convenient or inconvenient depending on the scenario your in. What we want to prove is that theres more convenient scenarios for it than inconvenient ones.
Quote from xJac;351974:
As far as I know,
(5) Questionable. I didn't really pay attention to scythe user using BT in hero mode, but if the mob is not dying by the BT, it's likely the mob won't die even with the downswing damage count in.
True, but it would be better to take away as many hp as possible. Your not guaranted to land Invisible Loom on all mobs there, youll have to choose.
Quote from xJac;351974:
People can argue they don't like Critical Hit and don't want to rank it, I am totally fine with it. But if someone wants to convince others that "Critical Hit is BAD", I want to see actual proof, not just someone's opinion.
Couldnt have said it better myself.
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Kueh wrote on 2011-02-28 17:15
All that being said, I still wouldn't recommend ranking physical crit anyway.
The AP cost is phenomenal, and it only assists the mini attack portions of the smash.
Even if I had rank6 crit, it would only add about 170 damage to my loom.
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GregHouse wrote on 2011-02-28 17:51
Quote from Lyre;353753:
All that being said, I still wouldn't recommend ranking physical crit anyway.
The AP cost is phenomenal, and it only assists the mini attack portions of the smash.
Even if I had rank6 crit, it would only add about 170 damage to my loom.
Helo Lyre, but what if thats the only skill left to rank? ap would die anyways...
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Kueh wrote on 2011-02-28 18:01
Quote from GregHouse;353792:
Helo Lyre, but what if thats the only skill left to rank? ap would die anyways...
That's totally different. When you've maxed all the other skills, who cares what you put stuff into?
*coughmeditationcough*
Though it's different for the people who abhor physical crit. They just wouldn't touch it. I wonder if they'd really just let all their AP sit there over it.
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Maruja wrote on 2011-03-07 12:07
I think its funny that people are worried about trash mobs in normal/hard mode. You hit them with your scythe and they get stunned and stop attacking. Whether you knock them back or not they are still going to die easily. I feel that physical crit is important for scythe evie for for 2 big reasons.
1. Hero Mode - Mobs in hero mode are very difficult in groups unless you knock them down. Once they are on the floors they are easy targets. However in large numbers wile standing they can easily take you out because if your attacks cannot knock them down, they are going to knock you down and combo you and kill you. As i approached maximum AP limits i decided to go ahead and rank my crit. as i did this i found it easier and easier to solo difficult hero mode levels that i couldn't get a party for. I found that by doing bursts of short combos like LLR, i could eventually knock all the elite mobs down and kill them without losing control of the situation, and as my crit got higher the knockdowns became more frequent making it safer for me to take on groups of mobs in hero mode.
2. DAMAGE!!! - more crit = more damage period. When you are killing difficult bosses like Irukul or Klaus or Weeping Queen, you don't always land every attack perfectly because you are kiting a lot. Thus it makes sense to deal as much damage as you can. If you are landing a crit 30-40% of the time it really adds up in the end on bosses.
In this sense worrying about your proficiency at killing trash mobs is kinda lame, there is a much bigger picture, however if thats your thing then more power to you. I would rather be more efficient at doing the challenging stuff, because in the end thats what earns you the good gear not doing perfect combos on trash mobs...
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Rinne wrote on 2011-03-07 14:08
Sorry, I only read part of the thread... but I would totally rank up critical hit if it affected regular scythe swings.
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junoesque wrote on 2011-03-07 14:15
I must say, I jumped on the bandwagon when I heard that ranking physical critical for Scythes became a hindrance. But due to an overabundance of AP, I decided to rank it anyway. It does help shave off minutes when I do solo bosses, and it also helps with those irritating no-knockback Hero mode mobs. I'm sure at that dreaded boat 6 everyone keeps referencing I might be singing a different tune, but what else am I going to do with that AP? XD
Really, truly, honestly, do what you want. If you do, I think you'll be happier, and you'll only have one person to blame when it all goes south. ;D
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Amada wrote on 2011-03-26 01:56
Boat 6 is out!
So I now pose the question: Does Physical Crit destroy your ability to play this game now?
It doesn't on my end.
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xJac wrote on 2011-03-26 15:43
Nope. I actually like the KD, it helps when fighting a bunch of spears + cannons, and when you want to disable them fast.
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GregHouse wrote on 2011-03-26 17:41
Quote from xJac;385017:
Nope. I actually like the KD, it helps when fighting a bunch of spears + cannons, and when you want to disable them fast.
I completly agree, and it proves my hipotesis than while it COULD be a hinderance on boat 4-5 and down, it would be really useful on boat 6 and up.
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Mikey wrote on 2011-03-27 01:43
I guess to sum up kind of what I've read and what I've experienced first hand, there are pros and cons to both (obviously).
If you choose to raise up your critical mastery, yes, monsters do fly away, and it is annoying. Your magical smash is much more powerful, and sometimes you leave mobs unkilled because it misses entirely.
However, if you do raise up your smash mastery, I would also recommend wearing heavy armor and maxing weight mastery as well. This allows your physical attacks to be more powerful. (Hopefully) be powerful enough to wipe out the mob when you land a critical (and if you don't land a crit, your magic smash should do the trick), therefore not leaving any mobs unkilled.
Personally I did not go critical, I'm using INT sets, and I do not plan on raising it until higher level boats come out to the NA version, where monsters do not flinch, thus just giving me more raw damage.
Hope this helped.
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Amada wrote on 2011-03-27 06:11
Quote from Mikey;385578:
I guess to sum up kind of what I've read and what I've experienced first hand, there are pros and cons to both (obviously).
If you choose to raise up your critical mastery, yes, monsters do fly away, and it is annoying. Your magical smash is much more powerful, and sometimes you leave mobs unkilled because it misses entirely.
However, if you do raise up your smash mastery, I would also recommend wearing heavy armor and maxing weight mastery as well. This allows your physical attacks to be more powerful. (Hopefully) be powerful enough to wipe out the mob when you land a critical (and if you don't land a crit, your magic smash should do the trick), therefore not leaving any mobs unkilled.
Personally I did not go critical, I'm using INT sets, and I do not plan on raising it until higher level boats come out to the NA version, where monsters do not flinch, thus just giving me more raw damage.
Hope this helped.
Statistically speaking, it's never a good idea to wear heavy armor if you're looking for more damage(On an Evie, just to clerify). At the end of the day the boss is all that matters. Compromising your main form of damage so you can nib normal mobs with physical damage is silly.
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SozenCratosFocker wrote on 2011-03-27 06:11
I see you've added some clarifications of common misconceptions to the OP, but you missed one: A crit does not guarantee knockback, the absence of a crit does not guarantee the absence of knockback, a crit only increases the already existing chance of knockback, and not by much. When you max crit, the increase in the chance of this "problem" occurring is even smaller than the barely noticeable increase in your damage.
Random conspiracy theory: all the people claiming crit is bad for scythes are just lanns trying to make themselves seem more useful in comparison, by convincing scythe users that dmg=bad.
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Mikey wrote on 2011-03-27 07:05
Quote from Amada;385825:
Statistically speaking, it's never a good idea to wear heavy armor if you're looking for more damage(On an Evie, just to clerify). At the end of the day the boss is all that matters. Compromising your main form of damage so you can nib normal mobs with physical damage is silly.
If we're talking about boss damage alone, then yes, an INT set with Crit mastery would be ideal. I'm just saying what I've discovered from playing my Evie in terms of dungeon mobs.
Quote from SozenCratosFocker;385827:
Random conspiracy theory: all the people claiming crit is bad for scythes are just lanns trying to make themselves seem more useful in comparison, by convincing scythe users that dmg=bad.
O.O;
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Mama wrote on 2011-03-27 15:20
Quote from SozenCratosFocker;385827:
Random conspiracy theory: all the people claiming crit is bad for scythes are just lanns trying to make themselves seem more useful in comparison, by convincing scythe users that dmg=bad.
cute!
the main problem was the appeal to authority. just because it came out of AfkAl's mouth, people embraced it uncritically with open arms and dubbed critical the devil not to be touched with a 10 foot pole. It was disappointing and frustrating to say the least.
im glad people are aware of both sides of the story now. I'm rather sick of hearing people make posts about how they ruined their evies and need to start over because they accidentally lvled crit to E.