is it normal for a lann to be contributing only 1 - 6% of the boss damage?

• MareneCorp wrote on 2011-08-24 17:23
  Then, what would be the better Lann, Sword or spear? I personally like spears because I can time most of my dodges right and still do pretty nice damage, whereas Swords people say have a higher survival rate (no-skiller?).
  
  Edit: If everyone thinks it's swords, I'm going to tryand grab a party of Spears and prove that wrong. :mad3:
  
  Seriously though, which one is better?
• Invertex wrote on 2011-08-24 18:27

  Quote from MareneCorp;564003:

  Then, what would be the better Lann, Sword or spear? I personally like spears because I can time most of my dodges right and still do pretty nice damage, whereas Swords people say have a higher survival rate (no-skiller?).
  
  Edit: If everyone thinks it's swords, I'm going to tryand grab a party of Spears and prove that wrong. :mad3:
  
  Seriously though, which one is better?

  
  
  I'm sorry, but I have to say Sword anyways. The default roll is not sufficient at all for the later raid bosses. Foreignreign already stated that Spear Lann can only effectively DPS when the boss is constantly being immobilized. While a good half or so of the raid bosses as of now (Titan, Ingkells, and Glas) have their moments, the problem is that the boss is never immobile 100% of the time.
  
  Titan is just too hard for most Spear Lanns to dodge while maintaining DPS. But with a good pair of ballistae users, you should be free to spin2win for the majority of the raid.
  
  Thor you can spin2win hit and run, but it's usually not used as often as his charge will kill you if he targets you (and Spears do a lot of hits, which draws aggro), that and you really have no choice but to die if he really wants you dead.
  
  Ingkells is one raid I'd use spears on, it'll work wonders on his backup, and half of Ingkell's moves miss you anyways.
  
  Aghlan I'd say either would work. Most of his normal moves are extremely slow and therefore relatively easy to dodge (it is MUCH easier with Slip Dash though), and the major threat is his WM. Slip dashing out of it works, but since you can roll cancel and start running away with Spears, it should even out.
  
  Glas I'd still disagree with spears. He spends 1-2 minutes stunned in a good run, and about 10 more doing his annoying projectiles and long ranged sword slashes. That and you'd have no easy way to stay on Glas while still being able to dodge out in time. The DPS windows on Glas are really meant for burst DPS anyways, which is why Hammer Fiona is so good for damage.
  
  The short version
  Swords - Titan, Thor, Aghlan, Glas
  Spears - Titan (if you really trust your party), Aghlan, Ingkells
  
  (Note you can do hit and run on Thor with spears, but you're simply playing the game of doing as much damage as possible before Thor runs you over. Which is sadly what most people classify as the typical spin2win mindset)
  
  

  Quote from sakraycore;563993:

  what about scythe evie?

  
  
  I didn't really mention Scythe Evie as her main problem is that a large portion of her main skills are still capped at Rank A (at last check). That and snap/blink takes way too much stamina to make them "overpowered". Scythe DPS is about the same as Sword Lanns when I last checked (Spear > Staff/Hammer > Karok/Sword/Scythe > Sword Fiona). Most people who actually play Scythe like the class anyways, everyone who plays to be overpowered usually just jumps onto the staff bandwagon.
• Oizen wrote on 2011-08-25 01:11

  Quote from Claudia;563997:

  Notably no mention of that.
  
  Also, I find it funny how Oizen thinks all Evies are just failed Lanns.
  Grow up, most of us play Evie because a.) [S]fanservice[/S] and b.) We like her playstyle.
  
  Do you have a problem with that, or are you just jealous?

  
  Please don't put words in my mouth.
  
  I never said all. People are drawn to the overpowered class. In this case, Evie.
  
  
  

  Quote from MareneCorp;564003:

  Then, what would be the better Lann, Sword or spear? I personally like spears because I can time most of my dodges right and still do pretty nice damage, whereas Swords people say have a higher survival rate (no-skiller?).
  
  Edit: If everyone thinks it's swords, I'm going to tryand grab a party of Spears and prove that wrong. :mad3:
  
  Seriously though, which one is better?

  
  Swords.
  
  Why? Because you can't do any damage when you're dead, and swords survivability on raids (which again are apparently the only thing that matters in this game) is so much higher then spears.
  
  

  Quote from Invertex;564043:

  
  I didn't really mention Scythe Evie as her main problem is that a large portion of her main skills are still capped at Rank A (at last check). That and snap/blink takes way too much stamina to make them "overpowered". Scythe DPS is about the same as Sword Lanns when I last checked (Spear > Staff/Hammer > Karok/Sword/Scythe > Sword Fiona). Most people who actually play Scythe like the class anyways, everyone who plays to be overpowered usually just jumps onto the staff bandwagon.

  
  Pretty much.
  
  Staff evies do a hell of a lot more DPS then scythes, but there is no drawback on this like there is for lann. Staff evie's have amazing survivability, is the only character that can use mid range attacks, the only character who can stun bosses by freezing or just a trap, the only character who can heal themselves, the only character who has a dodge that consumes NO stamina, and its much more effective then rolling for spear lann. Is there anything she can't do?
  
  This is why most games don't mix all the mage classes into one like this, you get an overpowered result.
• MareneCorp wrote on 2011-08-25 01:16
  Well, just happened to use an enchant scroll on my Gales and it worked, tried another on my Serenity and it killed the dur -_-. Looks like I'm going to have to get more money to work out this hybrid thing...
• sakraycore wrote on 2011-08-25 02:06

  Pretty much.
  
  Staff evies do a hell of a lot more DPS then scythes, but there is no drawback on this like there is for lann. Staff evie's have amazing survivability, is the only character that can use mid range attacks, the only character who can stun bosses by freezing or just a trap, the only character who can heal themselves, the only character who has a dodge that consumes NO stamina, and its much more effective then rolling for spear lann. Is there anything she can't do?
  
  This is why most games don't mix all the mage classes into one like this, you get an overpowered result.

  
  
  Uh staffies's dodge costs a ton of stamina unless you don't mean her sparrow. The regular jump can't do anything at all. And amber costs way too much stamina and during amber you can't even do anything and you can't stay in amber forever.
  Blink is a much much more powerful dodge imo, but ofcourse staffies can't have it all...
  
  For soloing I still think scythe is better, blink is just too good to pass on.
• foreignreign wrote on 2011-08-25 08:46

  Quote from sakraycore;564507:

  The regular jump can't do anything at all.

  
  
  Someone doesn't abuse Klaus/Titan's Weakness debuff as an Evie!
• Oizen wrote on 2011-08-25 08:52

  Quote from sakraycore;564507:

  Uh staffies's dodge costs a ton of stamina unless you don't mean her sparrow. The regular jump can't do anything at all. And amber costs way too much stamina and during amber you can't even do anything and you can't stay in amber forever.
  Blink is a much much more powerful dodge imo, but ofcourse staffies can't have it all...
  
  For soloing I still think scythe is better, blink is just too good to pass on.

  
  The normal dodge without sparrow does more then spear lann's roll, thats the point I was trying to make. Didn't say anything about amber. My point was Lann has to chose between being able to live, or decent DPS while both types of evies have high survivability and decent DPS.
  
  she's op.
• paladin wrote on 2011-08-25 23:17

  Quote from OizenX;564862:

  The normal dodge without sparrow does more then spear lann's roll, thats the point I was trying to make. Didn't say anything about amber. My point was Lann has to chose between being able to live, or decent DPS while both types of evies have high survivability and decent DPS.
  
  she's op.

  
  
  And yet we still see more lanns floating around
  Remember staffs needed this
  Staffs were fully gimped till the update
  Sword lann-harder to play but doable
  Spears-even harder to play then swords but hell alot of potenial
  Their not gonna change evie since alot of people who started off as horrible staff will be pissed off
  and nexon i bet makes alot of money off of inners for evie/fiona
• sakraycore wrote on 2011-08-25 23:47
  I still don't see how the fail evil jump is any better than the Lann roll.
• foreignreign wrote on 2011-08-25 23:54

  Quote from sakraycore;565340:

  I still don't see how the fail evil jump is any better than the Lann roll.

  
  
  If you're at the edge of a boss' reach (which should be a lot of the time) you can hop backwards and be fine.
  
  Takes no stamina while Lann's takes god damn 30. You actually gain stamina when you use it.
  
  Weakness + Evie hop = teleportation
  
  Can dodge a pinpoint attack like Titan's spear throw easily (although there are admittedly only a few of these in-game)
  
  Can be boosted via Flying Sparrow
  
  I don't see how Evie's jump isn't better than the Lann roll.
• whocares8128 wrote on 2011-08-26 00:18
  Lann's roll moves further and gets out of the way faster, from what I recall. Plus, "hopping" (since it's not really a dodge) is the only way to cancel focusing/spell-casting.
  
  And honestly, who cares if Evie can "teleport" when she has weakness? It's not like you can do any damage without stamina.
  
  Disclaimer:
  I'm not trying to argue against Evie being OP. Even before the update, I found bosses much easier to fight against with a staff than my Fiona. The only limitation to the old staff Evie (imo) was the lag time in between the burst damage via Firebolt/Blind Arrow. But often, throwing out 2 Firebolts and 2 Blind Arrows spelled the end for a boss (non-raid), and this could all happen within 10 seconds or so. A party full of staff Evies was so ridiculous that it was funny.
• foreignreign wrote on 2011-08-26 01:20

  Quote from whocares8128;565378:

  And honestly, who cares if Evie can "teleport" when she has weakness? It's not like you can do any damage without stamina.

  
  
  Which other characters can fly across the map with 0 stamina in the blink of an eye?
  
  Which other character, after being hit by Klaus' Weakness, can actually escape from his range to safety so that they don't get comboed by his Weakness spam?
  
  Whether or not you can't attack with weakness is irrelevant considering that Evie's hop when she has the debuff essentially makes her the character with the highest survivability when it's on, bar none. Saying that her ability to abuse Weakness is useless just because she can't attack while the debuff is on (which is obvious) is a dumb point.
• whocares8128 wrote on 2011-08-26 02:52
  I'm simply pointing out that getting Weakness doesn't give her any real advantage in the fight. You're better off not getting the debuff, and it's rather easy to avoid receiving it as a Staff Evie (you're more likely to pick it up from your party members). Of course, the behavior of hopping with no stamina is more like a bug than an intended feature anyway.
  
  If you're going to bring up survivability, why not attack her shields, which absorb at least a hit before going away, only to reappear within 30 seconds or so?
• foreignreign wrote on 2011-08-27 01:08

  Quote from whocares8128;565594:

  I'm simply pointing out that getting Weakness doesn't give her any real advantage in the fight.

  
  
  Two characters have Weakness on them and are right next to the boss. An Evie and a Fiona.
  
  The Evie teleports to the other side of the room where the boss isn't at. The Fiona is left with the boss staring at them. Both still have Weakness on them. Are these characters on even footing?
  
  How is this not an advantage.
  
  Saying "you might as well not get hit by Weakness" is like saying "you might as well play perfectly all the damn time because you have no excuse not to play perfectly all the time."
• Oizen wrote on 2011-08-27 03:35
  You guys are acting like Lann can't get the weakness debuff....
  
  You're argument about that is incredibly stupid.
  
  K well, spear lanns play in close range where they piratically rub their bodies against bosses, usually in spin2win, now their dodge takes 30 stamina, has no invincibility at alll, while with low stamina after spinning. You'll be dead before your respiration rate even gives you the stamina to roll. If you do manage to roll, you'll most likely be clipped by the attack, and be sent to your death.
  
  Now staff evie plays entirely at mid range, and its easier to monitor your stamina with evie's attack and range, and their basic hop takes no stamina, since you're already a good distance away from the enemy, this hop will get you out of harms way. If not, then get in your mana amber and you're safe. (bawww but what if its broken) Flying sparrow backwards.