Post your skill ranks/character stats.

• radionoise wrote on 2012-01-05 20:13

  Quote from Spider;723788:

  for martial arts isnt it giants>elves>humans. elves gain more will per level up and falcon trans gives 200 will +30max.

  
  
  Elves do not get more will per level up (except when comparing freebirth human vs freebirth elf). Elves also have like 30 less will than humans and 50 less will than giants... as well as slightly lower multiplier for the chain mastery and higher cooldown when compared to giant.
  
  Giant > Human > Elf for the most part. They're all not too far apart, though... and practically speaking it's more like Giant > Human = Elf and you'd be hard pressed to find the difference other than maybe a slightly higher number here and three on the favor of humans.
• Spider wrote on 2012-01-05 20:43

  Quote from radionoise;723802:

  Elves do not get more will per level up (except when comparing freebirth human vs freebirth elf). Elves also have like 30 less will than humans and 50 less will than giants... as well as slightly lower multiplier for the chain mastery and higher cooldown when compared to giant.
  
  Giant > Human > Elf for the most part. They're all not too far apart, though... and practically speaking it's more like Giant > Human = Elf and you'd be hard pressed to find the difference other than maybe a slightly higher number here and three on the favor of humans.

  
  
  i believe 3 will=1max and so a falcon elf has 96.66 max more than a dark knight. when using a skill like drop kick which has an 800% modifier, the damage difference is 773.33 max(96.66 x 8). That seems like a pretty big difference between elves and humans.
• radionoise wrote on 2012-01-05 20:49

  Quote from Spider;723838:

  i believe 3 will=1max and so a falcon elf has 96.66 max more than a dark knight. when using a skill like drop kick which has an 800% modifier, the damage difference is 773.33 max(96.66 x 8). That seems like a pretty big difference between elves and humans.

  
  
  That is in trans... trans doesn't matter. Besides, a Falcon only gets 41 more max damage to martial arts than a paladin (+150 will -4 max if you substract Pally's boosts) and humans already have like 30+ more will than elves to begin with and they also can achieve more will through leveling (0.75 vs 0.5)... oh, and there's the 10% lower overall damage output due to a reduced multiplier in chain mastery. And that minor boost that isn't even enough to make elves deal more damage than humans only lasts 6 minutes. You were saying?
  
  Comparing against DK is irrelevant for the same reason DKs always use... "why does it matter if DK sucks if it lasts forever?"
  
  I maintain that the differences are not big enough to make humans all that much better than elves to the point where an elf would be called "weak" or make a martial artist elf not viable, but saying that an elf will be better at it than a human is simply not true. Even the beloved "elf speed" gets nerfed to the same level as a human's when wearing knuckles.
• Spider wrote on 2012-01-05 20:56

  Quote from radionoise;723840:

  That is in trans... trans doesn't matter. Besides, a Falcon only gets 41 more max damage to martial arts than a paladin (+150 will - 4 max if you substract Pally's boosts) and humans already have like 30+ more will than elves to begin with and they also can achieve more will through leveling (0.75 vs 0.5)... oh, and there's the 10% lower overall damage output due to a reduced multiplier in chain mastery. And that minor boost that isn't even enough to make elves deal more damage than humans only lasts 6 minutes. You were saying?

  
  
  Humans have +13 will from final hit only. Also age 17 is the best age to compare the 2 races as thats the most common age the majority of players will be at and so humans gain 0.25 will while elves gain 0.5 will per level. Also falcon has 46 more damage than paladin. The 10% change in overall damage does not add up to the higher max damage that an elf gains in trans. outside of trans the 2 are closer but in trans its guaranteed a win for elves.
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2012-01-05 21:01

  Quote from Cheerios;723729:

  Or because your statement about AR was so ridiculous i rather laugh at it than bother answering. Anyway here's a tip
  
  Melee : giants > humans
  Archery : elves > humans
  magic : elves > humans > giants
  alchemy : all equal
  martial arts : giants > humans > elves
  
  Overall dmg output : elves > giants > humans
  
  AR buff was a simple dog treat to humans, elves and giants still have the upper hand on both playstyles and the gap keeps widening as time passes.
  Lances and sniper title for example, even though both can be worn by humans too, giants take much more profit than humans with lances same as elves with sniper title.

  
  
  AR is supposed to a "simple dog treat" to humans yet Lances for giants are not? I thought giants were complaining about how useless lances are.
  
  I can make comparisons as well!
  
  Melee: Human > Elves
  Range: Human > Giants
  Magic: They are more or less equal. Movement speed is different, but doesn't affect magic damage.
  Alchemy: Why you say equal when you say Magic is not equal?
  
  Is there any reason to play Giant or Elves if Human are better than the stuff that Giant/Elf are supposed to specialized in?
  
  Throughout the generations, Humans are just getting better and better. (Other races get different buffs as well, but not all the time) Devcat made almost every update benefit humans somehow in one way or another. (Yes, that would include Lances, Sniper Title, and future Martial Art skills)
  
  

  Quote from Syrion;723714:

  primary target damage
  and for a continuous chain u need 30 ice dragons, which is like 500k+ nx and insane Micro
  tho u can achieve similar effects for short periods
  
  tho sub ~400 range CS will still execute at shorter intervals

  
  
  Do you really need that much WM/CS to kill one set of monster? 30 dragons of freeze is like 1 whole minute of total freeze. Also, if you are fighting something that strong, have everyone just summon dragons in different cycles. 8 ppl = 8 dragons at least if everyone owns one dragon.
  
  Also, neither WM or Ice Dragon summon has a limit of monsters you can affect at one time.
• radionoise wrote on 2012-01-05 21:02

  Quote from Spider;723847:

  Humans have +13 will from final hit only. Also age 17 is the best age to compare the 2 races as thats the most common age the majority of players will be at and so humans gain 0.25 will while elves gain 0.5 will per level. Also falcon has 46 more damage than paladin. The 10% change in overall damage does not add up to the higher max damage that an elf gains in trans. outside of trans the 2 are closer but in trans its guaranteed a win for elves.

  
  
  Age 17 Elf with capped will: 243
  Age 17 Human with capped will: 287
  
  howdoes44willbecome13? ordidyoujustforgetaboutlances
  
  Also, even at super high levels humans will have more will even at a bad age for martial arts such as 17.
  Also, falcon is 41 more max than paladin not 46.
  Also, how does 10% higher damage output when you have 500~600+ max damage not beat 41 max (assuming that for some magic reason elves would have same base will as human).
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2012-01-05 21:06

  Quote from radionoise;723853:

  Age 17 Elf with capped will: 243
  Age 17 Human with capped will: 287
  

  
  
  If 10 will = 4 dmg, that is merely around 18 max damage...
  
  If you really do have 500+ max damage with martial arts, you won't notice the difference of 18 max damage.
• radionoise wrote on 2012-01-05 21:07

  Quote from EndlessDreams;723856:

  If 10 will = 4 dmg, that is merely around 18 max damage...
  
  If you really do have 500+ max damage with martial arts, you won't notice the difference of 18 max damage.

  
  
  Yea that's the exact point I'm trying to get across to him. Humans and elves are pretty close with martial arts, but saying an elf will ever be better at it is just nonsense.
• Spider wrote on 2012-01-05 21:10

  Quote from radionoise;723853:

  Age 17 Elf with capped will: 243
  Age 17 Human with capped will: 287
  
  howdoes44willbecome13? ordidyoujustforgetaboutlances
  
  Also, even at super high levels humans will have more will even at a bad age for martial arts such as 17.
  Also, falcon is 41 more max than paladin not 46.
  Also, how does 10% higher damage output when you have 500~600+ max damage not beat 41 max (assuming that for some magic reason elves would have same base will as human).

  
  
  k i admit i got the base will wrong(forgot about lance charge). However falcons still have a huge damage gain compared to Dks, and also beat paladins in max damage. Also the chain mastery difference between the 2 races for lets say the skill drop kick is humans=1040% and elves 960%. If a falcon elf has say 400max then the damage is 3840, paladins have 359max so damage is 3733, and DKs would b at 303 max with damage at 3154. So in trans that difference in max damage between falcons and paladins come close, however those that chose Dk are left behind by quite abit.
  
  Basically im saying elves beat humans in trans. outside of trans humans may be abit better.
• Cheerios wrote on 2012-01-05 21:14

  Quote from EndlessDreams;723850:

  AR is supposed to a "simple dog treat" to humans yet Lances for giants are not? I thought giants were complaining about how useless lances are.
  How many giants use lances? How many humans use lances? Who can wear lance + shield? Im not even going to mention the force walk after using the skills since atm its glitched for both races.
  
  I can make comparisons as well!
  
  Melee: Human > Elves
  Range: Human > Giants
  thanks captain obvious, i really didn't knew that
  Magic: They are more or less equal. Movement speed is different, but doesn't affect magic damage.
  Alchemy: Why you say equal when you say Magic is not equal?
  Giants have lower MP capacity and use more mp than elves in terms of magic, what you're doing with magic with an giant an elf can do the same without using that much MP, not the case with alchemy. Sure you can use the higher stamina pools for giants than for elves but then, learn to cypress.
  
  Is there any reason to play Giant or Elves if Human are better than the stuff that Giant/Elf are supposed to specialized in?
  Where did i said humans should match giants or elves on their skills?
  What i said is the gap between humans and elves/giants is widening even more. At this point its better to be a range/melee elf hybrid than an melee/range human hybrid
  
  Throughout the generations, Humans are just getting better and better. (Other races get different buffs as well, but not all the time) Devcat made almost every update benefit humans somehow in one way or another. (Yes, that would include Lances, Sniper Title, and future Martial Art skills).
  Once again you distorted what i said, I never mentioned humans weren't being buffed at the same time elves and giants were. The issue is the growth rate of each races and how devcat makes humans have the same thing as giants and humans off pity.
  

  
  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/bEso]

  
  
  @will
  Elves, in free rebirth and non trans need to be over lv 125 to beat humans in martial arts destiny.
  for paladins, Power of order adds 50 will and sword of order adds 34 max
  turning that max into will, 34 max = 102 will and thus humans get 152 will for trans.
  
  Considering the current elf and human will
  

  Current Human Total (Max): 259 Will
  Current Elf Total (Max): 223 Will
  Current Giant Total (Max): 272 Will
  

  
  
  Elves in trans will have 423 while humans will have 411
  
  Elves will have +4 max than humans in trans
• radionoise wrote on 2012-01-05 21:23

  Quote from Spider;723862:

  k i admit i got the base will wrong(forgot about lance charge). However falcons still have a huge damage gain compared to Dks, and also beat paladins in max damage. Also the chain mastery difference between the 2 races for lets say the skill drop kick is humans=1040% and elves 960%. If a falcon elf has say 400max then the damage is 3840, paladins have 359max so damage is 3733, and DKs would b at 303 max with damage at 3154. So in trans that difference in max damage between falcons and paladins come close, however those that chose Dk are left behind by quite abit.
  
  Basically im saying elves beat humans in trans. outside of trans humans may be abit better.

  
  
  That would be true if 400 max was the only damage you could get. But it's not.
  
  The new knuckles have insane damage and people in KR already have 500+ max without trans alone... so even elf trans is ultimately not enough to beat a paladin human, and DKs don't really matter because even if they suck "they last forever" and the same could be said for Range about them.
  
  

  Quote from Cheerios;723866:

  Elves in trans will have 423 while humans will have 411
  
  Elves will have +4 max than humans in trans

  
  
  Without taking base will into account and only the transformations, elf trans is 41 more max than paladin trans... or 150 will more than paladins but 4 max damage less from the dmg skill (sword of order vs fury of connous).
• radionoise wrote on 2012-01-05 21:32

  Quote from Cheerios;723866:

  Elves in trans will have 423 while humans will have 411
  
  Elves will have +4 max than humans in trans

  
  
  Without taking base will into account, elf trans is 41 more max than paladin trans... or 150 will more than humans but 4 max damage less (sword of order vs fury of connous).
• Spider wrote on 2012-01-05 21:35

  Quote from Cheerios;723866:

  [Image: http://puu.sh/bEso]

  
  
  @will
  Elves, in free rebirth and non trans need to be over lv 125 to beat humans in martial arts destiny.
  for paladins, Power of order adds 50 will and sword of order adds 34 max
  turning that max into will, 34 max = 102 will and thus humans get 152 will for trans.
  
  Considering the current elf and human will
  
  
  Elves in trans will have 423 while humans will have 411
  
  Elves will have +4 max than humans in trans

  
  
  paladins arent the only human trans. probably around half the humans went DK. also falcons get the additional +30max from fury of connous
• Cheerios wrote on 2012-01-05 21:36

  Quote from Spider;723900:

  paladins arent the only human trans. probably around half the humans went DK.

  
  
  they get less ofc since they don't get will or max from trans
• abc33kr wrote on 2012-01-05 21:52
  such a fierce debate going on here.