Trigger, let's say that you're a player, not just any player, but a player that doesn't use mods, a player that values the game's high-risk, high-reward ventures; and a player that values prestige. These attributes are what defines the game's "fun" factor for him. Given the fact that this game has tens of thousands of players, the laws of probability would dictate the existence of at least a few of these players. It's likely that they (in this case, you) exist and are affected by the mods.
Let's say you're hunting rare items, for the sake of the prestige of having one and its looks. Let's say this item is the (formerly) coveted Stiff Knob Beret. In terms of function, it is the same as the Stiff Tail Cap, but only with an extra 5 durability. Compared to the overall availability of stiff caps in the game, an extra 5 durability shouldn't be much of a defining factor; if you fail-enchanted or repair a Stiff Tail Cap, another one should be relatively available. The defining factor for you would be the looks (remember, you don't image mod) and the rarity.
Let's take a minute to define what rarity is in video game terms. Something rare is, in a nutshell, something that either has a low probability of appearing or is difficult to obtain. Because of its rarity many wish to own it, but only a few can have it. Whether it is through luck or endeavor, if you obtain an incredibly rare and coveted item, you have obtained a bit of prestige just by having it.
The stiff knob beret is very rare, and the quest to obtain it is very difficult and strenuous, having this hat and strutting it in front of others would make you very happy, since it means that you're a bit more prestigious (at least in your eyes). You obtain it with a stroke of luck and you're feeling the urge to do a bit of strutting. When you hit town, you see a player shop full of them. The player who sets up shop, did it under the righteous guise of "making the rare item more available." What would you, the "you" in this scenario, think about this?
Regardless of them affecting other players or not, don't you think it's extremely unfair to the non-cheating and paying customers of Mabinogi Nexon, whatever version it is?
This does take out quite a lot of the paying advantage for their games.
Especially if you don't need service for the glitch, and you also don't need x2 exp potions for it anyway.
Not sure what is the big deal here though. A person hiding in some dungeon gaining a bunch of level legitly, and a person hiding in some dungeoning gaining a bunch of levels in a not so legit is still the same. They are still gaining levels.
If it takes away the paying advantage, I would ask again -- isn't that a good thing? If something screws Nexon out of some of their almighty cash, I'm all in favor. All they care about is getting your dollar. They have no concern for the players whatsoever.
That, and even if it WERE harming you, there's nothing you can do to stop them; so instead of making yourself feel miserable and bitter by complaining, why not just choose to ignore the illegitimate players or accept their chosen play style?
You act like if we don't state our opinions of disapproval, somehow we won't have them at all. As far as I've seen, everybody in this thread is speaking with a level head, nobody is going OMGWTFFF HOW CN THEY DO TIHSSSS!?!?!?!
This thread is good for informing people that there is a new exploit out there. For those of us that do care about legitimacy, we know not to buy from that store that has 6 Delicate caps now.
As far as "nothing can be done," I disagree with that. Although this is far fetched for the Mabi community, if all the players band together and shun those who cheat, then the damage that cheaters do can be negated. If a player is on a server-wide blacklist, with nobody buying, selling, or running with the cheaters, then they can't screw up our economy or take advantage of their higher levels. If even a small portion of players, say those who visit MabiNation, ignore cheaters, then it still makes a difference. Imagine trying to rank Blacksmith or Enchant when absolutely nobody will send you any materials of any sort, it's significantly harder. The only help they get is from Personal Shops which we can't really exclude them from.
Instead, those who are known to cheat, exploit, and scam are still welcome in the community. They still have fun, and they stick around. I honestly don't get why people just accept people like that, it's like watching some guy burn down a house and then let him in your front door.
I'd be a little disappointed and then get over it, and go look for my kicks elsewhere. I'm not immature enough to be insecure over something that trivial, nor do I fear having my accomplishments belittled. I mastered most of the seven spells before one-week rebirthing was available; you don't see me complaining that mages nowadays "have it way easier" do you? If I got it, I got it, and just because someone else has it easier doesn't mean I should feel any less competent or proud. Same goes for rare items.
I wouldn't go showing off my gear in the first place, but since this is a hypothetical scenario I won't beat that drum. =P
Also, by obtaining a lot of this rare item, the player has effectively altered the definition of "rare" (making this item no longer rare) and instead of whining about it I should just accept it because THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO TO CHANGE IT. What I cannot change is not worth complaining about, at least not on this small scale.
I think you've either read that wrong, or proved my point ^^;
I'm too tired to take this any further. It's probably not good for my health anyway.
Counterfeit money is always counterfeit because it was manufactured that way. An in-game item is an in-game item no matter who gets it or how -- it's not somehow magically "dirty" because the game doesn't have a system to make it so. Whether I get the item legit or not, the item is still the item, period. Any concept of "dirty" items you may have is purely the result of your own moral code, and arguments from morality are and always will be worthless. If you wish to abide by a code, that is your prerogative and yours alone.
Also there's a huge difference between arson and modifying a game client. Again, choose your real-life metaphors wisely.
Most of the things that DO affect them cannot be changed. So instead of complaining, accept reality for what it is, and live your life peacefully. Trust me, you'll find life a lot more enjoyable when you stop arguing with reality and start accepting it.
Naw, I answered properly, at least as far as I can tell. =P Whether something is rare or not shouldn't affect my pride at finally obtaining it after much effort. My effort is my effort and just because someone else had an easier time doesn't make my effort any less valid. If you feel your effort is invalidated by someone else's easier time, you're too insecure. That's all I'm saying.
Ok, then instead of counterfeiting I steal from a bank. Since we're talking about obtaining something that isn't rightfully earned, that analogy works. To make it more relatable, let's say the families of everybody who used that bank also dies inexplicably, so no third party is getting hurt (since they're dead).
You're my employee, I pay you with the stolen money. Now what? You don't get to spend it, because it's stolen. Maybe you're not in the wrong since you didn't steal it or know it was stolen, but in the end you don't get reimbursed, you just get shafted.
Also, saying an argument from morality is worthless is complete nonsense. If I ask you "why shouldn't I kill this man, steal that woman's stuff, and do whatever I please?" then you're going to respond with a load of moral reasons why.
Notice I mentioned scammers. Scammers who take away something that you worked long and hard for, out of your wallet or out of your home. The point was that people just accept wrong-doers back into the community as if nothing happened. Maybe they'll reserve themselves a bit more, but they're still accepting.
As far as killing in a game, now you're the one who isn't noting a huge difference. Killing somebody in real life is actual killing, but "killing" somebody in a game doesn't actually deprive them of anything. In that sense, killing and "killing" aren't the same. However, stealing is still stealing - whether something is virtual or material, it's still something that I own that is being taken from me.
I'm sure human rights people would have loved that mentality. The fact that we have no rights (which affects me) can't be changed, I should just accept it and live.
How do we know if something can't be changed if we don't try? Just because you have no faith in Nexon doesn't mean they are incapable of action. It's a long shot, but there's no harm in trying.
You didn't. The point was that you're only speaking from your own perspective. You don't care about some things that other people do. Likewise, I'm sure I don't care about some things that you do. Rime wants people to speak in consideration of everybody's preferences, not just one person or group. All you did was project your own personality onto the hypothetical person.
False; bills possess identification that can be used to determine if they were stolen or not. In-game items possess no such thing. Their legit/non-legit origins do not have any effect on the actual item outside your own moral concept of right and wrong. If I purchase a signed Dustin Armor from a blacksmith who's using the perfect-finish mod to make perfect items, does the presence of an illegitimate means of creation cause lower stats or less usefulness? Not at all. I lose nothing, whereas your metaphor of stolen money causes the possessor of the stolen bills to lose said stolen bills.
The "killing" metaphor was made to point out just how poor your real-life-vs.-virtual-reality metaphors were, not to contribute to the actual discussion. In analyzing it as you have, you have merely strengthened my point.
You said it yourself, it's a long shot. They've accomplished virtually nothing and they rarely even try for that matter. Most of their moves are purely political, a few token temporary bans here and there to scare the less knowledgeable players into temporary submission. They have neither the manpower nor the willpower to do a real crackdown on anything. All the mods and exploits they've fixed have simply given way to more mods and exploits.
True, I was only speaking from my personal view, but I for one do not understand how someone can possibly be insecure just because someone happens to be accomplishing something more easily. There is no rational reason for doing so.
@Yogurticecream: THANK YOU for bringing this discussion to the final point. You have wrapped up every bit of complaining and whining ever done by every person who has ever lived with four words:
"I'm not happy seeing..."
That is the problem. The human level of happiness should not be dependent on the actions and moral choices of OTHER individuals -- especially here, where you don't actually know the people on the other side of the screen! THE ONLY PERSON YOU CAN CONTROL IS YOURSELF.
Most things people complain about in-game do not actually affect them. Most of the things that DO affect them cannot be changed. So instead of complaining, accept reality for what it is, and live your life peacefully. Trust me, you'll find life a lot more enjoyable when you stop arguing with reality and start accepting it.
And I don't see a lot of people moving to do something because of their unhappiness, do you?
Respectfully declining is completely understandable. If an exploit user will be taking the fun out of the game for you, there's no reason for you to bother going along with him.
Destroying an item just because you later found out it was obtained illegitimately is, may I say, retarded. =P Regardless of whether or not the seller got it via legit means, you paid for it properly and thus it is legit to you (i.e. you didn't use illegitimate means yourself). You can't hold yourself responsible for the morals of others.
Like I said, if it takes away from the fun, it's bogus. If mods and exploits aren't fun to you, don't use them or involve yourself with them. If they enhance the experience for you, go for it. It's a game -- the point is to have fun while letting everyone else do the same thing. Fun that prevents others from having fun is the only kind of fun that shouldn't be allowed.