New Exploit?

• Yogurticecream wrote on 2010-05-20 09:54
  If I'm not mistaken, this exploit also exists everywhere else.
  Just that not many knows about it.
  However, the increasing amount of people wanting to learn synthesis is making me worry a little.
  I've seen a couple of keys lying around the altar of both shadow dungeons, even from a long time ago.
• Juno wrote on 2010-05-22 00:21
  Well, Martyr is officially doing it. I was talking to one of them and she said that "Leader and a few of his friends know it." She also said that she hadn't been taken yet but that said leader had ranked Synth from novice to C in this manner. Of course, 3 of the 4 ingredients were lying on the altar like in the other screenshots.
  
  She said that it's a glitch, not a mod, though honestly I don't really know if I should trust that especially given the inability of anyone else to recreate it.
  
  This kind of implies that it's not public knowledge as she didn't know herself which means the odds of us finding out without a whistle blower are low.
• Archibald wrote on 2010-05-22 02:04
  Someone told me how they thought it works from thier CN friends but he tested and thier same method didnt work,
• Trigger wrote on 2010-05-22 02:21

  Quote from Juno;36957:

  Read that essay back when it was posted Trigger, and frankly it lost a lot of steam when Nexon stepped up their game soon thereafter. They're still not where we'd like them to be but your assessment is no longer accurate.

  
  
  If you call their recent actions "stepping up their game" then imho their game in the past was beyond intolerable, because it's still crap right now. They're still playing our little reverse-engineering war, and they're losing as usual -- soon as they clean up one minor mess, we make five more.
  
  
  

  Quote from Juno;36957:

  As for the more general statements, the introduction of rare by design elements into the market en masse is not to be taken lightly. In this case there's not much of a threat in that department so the impact to us is minimal...hence why I think it's not worth making public or turning it into a larger problem than it is.

  
  
  Not to be taken lightly, sure, but my point was that it decreases prices for everyone, which is something nobody ought to be complaining about. Basic supply-and-demand economics, you know.
  
  
  

  Quote from Juno;36957:

  However I disagree that we lose all legitimate reason to oppose it if it's not directly hurting us. I won't bother trying to change your minds on the matter since it's probably a lost cause; our differences probably arise from different perspectives rather than one of us having a faulty thought pattern. I will say that it makes it very difficult to maintain respect for people when they use these methods to advance themselves. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't show off like they had worked hard to accomplish something when in truth they were using underhanded methods like this.

  
  
  You're right, we just differ there. My opinion has always been "live and let live"; if it doesn't hurt me, why am I whining about it?
  
  As far as noobs getting super powerful using exploits, I will say this -- most people who abuse exploits are ALREADY powerful, and are using said exploits out of boredom or convenience. I level on the river because it's fast, not because I would be unable to achieve my weekly levels any other way. Any sudden "rises to power" you see are likely due to weekly rebirthing, as has already been stated. Exploits may or may not be part of it, but weekly rebirthing is far more of a factor in power accumulation than exploits are.
  
  
  

  Quote from Juno;36957:

  Reminds me of this guy I met in Dunbarton once around the time duels were released. A mutual friend introduced us and we got along pretty well. He was a fledgling mage at the time wearing average equips and lacking confidence in his abilities; it was rather cute actually. We had a little duel even though the only spell I knew was lightning bolt and it was pretty fun. Nowadays he's three times my total level at least and has capped all magic skills. He's repeatedly shown himself to take advantage of anything and everything...from one-charge fireball to all the rest of it. We don't really talk much anymore as he kind of alienated himself from us in the process of this so the only time I see him is when he's river glitching. It's obvious he's quite proud of himself...but he's not the same person he once was nor has he gained any respect from us in doing this. I doubt he cares though, so w/e makes him happy I guess. But I really wish it hadn't happened or at least I hadn't found out about it.

  
  
  I'd ask who this guy was, but you probably don't want to drop names. The qualifier of "capped all magic skills" does make me raise my eyebrows though -- there aren't many Ruairians who can lay claim to that.
• Juno wrote on 2010-05-22 02:54

  Quote from Trigger:

  If you call their recent actions "stepping up their game" then imho their game in the past was beyond intolerable, because it's still crap right now. They're still playing our little reverse-engineering war, and they're losing as usual -- soon as they clean up one minor mess, we make five more.
  

  
  
  Agreed.
  
  

  Not to be taken lightly, sure, but my point was that it decreases prices for everyone, which is something nobody ought to be complaining about. Basic supply-and-demand economics, you know.

  
  
  That depends. Is my quality of game life improved by everyone having access to rare-by-design equipment at bargain prices or do I see it as a devaluation of effort etc. In terms of the money you're right, but that's hardly the most important thing.
  
  

  You're right, we just differ there. My opinion has always been "live and let live"; if it doesn't hurt me, why am I whining about it?
  
  As far as noobs getting super powerful using exploits, I will say this -- most people who abuse exploits are ALREADY powerful, and are using said exploits out of boredom or convenience. I level on the river because it's fast, not because I would be unable to achieve my weekly levels any other way. Any sudden "rises to power" you see are likely due to weekly rebirthing, as has already been stated. Exploits may or may not be part of it, but weekly rebirthing is far more of a factor in power accumulation than exploits are.

  
  
  I dunno, Iesuok coming to guild battle at like lvl 114 [in a week, no less] does not seem like something that can be replicated outside of fireball spamming at the MT. For the most part you're right, but some exploits make them more powerful than legit players can possibly achieve [godshot] and others like the one in question can combine with weekly rebirths for an amazing AP burst that probably could not be replicated using legit methods and definitely not without extreme effort.
  
  When it comes down to it though, I'm not too concerned with the likes of the already powerful. People have been getting undeserved levels ever since godmode was first used. I just don't want to see that become the norm, where you have to be using an exploit to have any hope of staying on par. That's one reason I'm against making this public.
• NewbieNub wrote on 2010-05-22 03:44
  Even if you've made this glitch OR mod public, what are the chances that Nexon NA would care and fix it before it's too late?
• Trigger wrote on 2010-05-22 03:56

  Quote from Juno;41186:

  That depends. Is my quality of game life improved by everyone having access to rare-by-design equipment at bargain prices or do I see it as a devaluation of effort etc. In terms of the money you're right, but that's hardly the most important thing.

  
  
  Well as I pointed out in my little essay, there's two sides to the coin. On the one hand everyone pays less, which is good. On the other hand, the people who are getting the items and selling them are making less, which is bad. The reason I choose to disregard the latter half of this analysis is that methods of making money are ALWAYS coming and going, especially with Gachapon updates and new content being implemented.
  
  Besides that, the people who will be losing the most are the people who are using this Shadow Mission exploit, because they are causing the deflation to begin with -- they're selling mass quantities of this particular rare item and having to lower their prices because there is so much supply. The people who will be HURT the most are the few non-exploiters who bothered to put in the time and effort to get the rare stuff legitimately, and those people are few indeed, because the exploiters will make it non-worthwhile to do so ever again, meaning the legit players will make money another way. In the end there is no real harm except to a select few, and benefits across the board for everyone.
  
  
  
  

  Quote from Juno;41186:

  I dunno, Iesuok coming to guild battle at like lvl 114 [in a week, no less] does not seem like something that can be replicated outside of fireball spamming at the MT. For the most part you're right, but some exploits make them more powerful than legit players can possibly achieve [godshot] and others like the one in question can combine with weekly rebirths for an amazing AP burst that probably could not be replicated using legit methods and definitely not without extreme effort.
  
  When it comes down to it though, I'm not too concerned with the likes of the already powerful. People have been getting undeserved levels ever since godmode was first used. I just don't want to see that become the norm, where you have to be using an exploit to have any hope of staying on par. That's one reason I'm against making this public.

  
  
  Level 114 is very possible in a week's time, provided you have the dedication and time, as you said. Most don't bother spending that much time, but it's possible. If I leveled "legit" I could still do 60/20 in a single day; used to do it all the time before G7 areas were available. Gimme a couple more days and I'd be around 100 or higher if I kept leveling at the same rate. I'd never spend that much time because it'd bore me out of my mind, but it'd be possible -- and that just lends more weight to my previous statement, that players don't use exploits because they give them power, but because they are convenient and lessen time requirements.
  
  The much-touted SoG mod, which is no longer around, made things so unfairly broken in PvP, but how many people used it to grind to insane levels? I would wager only a few. They'd still have had to spam dungeons to get those levels, and with practical invincibility, dungeoning for hours on end would become so insanely boring as to make ME quit for sure, although I can't speak for anyone else. Reminds me of the 1-charge Fireball days -- even though doing something like Alby Advanced was SO EASY, it was boring to do it more than once or twice just because it was that easy. (Besides, the people with the SoG mod mostly had the 1-charge FB mod as well, and 1-charge FB was better for leveling anyway.)
  
  In the end, the biggest differential in power comes from weekly rebirthing.
• Juno wrote on 2010-05-22 04:24
  If suddenly silver ore dropped from trees, would everyone benefit? You seem to only be looking at this from a market perspective...which doesn't take into account whether or not the integrity of the game is compromised. I can't say that you're wrong, but I do think there's a problem you aren't addressing.
  
  I'm aware that's it's possible to hit lvl 60 in a day or what not, but just because it's possible to do it playing 24/7 doesn't dilute the act of doing it without playing at all. Yes, it is more convenient to do it that way. No, most people aren't going to hit those levels without the help of illegit methods. As you said, it'd be boring to play that much. Knowing that, it's very possible that people use said exploits for power they would otherwise not been willing to work for.
  
  A weekly rebirther is around 2.5x stronger than a free player in terms of AP gain. A weekly rebirther using exploits can on average be 2x as strong as a normal weekly. A free player using exploits likely will keep up with a legit weekly. When you combine weekly rebirthing with exploits such as this Dorren's business, that's when things get serious. AP is only so good though in a game with skill caps though; Access to rare and powerful equipment is the deciding factor and that's clearly in favor of the illegit...even infinite dedication can't keep up.
  
  And then there are the more pvp oriented exploits as you mentioned. Those are like nuking a dead horse .-.
• Trigger wrote on 2010-05-22 04:44
  Probably because I don't give a damn about "game integrity". =P So long as I'm having fun and not causing problems for other people (assuming those people aren't LOOKING for problems), I'm good with it. If silver ore dropped from trees I'd say "lucky for the people who are refining or blacksmithing" and get on with my game. It's a change -- change happens all the time, whether player-driven or Nexon-driven. The concept of game integrity is an argument from morality (is it "right" or "wrong" to mess with the way the game is played?), and my essay pretty much covered that.
  
  
  No exploit-using free player will keep up with a legit weekly if the legit weekly is any good at the game. 60/20 weekly means that the free player would have to use his exploits to achieve 180/60, and since exploration is capped at 25, this means the exploit user would have to get to 215/25 in three weeks to compensate and obtain the same amount of AP as the weekly rebirther. Even with a relatively low weekly level of 40, the exploiting free player is required to get to 155/25 within three weeks to keep up. While POSSIBLE given three weeks between rebirths, most free players have neither the time nor the resources to pull off levels like that, and those few that do would probably rather spend their time elsewhere.
  
  
  You're right, exploits are used to obtain levels that normally would not be achieved otherwise. One-charge Fireball is probably the best example of this. But that is merely a subset of convenience -- because it's so easy, it's easily abused.
  
  
  Personally I have no problem with spamming single-charge Fireballs to level. It's the packet-editing botters at the mana tunnels that severely annoyed me, because they had no concern for the legit players trying to raft. If someone decides to stand on the river and spam Fireball, that's fine, so long as they don't interfere with people who are playing the way the game was "intended" to play -- whether due to moral disposition or just not wanting to give people the ability to complain. I mean, so what if someone gets better than me because of abusing a bunch of exploits? Does that matter that much? I deliberately refrain from interfering with rafters (hell I've even assisted a few with Hobgoblins that had boarded their rafts) because 1) I'd want the same treatment and 2) they have no real reason to complain that I'm "abusing a glitch" when it does not affect them in the slightest. If I were actively preventing them from reaching their goal, then they'd have something to whine about.
  
  
  Again, I have no problem with exploits, mods, or glitches, so long as you use them without causing undue trouble for other people.
  
  
  If I suddenly started selling *insert rare item here*, I doubt most people would think twice, and buyers would be grateful that the item was available on the market. The moment someone found out I was using *insert exploit here* to get said items though, there would be a massive moral argument over buying the items.
  
  
  I find that kind of thinking stupid and pointless, no offense to anyone here. It's a game! It's the item some people are looking for. If they want it and I have it, does it really matter? If you don't want it, does it matter to you anyway? No, not really. If you bought it without knowing it was gotten illegitimately and later found out about it, would you destroy the item because it wasn't legit? I can almost guarantee you wouldn't.
• AnnabelleMarie wrote on 2010-05-22 05:10
  interesting read o3o.../pets trigger
  
  note to self add this to my not to do list for guild C:
• Trigger wrote on 2010-05-22 05:14

  Quote from AnnabelleMarie;41253:

  interesting read o3o.../pets trigger
  
  note to self add this to my not to do list for guild C:

  
  
  Why so "not to do"? Discussions like this are the best kind 'cause they make people think about stuff they normally wouldn't think twice about. Most people don't know WHY they believe what they believe; they just blindly believe.
• Juno wrote on 2010-05-22 06:03

  Quote from Trigger:

  If you bought it without knowing it was gotten illegitimately and later found out about it, would you destroy the item because it wasn't legit? I can almost guarantee you wouldn't.

  
  
  I was the person that respectfully declined to do egg prot or shining statues with people abusing one charge fireball etc. If I actually bought high price items more often I probably would have ended up in that situation.
  
  To me, the fun is not in having all the endgame items but in getting them. There's no point to it if I just bypass the game itself.
• Trigger wrote on 2010-05-22 07:08

  Quote from Juno;41274:

  I was the person that respectfully declined to do egg prot or shining statues with people abusing one charge fireball etc. If I actually bought high price items more often I probably would have ended up in that situation.
  
  To me, the fun is not in having all the endgame items but in getting them. There's no point to it if I just bypass the game itself.

  
  
  Respectfully declining is completely understandable. If an exploit user will be taking the fun out of the game for you, there's no reason for you to bother going along with him.
  
  Destroying an item just because you later found out it was obtained illegitimately is, may I say, retarded. =P Regardless of whether or not the seller got it via legit means, you paid for it properly and thus it is legit to you (i.e. you didn't use illegitimate means yourself). You can't hold yourself responsible for the morals of others.
  
  Like I said, if it takes away from the fun, it's bogus. If mods and exploits aren't fun to you, don't use them or involve yourself with them. If they enhance the experience for you, go for it. It's a game -- the point is to have fun while letting everyone else do the same thing. Fun that prevents others from having fun is the only kind of fun that shouldn't be allowed.
• Rime wrote on 2010-05-22 07:57
  If we could get whatever we wanted from this game without so much as trying, our playing the game would honestly be no different than simply watching pretty items and big numbers while we feeding Nexon its due to experience more of this "fun" we're having. "Fun" is what games are all about, right?
  
  I've been reading a few of your posts on mod and glitch abusing, and quite frankly, I'm appalled. But I'm not so much appalled at your attitude towards abusing the game mechanics; I'm appalled that you're still playing this game if you're so bored of it. Is it that enjoyable to sit around for two hours and to repeatedly spam a single skill? If it's just a game that you're playing, have you really accomplished anything by leveling to whatever in those two hours? Couldn't you have done something better with your time? Don't bother answering. I already know your answer. In fact, if anyone here has ever debated here before on the issue of modding, I can probably predict what they're going to say. This is a huge problem if we want to debate about something and come to an actual conclusion.
  
  The problem with all this debating, as I see it, is that we all seem to be arguing based on our personal ideals showing little empathy to the ones we argue against, and that form of thought usually leads us in circles; it's probably true that this lack of empathy really is the root of all our evils. But, I don't think this situation is not without a little bit hope; I think this situation can be a little rectified by a change of perspective. After all, Juno said that, given the integrity of our form of thought, our longstanding attitudes and perspective really defines our stances; I'm willing to take this a little further and say that they're also responsible for our unwillingness to approach these moral dilemma with empathy.
  
  So, let's mix it up a bit. Let's take off our shoes, which have been worn and tattered from experience, and put on someone else' for a minute. Given the fact that you're able to so easily tell what should and shouldn't be in this game, Trigger, I'm willing to think that you can back up your dictum by being able to empathize with most other players. If they hold true, all other players, and not just the ones that find it enjoyable to play by cutting the fat out of the game, can honestly have fun with the game by using your rationalizations.
  
  Trigger, let's say that you're a player, not just any player, but a player that doesn't use mods, a player that values the game's high-risk, high-reward ventures; and a player that values prestige. These attributes are what defines the game's "fun" factor for him. Given the fact that this game has tens of thousands of players, the laws of probability would dictate the existence of at least a few of these players. It's likely that they (in this case, you) exist and are affected by the mods.
  
  Let's say you're hunting rare items, for the sake of the prestige of having one and its looks. Let's say this item is the (formerly) coveted Stiff Knob Beret. In terms of function, it is the same as the Stiff Tail Cap, but only with an extra 5 durability. Compared to the overall availability of stiff caps in the game, an extra 5 durability shouldn't be much of a defining factor; if you fail-enchanted or repair a Stiff Tail Cap, another one should be relatively available. The defining factor for you would be the looks (remember, you don't image mod) and the rarity.
  
  Let's take a minute to define what rarity is in video game terms. Something rare is, in a nutshell, something that either has a low probability of appearing or is difficult to obtain. Because of its rarity many wish to own it, but only a few can have it. Whether it is through luck or endeavor, if you obtain an incredibly rare and coveted item, you have obtained a bit of prestige just by having it.
  
  The stiff knob beret is very rare, and the quest to obtain it is very difficult and strenuous, having this hat and strutting it in front of others would make you very happy, since it means that you're a bit more prestigious (at least in your eyes). You obtain it with a stroke of luck and you're feeling the urge to do a bit of strutting. When you hit town, you see a player shop full of them. The player who sets up shop, did it under the righteous guise of "making the rare item more available." What would you, the "you" in this scenario, think about this?
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-05-22 08:21
  Well, at least all that debating and whatever brings light to a glitch that people never knew before. Allowing others to do their own research, and take advantage of such glitch once they find it.
  
  Similar to how a certain formerly unknown Japanese game being spread throughout the internet because the media is talking how bad it is.
  
  Not sure what is the big deal here though. A person hiding in some dungeon gaining a bunch of level legitly, and a person hiding in some dungeoning gaining a bunch of levels in a not so legit is still the same. They are still gaining levels.
  
  If they are doing it in some Shadow Mission/dungeons, which are isolated from other players, it is pretty hard for them to directly affect other players. It is pretty hard to tell what levels are players are without the use of mods.